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Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

404 pointsby etimbergalmost 2 years ago

40 comments

mulmenalmost 2 years ago
The most troubling thing about this to me is Stockton Rush’s cavalier attitude toward ageism [1]. In considering young college graduates as uniquely “inspirational” he set them up for a lifetime of guilt. I don’t think age or race has any place in inspirational calculus. I’m uncomfortable with how comfortably he dismisses submariner veterans as “old white guys”.<p>Engineering is a discipline that requires experience and guidance. The young learn from the old. In this case accomplished engineers missed a chance to do rewarding work with young engineers and young engineers have to live with the guilt of killing their crew.<p>This is a lesson the entire tech industry would do well to meditate on. Especially when we call ourselves engineers.<p>[1]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;4dka29FSZac&amp;t=5m2s" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;4dka29FSZac&amp;t=5m2s</a>
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bilekasalmost 2 years ago
What really bothers me about the coverage of this, and I&#x27;m not totally anti media etc, was that nobody mentioned on the fact that the tracking system lost contact also.<p>It was only mentioned that the communications was lost, if there had of been media mentioning that the tracking device also lost contact, I think a lot of people would have recognised straight await that it was a critical collapse. No deep gauge device loses contact from distances &lt;4000M unless it was exploded.<p>I feel bad for the families given some false hope, I didn&#x27;t personally think they would be found, but did believe they were suffering a far worse way to go.
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methodicalalmost 2 years ago
Besides the &quot;what about this other accident with 500 victims!!!&quot;, &quot;these people are dumb&quot;, and the &quot;look how they ignored safety!&quot; comments, I can&#x27;t help but be amazed at how events like this make people crawl out of the woodworks spouting complete falsities as if they&#x27;re facts. I&#x27;ve seen so many boneheaded comments over the last few days that I don&#x27;t even know how to list all of them out, from people saying that Titanic is &quot;relatively shallow&quot; in the ocean, to people speculating that the passengers may have drowned as opposed to being &#x2F;literally&#x2F; instantly vaporized. I think, per usual, this whole event has gone to show just how quickly (some) people assume an authoritative position in areas they have absolutely no expertise or knowledge about. Rant over.
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js2almost 2 years ago
&gt; OceanGate’s submersibles are the only known vessels to use real-time (RTM) hull health monitoring. With this RTM system, we can determine if the hull is compromised well before situations become life-threatening, and safely return to the surface. This innovative safety system is not currently covered by any classing agency.<p>Given that Stockton Rush risked and lost his own life, he must have believed these words. He ignored pleas from others in the industry that what he was doing was unsafe. What was he thinking?<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.ph&#x2F;yBrpk" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.ph&#x2F;yBrpk</a>
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accrualalmost 2 years ago
Here are a couple of quotes I pulled from the USCG press release:<p>&gt; &quot;debris is consistent with a catastrophic implosion of the vessel&quot;<p>&gt; &quot;1600 feet (487 meters) from the wreck of the Titanic&quot;<p>&gt; &quot;it is a smooth bottom&quot;, &quot;there is no wreckage of the Titanic in the area&quot;<p>&gt; &quot;size of the debris field is consistent with an implosion in the water column&quot;<p>&gt; &quot;there doesn&#x27;t seem to be any connection between the noises and the location of the debris on the seafloor&quot;
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lamontcgalmost 2 years ago
Well that&#x27;s better than slowly asphyxiating or dying of hypothermia, probably didn&#x27;t even know what hit them.
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hawk_almost 2 years ago
I am curious how we (the society) justify the shared costs incurred in searching for people involved in such a reckless mission.
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aurizonalmost 2 years ago
The most likely first failure is the window. At that instant a rapid turbulent fill event would occur. The outside pressure and the hole diameter will provide a calculable interval for the internal volume to fill. At 12,000 feet = 800 atmospheres, this would be on the order of 1&#x2F;20th of a second, with intense crush&#x2F;shear forces = instant death as perceived. That interval can be related to the speed of sound and wavelength to make a variable frequency &#x27;chirp&#x27; that would be of low to higher frequency. The low frequency would be in the low hertz as an estimate. At the same time inner pressure and temperature would rise to 800 atmospheres and a temperature a little above ambient. The density of water is around 800 times that of air = 800 times the weight of water would enter compared to the weight of the air within. Local temperature would prevail, increased a little by the work of compression of that air to higher pressure(quite high in concept, but quenched by 800 x mass of water. Thus the sound will not be very loud or high in frequency. A sphere of C4 will make a compression wave at somewhere over 500,000 atmosphere propagating at about 4000 meters&#x2F;second = fourier square wave containing all the odd order harmonics all the way down = heard round the world. Any transient inrush plasma would be swamped and mixed with cold water = transient and of little consequence. Banging? One would hope nobody would dare bang the window, but it is conceivable they might have banged the hull in desperation if the window did not crack to attract attention? Did the noise cease at some point? or is the noise still hearable = not them?
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SirMasteralmost 2 years ago
What I don&#x27;t understand is, if it imploded, why didn&#x27;t the boat hear the implosion? Surely that would be really loud. Louder than the 15 min audio ping that the boat is normally listening for.
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bambaxalmost 2 years ago
If it did implode in multiple pieces it means the experts were right; many said that carbon fiber was a poor choice because while it&#x27;s light, it breaks like glass, contrary to steel which tends to &quot;open&quot; slowly.
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jameslkalmost 2 years ago
Tragic result, just as it were for the Titanic. The parallels between the hubris of what was said about each craft&#x27;s capabilities, to the outcomes of blindly believing in it, down to even the irony in the names &quot;Titanic&quot; and &quot;Titan&quot; seems sadly poetic. Rest in peace.
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mikeyousealmost 2 years ago
It&#x27;s not clear from the headline - but the debris field is on the ocean floor and was found via the USGC&#x27;s remote operated submersible vehicle.
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activiationalmost 2 years ago
I&#x27;m surprised millionaires&#x2F;billionaires didn&#x27;t do better research on that company before going on the trip
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ClassicOrginalmost 2 years ago
Based on this it seems pretty likely that it immediately imploded and the ‘banging’ was from the Titanic debris itself.
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somedangednamealmost 2 years ago
A former US Navy submariner recently released a video about the Titan and the issues he could see with its design:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=4dka29FSZac">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=4dka29FSZac</a>
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dansoalmost 2 years ago
I wonder if U.S. agencies (e.g. the Navy) had picked up the sound of the implosion days ago, back when the Titan was said to have lost communication, and knew all this time that the Titan had likely already been destroyed. But there&#x27;s no incentive for them to publicly say anything, as it would hint to their underwater surveillance capabilities. And the &quot;rescue effort&quot; is good practice for their crews.<p>I watched most of the press conferences and don&#x27;t think I heard anyone ask about it. But hearing loud noises across thousands of miles is certainly within the U.S. military&#x27;s capability.
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seattle_anonalmost 2 years ago
Stockton Rush (OceanGate&#x27;s CEO) was known in the Seattle tech community [0]<p>My understanding (very much not first hand) is that he was seen as an expert in the specific engineering disciplines necessary to safely build and operate deep sea submersibles like Titan.<p>He was also apparently a father to members of the Seattle tech community, who are no doubt grieving at the moment.<p>Please remember that, for some members of the HN community, this one hits close to home.<p>[0] Talk at last year&#x27;s GeekWire Summit: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=9PGpjEDc96I">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=9PGpjEDc96I</a>
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carbinealmost 2 years ago
Lots of talk about carbon fiber, ofc. But also seems relevant that that this seems to be one of the only (or truly the only?) deep sea submersibles with a non-spherical personnel chamber.
JennaDawn20almost 2 years ago
Does anyone know if they had any “deep-sea” or “submersible” cameras recording the expedition and can recover those cameras&#x2F;footage to help in knowing what happened?
nakedneuronalmost 2 years ago
I can&#x27;t help but thinking about how tempting it must be for a person who is willing to end their life to perish in an blink of an eye (Germanwings Flight 9525 comes to mind).<p>I also wonder if it was the ideal place for Mr.Titanic to rest his bones. He surely was used to having a small gun on his numerous subsea expeditions in order to avoid a miserable end in case of being trapped. Maybe that was indeed the perfect plan after an adventurous life like his certainly was.<p>Not wanting to come off as impious. However, I know I am..<p>Also some inspirational title... <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;The_Wreck_of_the_Titan:_Or,_Futility" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;The_Wreck_of_the_Titan:_Or,_Fu...</a> His wife died some years ago.
renewiltordalmost 2 years ago
Well, that&#x27;s a conclusion that I suppose many expected. It&#x27;s rather tragic, yeah. What I can&#x27;t say I expected is the gleeful tone from:<p>- class warfare enthusiasts because the passengers were rich<p>- regulation enthusiasts because the pilot espoused weakening them<p>You&#x27;ll see this online when a pedestrian or cyclist gets hit by a driver (along with &quot;right of way doesn&#x27;t mean anything when you&#x27;re dead!&quot; and &quot;was he wearing a helmet?&quot;)<p>At some point, the personal tragedy for me is realizing that a lot of people in this world really take great pleasure in others&#x27; suffering even if those people have done them no harm. Makes me want to use the Internet less, if I&#x27;m being honest, since I don&#x27;t want to encounter this kind of glee at others&#x27;s suffering.
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tivertalmost 2 years ago
Why has this sub been so hard to find?<p>I keep seeing reports that they&#x27;ve search an area &quot;the size of&quot; Massachusetts or Connecticut. Shouldn&#x27;t OceanGate have recorded the exact coordinates where it was released and then been able to localize its possible location to a small area around that by modeling ocean currents or something? My understanding the Titan was designed to sink to the bottom and could only move very slowly under its own power. I know OceanGate was cocky and cut a lot of corners, but I just can&#x27;t believe they wouldn&#x27;t have the exact release location recorded <i>somewhere</i>, even if it was just an automatic track log on their ship&#x27;s GPS navigation system.
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mrabcxalmost 2 years ago
Probably better to go away in an instant rather than sitting and waiting for the inevitable to happen.
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stef25almost 2 years ago
Anyone know what happens to the body when suddenly exposed to a biblical amount of pressure? I&#x27;m morbidly curious about what state the bodies would be in.
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artdigitalalmost 2 years ago
This is incredibly sad to hear. I’ve been following this closely and had my hopes up after noises were detected in 30 min intervals, which matches emergency procedure to alert rescue teams. Even got me to watch the documentary on BBC about it, and now I’m even more sad.<p>But also confused why we learn only now that the US Navy already detected an anomaly that’s matching an implosion
sillyinseattlealmost 2 years ago
WSJ.com is now reporting that a top secret US navy system did detect the implosion - on site commander was informed.
Certhasalmost 2 years ago
It is notable how much news-coverage this received (for understandable reasons [1]) relative to the almost simultaneous disaster in the Mediterranean [2], where a shipwreck killed hundreds of people.<p>[1] What springs to mind: Dramatic search action well suited for live blog coverage; psychological impact of the idea of people stranded in a submarine for days; And of course the average person here is probably a lot closer to taking a holiday trip in a submersible than to taking a refugee boat across the Mediterranean.<p>[2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;2023_Messenia_migrant_boat_disaster" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;2023_Messenia_migrant_boat_dis...</a>
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firecallalmost 2 years ago
I was reading the article, and it talked about if the bodies could be located and recovered. Which made me wonder:<p>What actually happens in an implosion like this?<p>Does the whole sub squash down, like stomping on a tin can? (Apologies for the graphic metaphor)<p>Does buckle in the middle, tear open and flood?<p>I heard it would be instant, which is a mercy for them.
gcgfromhellalmost 2 years ago
Scott Manley had some things to say on this matter that were not revolting, trite or giving nauseating tech-bro vibes <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=qdz9vcSFBqw">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=qdz9vcSFBqw</a>
psychphysicalmost 2 years ago
RIP to these guys, yes it was a risky trip. But it was into international waters and they were AFAIC explorers.<p>Stuff like this can not be done without risk.<p>Hopefully future subs will have more safety features.
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pengarualmost 2 years ago
I hope we get some photos of the debris field including intact titanium rings and end caps.<p>Would make a great long-overdue post for bustedcarbon.com
fnord77almost 2 years ago
so let&#x27;s say you&#x27;re in an implosion event at 5000 ft.<p>Do you feel it? The brain stays alive for 20 seconds after your heart stops. I would imagine your skull doesn&#x27;t get crushed because fluids are only a tiny bit compressible with that much pressure<p>I imagine your ribcage would collapse, stopping your heart immediately
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bunga-bungaalmost 2 years ago
The conversation around this event is incredible. Why can’t I do something risky and deal with the consequences myself (i.e. death)?<p>I want to climb K2 alone in shorts, don’t cry my loss. I’ll die doing what I love.
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MuffinFlavoredalmost 2 years ago
Will the company be sued or did the riders (customers) sign a waiver?<p>what will the insurance payout look like? will there be one to the victims?
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jprdalmost 2 years ago
The other day, the Hellenic Coast Guard idled nearby while hundreds of people suffered and then drowned.<p>I hope at least these souls died instantaneously from an implosion when Comms first dropped.
tivertalmost 2 years ago
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bbc.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;live&#x2F;world-us-canada-65967464?ns_mchannel=social&amp;ns_source=twitter&amp;ns_campaign=bbc_live&amp;ns_linkname=6494841bf2e5745fd8a78300%26%27Landing%20frame%20and%20a%20rear%20cover%20from%20the%20submersible%27%20among%20the%20debris%262023-06-22T17%3A25%3A47.784Z&amp;ns_fee=0&amp;pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:bdcc76ef-88b0-4781-ac13-4a44dec7419b&amp;pinned_post_asset_id=6494841bf2e5745fd8a78300&amp;pinned_post_type=share" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bbc.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;live&#x2F;world-us-canada-65967464?ns_mc...</a>:<p>&gt; We have just had an update from dive expert David Mearns, who says the debris includes &quot;a landing frame and a rear cover from the submersible&quot;.<p>&gt; Mearns is a friend of passengers aboard the Titan.<p>&gt; Mearns has told the BBC that the president of the Explorers Club (which is connected to the diving and rescue community), provided this new information.
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ironcurtainalmost 2 years ago
A billionaire with surveillance tech manufacturing, French ex-military spook, and a wealthy Pakistani with British government connections. Possible foul play? Nope, not a chance. Everyone’s taking about a joystick.
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WhereIsTheTruthalmost 2 years ago
This story is weird to me<p>Considering the current geopolitical weather and the presence of Russian submarines, you&#x27;d think the US army would be able to locate the missing object in no time, even with a triangulated location, they failed<p>Worrying times
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jrs235almost 2 years ago
Complete speculation: They wanted to see something very very upclose through the glass. While getting in close they managed to scrap some wreckage compromising the carbon fiber body leading it to break and implode. The banging noises are some of the equipment dangling on the Titanic wreckage and blowing in underwater currents occassionally.
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lgatsalmost 2 years ago
In the realm of the sea where no light dares to tread, An iron giant named Titan its journey had led, Built to traverse the blue deep, a mission clear, To explore the Titanic&#x27;s ghost, obscured by fear.<p>Titan, oh Titan, the sea&#x27;s most stalwart knight, Bathed in cold silence, yearning for daylight, A sub of sturdy steel and human determination, Set forth to reveal the past&#x27;s doomed creation.<p>A journey steeped in echoes, through waters unknown, Into the abyss, where sun&#x27;s grace is never shown. Titan searched for the Titanic, a ghost in the haze, Through the endless night, in a chilling ballet&#x27;s craze.<p>Beneath the waves, where pressure sways like the titan&#x27;s fist, Where the sea&#x27;s lament whispers a chilling tryst, The skeletal Titanic sleeps, in a shroud of mystery, A timeless tale of man&#x27;s hubris and history.<p>Titan neared its quest&#x27;s end, the Titanic in sight, A monolith of memory, veiled in the eternal night. But the sea&#x27;s cruel clasp tightened, a relentless grip, As the ghost ship waited in stoic fellowship.<p>A sound then shattered the silence, a mournful sigh, Titan under the pressure, its limits defy. Its hull creaked, it shivered, it began to groan, And in the darkness, Titan was suddenly alone.<p>In its quest for discovery, to the abyss, it fell, Imploded in silence, no one to bid farewell. Titan and Titanic, now silent together, A testament to humanity&#x27;s reach and tether.<p>Two steel giants resting deep below the foam, Far from the surface light, far from home. The Titan&#x27;s tale echoes through the seafarer&#x27;s lore, A lesson from the deep, from the ocean floor.<p>A tale of two Titans, of steel and cold precision, Both met their end in a haunting collision. Under the crushing sea, they found their tomb, In the silent world, where no roses bloom.<p>Their names will echo, in the salt-tinged spray, Titan and Titanic, forever bound in a tragic ballet. A dance in the deep, where light has no reign, In the realm of the sea, where triumph and tragedy reign.
评论 #36442697 未加载