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US Congress doubles down on claims of illegal UFO retrieval programs

312 pointsby fork-bomberalmost 2 years ago

56 comments

tptacekalmost 2 years ago
Ezra Klein just did a long interview with Leslie Kean (a popular author and Coast to Coast AM guest) about her article in &quot;The Debrief&quot; --- where it went, after the Washington Post wouldn&#x27;t run it on her time schedule --- about David Grusch:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;2023&#x2F;06&#x2F;20&#x2F;opinion&#x2F;ezra-klein-podcast-leslie-kean.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;2023&#x2F;06&#x2F;20&#x2F;opinion&#x2F;ezra-klein-podcas...</a><p>It does not make Kean and Grusch&#x27;s claims sound a lot more credible. Some of Kean&#x27;s sources are proponents of things like psychic teleportation. Another is a Stanford biologist who started producing debunked materials science papers about allegedly alien artifacts (that turn out to look a lot like ordinary machine parts). No source she names has firsthand knowledge of &quot;non-human origin&quot; technology; it&#x27;s all people who heard something who heard something. At one point she cites the now-discredited &quot;Gimball Video&quot;. There&#x27;s no good answer to the question of &quot;if Grusch is right about any of this, why did the DoD allow him to say it publicly&quot; --- she has a particularly harebrained theory that DoD classification rules allow Grusch to describe this stuff in generalities as long as he doesn&#x27;t cross a line of specificity, which, just, no.<p>But people love talking about this stuff, so you can&#x27;t blame Rubio for indulging it.
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theptipalmost 2 years ago
This is a push from Congress to force programs into the open that are secretly capturing Russian&#x2F;Chinese UAVs right? Folks on the committees are angry that China is trolling US Navy vessels with UAVs and this isn’t being publicized.<p>The “non-earth” origin is the smokescreen, “exotic” covers foreign secret research projects?<p>Something a bit convoluted like this is orders of magnitude more probable in my world model. (Basically, the prior “aliens exist and have been covered up” rounds to zero, so given we are observing this public action, even extremely unlikely explanations could explain it.)
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haswellalmost 2 years ago
I’m not saying that I buy into these narratives, but in the interest of curiosity and for sake of argument…<p>Let’s say that there are real ET craft, and let’s say that the US government has indeed been retrieving and studying them for decades.<p>If such analysis unlocks technology breakthroughs of the kind that would solve say, energy problems, the government now has the problem of sitting on secrets that it has no legal pathway to introduce to the public, and no way to explain without somehow coming clean.<p>If any of this is real, the kind of legislation described in the article seems like one of the few ways they can start to introduce this information to the public. This makes it sound like they know what this is and they need to establish the channels and narratives to discuss it publicly (even if “this” is all a cover for misuse of funds that has nothing to do with ET craft).<p>Everyone is focused on “what is this distracting us from?”, and maybe that’s all that this is, but even if this is misdirection, there’s something going on that’s making elected officials and reputable military types speak publicly about UAPs.<p>That by itself is a pretty interesting signal if nothing else.<p>It could also all be bullshit, and either way, I’m pretty curious to see where this goes.
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MoSattleralmost 2 years ago
The government has previously used UFOs to divert attention.<p>&gt; Over half of all U.F.O. reports from the late 1950&#x27;s through the 1960&#x27;s were accounted for by manned reconnaissance flights&#x27;&#x27; over the United States, the C.I.A. study says. &#x27;&#x27;This led the Air Force to make misleading and deceptive statements to the public in order to allay public fears and to protect an extraordinarily sensitive national security project.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;1997&#x2F;08&#x2F;03&#x2F;us&#x2F;cia-admits-government-lied-about-ufo-sightings.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;1997&#x2F;08&#x2F;03&#x2F;us&#x2F;cia-admits-government-...</a>
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simmanianalmost 2 years ago
I like to entertain myself with the idea that perhaps what&#x27;s driving the recent spotlight on UFOs is not that we are seeing&#x2F;detecting them, but that we are detecting more and more of them.<p>Maybe governments around the world have always known about objects flying&#x2F;floating around. And that was fine because there are many natural causes that could explain these blips on radar. Many weather phenomena or man made objects could explain people &quot;seeing&quot; UFOs. Buzz Aldrin famously saw glowing objects flying around in space but he does not necessarily believe they have ET origin.<p>But recently, there&#x27;s simply way more of these objects everywhere, and nobody knows for sure what these are. This worries some people because, well, what if they&#x27;re Chinese spy balloons or drones? Remember when the US military shot down a couple balloons some time ago and it made the news?<p>This is a potential threat to the national security and it makes sense that they have put together teams for the retrieval of these objects. The government may not believe they have ET origin, but they now see them more as potential threat to the national security.<p>Of course, I would definitely find it enjoyable and exciting if there is some &quot;otherworldly&quot; intelligence behind these objects.
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lend000almost 2 years ago
All the people here claiming new types of drones and secret programs dating back decades have clearly never worked in defense. Most of the US military, the best funded in the world, is <i>decades</i> behind the private sector on computing technology -- it&#x27;s honestly unthinkable to me that their propulsion technology would be decades (or centuries) ahead. The best engineers and scientists have taken Silicon Valley jobs paying 5-10x more since the late 90&#x27;s.<p>And why are we acting like this is a new phenomenon? It&#x27;s been going on since at least the 1940&#x27;s, when there should be little doubt that we didn&#x27;t have technology to explain it.<p>While I&#x27;ve never seen anything personally, and my anecdote is meaningless to others, I have a family story dating back to ~1969-1970 that either means a bunch of sane family members are completely nuts, or that (in their case, a classic silver &quot;flying saucer&quot;) are real, prevalent, and not things that can be prosaically explained.
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nickelcitymarioalmost 2 years ago
While I understand and appreciate the aspects of the bill that offers protection for whistleblowers, I don&#x27;t understand cutting all funding for reversing such technology.<p>If it exists, don&#x27;t we want to understand it ASAP? Regardless of whether it&#x27;s alien in origin or not, why in the world wouldn&#x27;t we want to study potentially advanced technology?
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taraharrisalmost 2 years ago
If they&#x27;re lying, they have a moral obligation to declassify everything they know.<p>If they&#x27;re telling the truth, they have a moral obligation to declassify everything they know.<p>Official secrecy is fundamentally incompatible with the needs of an informed public capable of voting intelligently within a democratic republic.
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apialmost 2 years ago
I have heard these types of claims many times. The people making them seem more credible at first glance this time, but I am firmly in the camp of being deeply skeptical until I see concrete proof presented.<p>That being said, I don’t completely discount the possibility. One answer to the Fermi paradox is that there isn’t one, and I can think of many reasons multiple governments would try to keep stuff like this secret.
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JumpCrisscrossalmost 2 years ago
This sounds more like the discovery of a money pit than anything extraterrestrial.
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shadowgovtalmost 2 years ago
In terms of using support by Senators to influence one&#x27;s priors on whether UFOs might be real: it&#x27;s worth noting that Senator Rubio also harbors doubts about the certification of the election results in 2020.<p>One might wonder &quot;Why is this Congress treating this topic seriously when previous Congresses did not&quot; and conclude this Congress is more willing to treat outlandish claims as credible, not that the claims are more credible.
UncleOxidantalmost 2 years ago
&gt; would immediately halt funding for any secret government or contractor efforts to retrieve and reverse-engineer craft of “non-earth” or “exotic” origin.<p>If that were going on (and I&#x27;m skeptical) why would you want to stop it?<p>&gt; <i>Funding would also be cut for “the development of propulsion technology, or aerospace craft that uses propulsion technology, systems, or subsystems, that is based on or derived from or inspired by inspection, analysis, or reverse engineering of recovered [UFOs] or materials.”</i><p>Again, why the hell would you stop funding for development of propulsion tech that might be of alien origin? You can bet that if China or Russia had a craft like this they&#x27;d be trying to reverse engineer it.
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rtlxcvalmost 2 years ago
For me, this article does not make Rubio&#x27;s position clear. Previously, he had been involved in the UFO industrial complex:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;reason.com&#x2F;2022&#x2F;11&#x2F;15&#x2F;the-military-ufo-complex&#x2F;" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;reason.com&#x2F;2022&#x2F;11&#x2F;15&#x2F;the-military-ufo-complex&#x2F;</a><p>I&#x27;m surprised that congress finally wants to stop the gravy train, unless this is another refined misdirection scheme. Probably a lot of that money went into covert operations.
gregw134almost 2 years ago
These &quot;UFOs&quot; are in my opinion probably new type of drone.<p>Video of &quot;UFO&quot; over Poland: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=4WZN0T_54xY">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=4WZN0T_54xY</a><p>Pentagon video: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=M6Wmap12xm0">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=M6Wmap12xm0</a><p>Picture of crashed orb in Mexico: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.vice.com&#x2F;en&#x2F;article&#x2F;bvmm7a&#x2F;mysterious-metallic-orb-falls-on-mexico-may-contain-valuable-information-meteorologist-says" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.vice.com&#x2F;en&#x2F;article&#x2F;bvmm7a&#x2F;mysterious-metallic-o...</a><p>My theory is that these spheres are spinning and move using the Magnus effect (the effect that causes a spinning soccer ball to curve). Theoretically, if you have gyroscopes inside the sphere, and you can find a way to transfer the gyroscopes&#x27; spin to the sphere, the sphere will spin in a controllable direction and move where you want it to. Lift can be achieved by filling it with helium.
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kwertyoowiyopalmost 2 years ago
Still looking for evidence.<p>Any evidence at all.<p>Anyone? Bueller?
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narratoralmost 2 years ago
This is a good thread to catalog red herring techniques.<p><pre><code> * The government has previously used X to divert attention therefore there is no X. * The person saying X is an accomplice of X and cannot be trusted. * Demanding the answer to the question about X is dangerous because national security. * X is a distraction from something bad Trump did. * X is a distraction from something bad Biden did. * X is a distraction from the recent Supreme Court decisions. * X could never be covered up by the government - refuses to believe copious whistleblower testimony about X with no reason than it&#x27;s impossible for the government to be able to cover X up.</code></pre>
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conceptionalmost 2 years ago
There sure is a lot of UFO talk around the same time audio of a former president laughing about all the treason he’s committing. Probably just a coincidence.
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jl6almost 2 years ago
Still seems most likely this is a bunch of people feeding off each others’ hype and speculation.<p>There are a dozen explanations more plausible than aliens.
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booleandilemmaalmost 2 years ago
Is there anyone else that just doesn&#x27;t believe any of this ufo stuff whatsoever? The whole thing seems like a massive waste of time and resources when we have real problems that need solving.<p>Where is the evidence of any of this stuff?
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wnevetsalmost 2 years ago
Conspiracy theories have gone completely off the rails in this country. For the longest time I thought flat earthers were trolling like the birds aren&#x27;t real meme but seeing this crap reach congress is sad.
drumheadalmost 2 years ago
Its gone past the point where people can just brush it off as the rantings of a crank. Congress are troubled about it. If there are organisations gathering alien tech without oversite and covertly, then imagine what they could do with it if they managed to activate or replicate it? They could sell it to enemies, use it for themselves, subvert governments. Congress have probably concluded that as well and are rightly alarmed.
RadixDLTalmost 2 years ago
Aliens watching the US Congress like... &#x27;Wow, even we didn&#x27;t think they&#x27;d go this far with the cover-ups!&#x27;
at_a_removealmost 2 years ago
I like to consider just listing as many alternatives as I could manage, in order of decreasing likelihood (as per my personal estimation):<p>1) Some kind of psy-ops from within our own government, meant to mess with a different government or a branch of our own government. Maybe its own citizens. You can get eleven-dimensional chess with this pretty quickly.<p>2) We have grabbed someone else&#x27;s UAVs. Maybe China, maybe Russia.<p>3) We have grabbed the UAVs of an unsuspected party which a surprise technological edge we would never expect: the Wakanda Hypothesis. We don&#x27;t even know that we&#x27;re in a game and that we&#x27;re losing.<p>...<p>N-3) Aliens have emerged from local gas giants and are curious about us. Jupiter? Saturn? Neptune? And so on. Probably not Pluto.<p>N-2) Generation ships or &quot;sleepers&quot; from another solar system are on some sort of grand tour of the Orion Arm, working their way out. We&#x27;ve been noticed and the occupants awakened. Aliens? AI? Maybe there is no difference by then.<p>N-1) Aliens within a light sphere about 0.45 * (First UFO Year - 1895) heard our radio and really hustled to get here with a hefty blueshift.<p>N) The captured vessels are either FTL-capable or brought here on a larger ship with such capabilities. All bets are off.<p>There is another possibility which I think is often ignored, after #3. It&#x27;s sci-fi, but it isn&#x27;t physics-breaking the way FTL is. What if the craft are from a parallel earth? I dislike it, but not as much as I dislike FTL. It doesn&#x27;t even require aliens. A parallel history where we got the ball rolling even a few decades earlier might end up with a civilization a hundred or a thousand years ahead of ours. I wouldn&#x27;t bet money on anything higher than #2 on my list, but I still think that if we are going to conjecture about aliens, we might as well do parallel Earths, too.
alex_youngalmost 2 years ago
This is an opinion post, not news. Here is the author&#x27;s twitter feed. Looks to have a serious fixation on UFOs dating back a long time: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;MvonRen&#x2F;" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;MvonRen&#x2F;</a>
golem14almost 2 years ago
This seems to be a great opportunity to recommend the short story “on patrol” by Stanislaw Lem [1]<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.m.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Tales_of_Pirx_the_Pilot" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.m.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Tales_of_Pirx_the_Pilot</a>
Simulacraalmost 2 years ago
What I find most fascinating about aliens and UFOs is that they always seem to be heading for America. If a UFO arrived from another galaxy it might choose any place to land, but talk is always America-centric. Do other countries feel so UFO special?
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throwaway743almost 2 years ago
News Nation follow up on Rubio interview with Ross Coulthart. Discussion of implications.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;4uY62OmDfLg" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;4uY62OmDfLg</a>
rekttraderalmost 2 years ago
FAA tells you to report UFOs to BAASS a private company.
johneaalmost 2 years ago
Well, if Marco Rubio said it, it MUST be True!!!<p>Like Chinese bioweapons spreading worldwide and the Cheeto having his election &quot;stolen&quot;. He&#x27;s a real fact checker that guy...<p>(of course, if you want to consider naturally spreading infections, the flu has been an annual chinese bioweapon for hiundreds of years)
throwawaaarrghalmost 2 years ago
I just realized why this is bullshit. If such crafts existed, they wouldn&#x27;t only seem to appear in the USA, and somebody in some backwater somewhere on earth would have leaked proof about them by now.<p>But there&#x27;s never clear pictures or videos or physical evidence provided. This is just another scam.
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m3kw9almost 2 years ago
Really hope they produce something other than blurry videos with 8bit shadows(tall green man), blurry standard disc looking flying object, again on 70s vhs quality, and “riveting” interviews of space alien tech recoveries. It’s been a clown show so far this century.
nashashmialmost 2 years ago
I have reason to believe many of these UFO movement claims. What makes this possible is closely related to the results of supercooling helium to zero degrees. Figure out why the latter happens and you will figure out how the UFOs can move around so quickly.
nameforuseralmost 2 years ago
If you are interested in learning more about the history of UAPs and claims of NHI abductions I suggest checking out the YT channel Eyes on Cinema. Some of the hypnosis recall videos on there are terrifying.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;@EyesOnCinema">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;@EyesOnCinema</a><p>&quot;Barney Hill&#x27;s highly disturbing hypnosis session regarding his alien abduction experience in 1961&quot;<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=G0er29WQITo">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=G0er29WQITo</a><p>I also see a lot of interesting stuff on <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;richgel999" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;richgel999</a> He might even be on HN!<p>Additionally listen to some of the interviews with Professor Garry Nolan. There is a lot of nonsense and grifters in the UFO world, how do you know this or that isn&#x27;t a disinformation campaign? It&#x27;s hard to know what is genuine and who is just trying to sell their book or promote their podcast. Garry Nolan once said something like UFOlogy is not a science and to seriously study the UAP phenomenon it would need to become a serious field of scientific investigation i.e. creating a journal scientists can submit papers to for peer review. I would avoid people like Steven Greer or the History Channel&#x27;s Ancient Aliens.<p>I have always been a &quot;show me the evidence&quot; type person. I was an atheist since I was really young. I hope this comment helps anyone who is curious about learning about this subject. I&#x27;m not trying to convince you aliens are coming to Earth or &quot;make you a believer&quot;.
Stranger43almost 2 years ago
I am wondering how much of this is fueled by the change in the word alien from simply meaning foreign to meaning extraterrestrial and people misreading the former for the latter.<p>The research into foreign weapon technology is in one of those gray areas where not only does some of those activities border really close to industrial espionage against companies in potentially allied countries, or might contradict stated US State Department positions on international law it&#x27;s usually classified and spoken off in hushed tones<p>It&#x27;s very likely that an alien(as in foreign) technology evaluation program exists without there being anything extra-terrestrial about it as legalese can trail popular changes to terms by several decades. And that mentions of those in wider circles might fuel some rumors and misconceptions among those &quot;who wants to believe&quot;.
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nimbiusalmost 2 years ago
So to temper expectations, the article only cites Republican Marco Rubio has having any real inquisitive drive to unearth clandestine UFO knowledge.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Dead_cat_strategy" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Dead_cat_strategy</a><p>Chances are excellent Rubio might be doing this to try and draw attention away from several state supreme court rulings striking down bans on transgender care and drag shows incepted and championed by republicans. If not that, then to draw attention away from the spectacle of republican cooperation during successful debt ceiling negotiations.
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einpoklumalmost 2 years ago
Call me when we other countries supposedly find such UFOs.
tabtabalmost 2 years ago
Send the nuttiest of politicians to investigate, it keeps them distracted from important stuff.<p>(If they are ET, Congress will miss them anyhow.)
waffletoweralmost 2 years ago
I think it is possible that politicians are using this issue to get screen time, regardless of the veracity of UFO claims.
sacnoradhqalmost 2 years ago
While I may navigate a Willie Nelson-approvable nudist hippie Magic Mystery Machine, I&#x27;d prefer to inform these politicians to please fuck right off with the X-Files conspiracy theories. Even with the most wacky and fanciful personalities not totally fried by acid and weed, selling this disinformation with the transparent prospect of personal enrichment through books, paid speaking junkets, pressers, merchandizing, and other content products would be an insulting, disrespectful farce and abuse of office. I would recommend voters consider firing such grifting fools (including Rubio, Santos, Manchin, and Sinema) out of office because at least prostitutes provide an essential and honest service. A child could pick higher integrity, more informed, and less corrupt COTUS candidates by (random, unvetted) sortition of Baltimore city employees. This sort of institutional corruption unfortunately signals drift towards systemic empire decline and effective collapse long prognosticated (20+ years ago) by great philosophical historians such as Chalmers Johnson. When too many of the soldiers and police officers say &quot;Fuck this bullshit, I&#x27;ll be a farmer with fixed fortifications in a remote area on my own.&quot; that previous age has sailed and the Vikings and Conquistadors aren&#x27;t far behind.
markus_zhangalmost 2 years ago
My concern is that such research may fall into private funding, i.e. completely dark to citizens.
dopa42365almost 2 years ago
friendly reminder to take your meds
1970-01-01almost 2 years ago
And there is still no physical evidence of them. These UFOs must be made of pure dark matter.
i-use-nixos-btwalmost 2 years ago
I don’t believe such projects actually exist, and my two theories are a bit whacky, but one of:<p>1. They’re actually used as ways of laundering money out of government pockets without congressional oversight. The whole “oh but it’s top top secret” excuse is an easy one.<p>2. The positive and negative attention are all part of a plan to convince enemy nations that the US has access to incredible technology. I mean, if I wanted to spook Putin, I’d probably also sign a bill condemning the work on the trillion megaton nuclear bomb. What trillion megaton nuclear bomb? The one we’re condemning!<p>But let’s pretend it is real.<p>What is the point of congress withdrawing such funding? Elon steps in, and then such tech is in the hands of a private company rather than the government. How is that a good thing for the US govt?<p>It sounds (to my naive British mind, which knows very little about congress or its stance on various things) that it’d have been preferable to give a timeline for these projects to present themselves to congress. Immediately condemning them and convincing whistleblowers to present them instead just seems like a backwards way of doing it.
93poalmost 2 years ago
I find it pretty wild that members of congress are having to draft bills to pull out any secrets that may be happening in government programs so secret that even they don&#x27;t know about it. It speaks very loudly to how little accountability there is to where tax payer dollars are going.
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vanillaxalmost 2 years ago
What ever China has, is because it stole it from US public&#x2F;private companies. So if China is trolling us, its with our own tech. This puts US in a equally worse spot. Share that you have secret high tech items, at the expense of admitting CCP agents also brought it back home...
tzsalmost 2 years ago
One theory that would explain this pretty much perfectly is that Marco Rubio is an alien operating here under cover to get the government to stop trying to reverse engineer some technology that his people accidentally lost here.<p>I always thought there was something a bit off about Rubio...
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stuckinhellalmost 2 years ago
I believe in aliens&#x2F;ufos&#x2F;&quot;something else out there&quot; thanks to Graham Hancock&#x27;s interesting book Visionary.<p>Do I trust the government to tell me the truth about them at a time where institutional trust is at all time low?<p>No freaking way.
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skcalmost 2 years ago
These &quot;UFOs&quot; always crash land around the USA.<p>Kind of curious.
fsn4dN69eyalmost 2 years ago
Let&#x27;s look at this as rationally as possible:<p>People have been claiming to see UFOs for years, ever since the popularization in mass media with the start of &quot;the war of the worlds&quot;. In nearly all cases, even (at the time) credible sightings were advanced weapons programs. Additionally, with the proliferation of everyone having access to relatively high quality cameras, the amount of &quot;legitimate&quot; sightings has dropped dramatically.<p>Now, what has changed? We have several videos, that are public knowledge, that show objects moving in ways that no level of technology we have now can demonstrate.<p>This video and the other two related are the only official videos we currently have. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=lWLZgnmRDs4">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=lWLZgnmRDs4</a><p>These objects were recorded as early as 2004. These objects were recorded not by a loony bin boy cried wolf UFO-ologist but by US Navy airmen.<p>Ok, maybe they are a camera issue? e.g. one can imagine it&#x27;s a bird or a balloon or an object that shows up as moving much faster than reality, or something to do with parallax&#x2F;tracking error with the IR (infrared)? That would be believable, especially if it&#x27;s a single recording, solo pilot, new equipment. The issue with this is that in addition to the declassified IR videos, we saw this happen multiple times, in multiple locations, on different aircraft, with multiple pilots present in the aircraft at the same time making the same visual (with eyeballs) confirmation, radar confirmation, IR.<p>Ok, maybe it&#x27;s an advanced hologram program&#x2F;electronic warfare test&#x2F;drill or something? Which was my next guess, but the visual confirmation rules out electronic warfare and in addition to visuals, IR, we also have radar bouncing off - not just recorded by the aircraft, but recorded by the entire USS Nimitz carrier group that was in the area at the time - hence real, physical objects. And, again, it wasn&#x27;t just one signature, in fact the reason they were up there to begin with was because of the unidentified objects in the airspace.<p>Ok, maybe it&#x27;s just a balloon or an experimental drone by the US or its rivals. The issue here is that the physics described are not just &quot;next-gen&quot; a la F35 but some sort of groundbreaking physics that would change the way we do anything.<p>From The New York Times: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;2017&#x2F;12&#x2F;16&#x2F;us&#x2F;politics&#x2F;unidentified-flying-object-navy.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;2017&#x2F;12&#x2F;16&#x2F;us&#x2F;politics&#x2F;unidentified-...</a><p>&quot;For two weeks, the operator said, the Princeton had been tracking mysterious aircraft. The objects appeared suddenly at 80,000 feet, and then hurtled toward the sea, eventually stopping at 20,000 feet and hovering. Then they either dropped out of radar range or shot straight back up.&quot;<p>Fravor reported that he saw an object, white and oval, hovering above an ocean disturbance. He estimated that the object was about 40 feet long. Fravor and another pilot, Alex Dietrich, said in an interview that a total of four people (two pilots and two weapons systems officers in the back seats of the two airplanes) witnessed the object for about 5 minutes. Fravor says that as he spiraled down to get closer to the object, the object ascended, mirroring the trajectory of his airplane, until the object disappeared. Hovering 50 feet above the churn was an aircraft of some kind — whitish — that was around 40 feet long and oval in shape. The craft was jumping around erratically, staying over the wave disturbance but not moving in any specific direction, Commander Fravor said. The disturbance looked like frothy waves and foam, as if the water were boiling.<p>Fravor began a circular descent to get a closer look, but as he got nearer the object began ascending toward him. It was almost as if it were coming to meet him halfway, he said. Fravor abandoned his slow circular descent and headed straight for the object. But then the object peeled away. “It accelerated like nothing I’ve ever seen,” he said in the interview. He was, he said, “pretty weirded out.” The two fighter jets then conferred with the operations officer on the Princeton and were told to head to a rendezvous point 60 miles away, called the cap point, in aviation parlance. They were en route and closing in when the Princeton radioed again. Radar had again picked up the strange aircraft. “Sir, you won’t believe it,” the radio operator said, “but that thing is at your cap point.” “We were at least 40 miles away, and in less than a minute this thing was already at our cap point,” Commander Fravor, who has since retired from the Navy, said in the interview.<p>Thus, they are able to move on their own, not just floating in the wind (balloon, birds, launched radar reflectors), they&#x27;re quite large, and can move large distances in short amounts of time. Additionally, no exhaust ports, no exhaust fumes, no control surfaces of any kind were observed. If we actually break down and analyze the movement based on the recording, we get results that are beyond physics. From the University of Albany - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov&#x2F;pmc&#x2F;articles&#x2F;PMC7514271&#x2F;" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov&#x2F;pmc&#x2F;articles&#x2F;PMC7514271&#x2F;</a><p>Even the most conservative and minimum models for acceleration give us ~70g with maneuverability, which is more than double what we have, and only in a rocket-like manner. Not without exhaust, control surfaces, and non-linear movement.<p>&quot;It is difficult to draw any definitive conclusions at this point regarding the nature and origin of these UAVs other than the fact that we have shown that these objects cannot be of any known aircraft or missiles using current technology. We have characterized the accelerations of several UAVs and have demonstrated that if they are craft then they are indeed anomalous, displaying technical capabilities far exceeding those of our fastest aircraft and spacecraft.&quot;<p>Ok, maybe it&#x27;s a secret weapons program we don&#x27;t know about. The issue with this is that we&#x27;d see a ton of people &quot;disappearing&quot; from public life and essentially vanishing, similar to what happened during the Manhattan Project. Physicists, mathematicians, materials scientists would seemingly end their career, stop publishing, and go off the grid to live and work at some facility. Currently, we haven&#x27;t seen an exodus&#x2F;brain drain of any level in the fields we would expect towards &quot;nothing&quot; - if anything, everyone&#x27;s going into finance and adtech. Not to mention, this kind of stuff would be &quot;Theory of Relativity&quot; tier, not just cutting edge stealth tech.<p>The only other thing I can imagine is that it&#x27;s a coordinated government attempt to spread disinformation regarding our military capabilities to our adversaries. Even then, it doesn&#x27;t explain what the objects were.<p>I really really don&#x27;t want to be a &quot;UFO guy&quot; but maybe even this mindset is part of the problem. Given all of this information, I don&#x27;t understand why so many are so quick to dismiss any sort of theory, because as far as I see it anything terrestrial is exponentially more likely than aliens, but I can&#x27;t come up with any ideas for these objects to have originated on Earth.<p>PS. there&#x27;s also the the whistleblower which the article references: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;nymag.com&#x2F;intelligencer&#x2F;2023&#x2F;06&#x2F;ex-intel-official-government-hiding-alien-tech.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;nymag.com&#x2F;intelligencer&#x2F;2023&#x2F;06&#x2F;ex-intel-official-go...</a> and a 2017 NYT article describing the program itself: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;2017&#x2F;12&#x2F;16&#x2F;us&#x2F;politics&#x2F;pentagon-program-ufo-harry-reid.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;2017&#x2F;12&#x2F;16&#x2F;us&#x2F;politics&#x2F;pentagon-prog...</a>
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qwertyuiop_almost 2 years ago
“Hey look over there”. Nothing but politics of distraction from grave corruption.
tedunangstalmost 2 years ago
I don&#x27;t need to believe in UFOs to believe the government would spend tons of money trying to retrieve one.
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ydnaclementinealmost 2 years ago
I believe in UFOs, because a UFO is believing in me somewhere out there
WalterBrightalmost 2 years ago
I&#x27;d rather Congress indulged in this fantasy than the fantasy budgets Biden gets passed.
DrThunderalmost 2 years ago
If you believe the government is capable of covering this up for decades then you must also believe they&#x27;re just as capable of lying about UFO&#x27;s existing for some other reason.<p>I heard some guy saying they were actually demons, which I found quite funny&#x2F;entertaining. Supposedly these aliens smell like sulfur badly. Maybe aliens&#x2F;demons are the same thing? I guess we&#x27;re gonna need the Doom Slayer.
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pixel3234almost 2 years ago
Anything to distract public from important things! Last week it was sub, now UFO. Did anyone even noticed Watergate^2?
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bsaulalmost 2 years ago
This whole narrative on UFO coming from US Gov at the exact same moment the fear around covid has faded is so suspicious.. It&#x27;s really really hard not to see it as a pathetic attempt at keeping the population in a state of mass hysteria.<p>(yes i know this sound completely paranoïd, but i have absolutely no other idea why they would do that)
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