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The ancient Roman secret to concrete resilience in seawater (2017)

142 pointsby kveealmost 2 years ago

14 comments

AlbertCoryalmost 2 years ago
There actually IS a contemporaneous source on how to do it, without exact proportions, unfortunately. They didn&#x27;t know <i>why</i> it worked, of course.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Vitruvius" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Vitruvius</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.mit.edu&#x2F;2023&#x2F;roman-concrete-durability-lime-casts-0106" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.mit.edu&#x2F;2023&#x2F;roman-concrete-durability-lime-cas...</a><p>&quot;pozzolanic material such as volcanic ash from the area of Pozzuoli, on the Bay of Naples.&quot; They shipped this all over the Empire.<p>Now we have a better idea why it got better in seawater, instead of deteriorating.
smackeyackyalmost 2 years ago
It woyld be funny to me if it turned out the secret was urine instead of seawater. One of the bits of received wisdom i got from my grandfather was peeing on your hands toughened them up. He claimed it as a bit of advice he was given on his first day chopping hardwood for a steam engine at a tin mine. I figured it as a first day prank like being sent to find headlight fluid in modern times but he said it was true.<p>Before major industrialisation, people used what was at hand. I think the peeing on your hands thing has been long debunked but in roman concrete it may have worked.
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pengarualmost 2 years ago
We have a tendency to promote premature failure of seawater-exposed concrete structures by reinforcing them with rust-prone materials.<p>I don&#x27;t think any amount of secret Roman concrete recipes is going to prevent crumbling apart due to the expanding forces of rotting rebar.
nunuvitalmost 2 years ago
Old article from 2017. More advances were published earlier this year:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.mit.edu&#x2F;2023&#x2F;roman-concrete-durability-lime-casts-0106" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.mit.edu&#x2F;2023&#x2F;roman-concrete-durability-lime-cas...</a>
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steve918almost 2 years ago
The problem with modern concrete falling apart prematurely is usually the use of rebar as a reinforcement.
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saqadrialmost 2 years ago
It is fascinating how some ancient techniques had remarkable properties even though they didn’t have the tools or science to explain it back then. I recently learnt that ancient concrete has self healing properties because of the reaction of air&#x2F;water with lime and volcanic ash.<p>Makes you wonder how far we can get with trial and error.
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Oarchalmost 2 years ago
Stories about Roman concrete appear to flood the Internet about once per year. No idea why...<p>See also: seaweed reduces cow farts.
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throw0101calmost 2 years ago
See also &quot;Why was Roman concrete so durable?&quot; from January 2023:<p>* <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=34280239">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=34280239</a>
al_be_backalmost 2 years ago
sadly no concrete evidence on the recipe - not surprised. Romans were excellent engineers but as so often, we&#x27;re left with little documentation in this area (sciences). The humanities (law, politics, literature etc) has fared better, with way more surviving records.
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CoastalCoderalmost 2 years ago
The story mentions volcanic ash. If the Roman recipe became popular again for marine use, I wonder how much ash is currently available without terrible mining operations.
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chaosjevilalmost 2 years ago
Relevant tidbit: hot mixing with quicklime was key for this self-healing property[1], as it allowed the creation of small lime clasts across the material.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;arstechnica.com&#x2F;science&#x2F;2023&#x2F;01&#x2F;ancient-roman-concrete-could-self-heal-thanks-to-hot-mixing-with-quicklime&#x2F;" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;arstechnica.com&#x2F;science&#x2F;2023&#x2F;01&#x2F;ancient-roman-concre...</a>
satellite2almost 2 years ago
I&#x27;m completely new to ancient Roman civil engineering. So I ask completely innocently,could it be survivor bias?
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Projectibogaalmost 2 years ago
I hope they can perfect this and use it in places like coastal New Jersey.
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leocalmost 2 years ago
Obligatory mention of leading concrete-engineering YouTuber <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtube.com&#x2F;@TylerLey">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtube.com&#x2F;@TylerLey</a> . He’s discussed Roman concrete in eg. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;U86tlUiFM1s" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;U86tlUiFM1s</a> .