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The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

266 pointsby vwoolfalmost 2 years ago

29 comments

UtopiaPunkalmost 2 years ago
There&#x27;s an interesting interview with a designer of SimCity, where he discusses parking:<p>Geoff Manaugh: While you were making those measurements of different real-world cities, did you discover any surprising patterns or spatial relationships<p>Librande: Yes, definitely. I think the biggest one was the parking lots. When I started measuring out our local grocery store, which I don’t think of as being that big, I was blown away by how much more space was parking lot rather than actual store. That was kind of a problem, because we were originally just going to model real cities, but we quickly realized there were way too many parking lots in the real world and that our game was going to be really boring if it was proportional in terms of parking lots.<p>Manaugh: You would be making SimParkingLot, rather than SimCity.<p>Librande: [laughs] Exactly. So what we do in the game is that we just imagine they are underground. We do have parking lots in the game, and we do try to scale them—so, if you have a little grocery store, we’ll put six or seven parking spots on the side, and, if you have a big convention center or a big pro stadium, they’ll have what seem like really big lots—but they’re nowhere near what a real grocery store or pro stadium would have. We had to do the best we could do and still make the game look attractive.<p>Source: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;bldgblog.com&#x2F;2013&#x2F;05&#x2F;sim-city-an-interview-with-stone-librande&#x2F;" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;bldgblog.com&#x2F;2013&#x2F;05&#x2F;sim-city-an-interview-with-ston...</a>
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damnesianalmost 2 years ago
&gt;You could imagine a world in which streets were pedestrianized and where we planted trees and gardens and in what is currently space reserved for parking, and closed streets, outside schools, so kids can have places to play.<p>I would love to see a LOT more of this in urban centers.<p>I live in a college town that is about the same size as Iowa City. Iowa City has taken the step of closing off their downtown and making it mostly pedestrian space. It&#x27;s incredibly nice to explore the area on foot. Our city has considered the same idea but pedestrianizing our downtown has been so controversial when it has been discussed, it hasn&#x27;t come up for over a decade- mayors are scared to death to touch it.<p>Part of the reason is poor past civic planning would make it very expensive to correct. The main conduit through the downtown business district is also the major East-West artery of town, making the street one of those dreaded &quot;stroads-&quot; a street in the sense that there is heavy commercial and residential presence, resulting in a LOT of local foot traffic and stops all day long; mixed with traffic that just wants to get through downtown to somewhere else. So half of the traffic is looking for parking and the other half is running red lights to get somewhere else as fast as possible.<p>There have been, predictably, many incidents involving cars, pedestrians and bicycles. But not one inch moved on what&#x27;s become the 800lb gorilla. I don&#x27;t think a solution is even possible.
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elijahtalmost 2 years ago
I live car-free in NYC. A large appeal of NYC to me was not having to park. I don&#x27;t ~mind~ driving, but I absolutely hated having to deal with finding parking when I lived in other cities. Parking generally makes me feel stressed (competition for free spots), or makes me pay (using something like SpotHero makes it easy to find a spot, but costs me).<p>It&#x27;s not even just major cities either- I&#x27;m frequently in a college town in Illinois and parking downtown is a nightmare, and can easily add 10 minutes to your trip time, AND it&#x27;s paid. Visiting a city I&#x27;m not familiar with can add some stress too as you don&#x27;t know the best parking, unlike cities you are familiar with.<p>NYC has problems of it&#x27;s own (trains are generally reliable, but tend to have delays right when you need them), but for $33 a week I can get to most major neighborhoods in 30 minutes, walking straight to my destination. Add in $40 for a couple cabs when I prioritize a quicker trip, and I have amazing access to my city for less than $100&#x2F;week.
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gwbas1calmost 2 years ago
I lived for a few years a 5 minute walk from downtown Palo Alto. I still used my car, but significantly less. I can&#x27;t tell you how wonderful it was to walk, instead of drive, for a random trip to a restaurant. It was even better when going to the bar.<p>I think if we also focused on walkability for residential development, we could cut down on car use. Even though I now live in suburbia, I made sure there were a few places I could walk to before I bought my house.
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TeeWEEalmost 2 years ago
Come to the Netherlands. Sell your car. Buy a bike.<p>A car is not really a status symbol here. Its more like a liability.
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squidgyheadalmost 2 years ago
ClimateTown has a video about this today! <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=OUNXFHpUhu8">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=OUNXFHpUhu8</a>
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unsignedintalmost 2 years ago
Ah, parking... It&#x27;s a topic that resonates with me deeply. I must admit, I&#x27;ve declined some get-togethers simply because I knew parking would be a challenge. There&#x27;s nothing more disheartening than realizing the only option is to find street parking in an unfamiliar neighborhood, and the added stress of searching for a spot, especially parallel parking, just adds to the frustration. This stress often reaches a point where the first thing I do when heading to a new place is to conduct a thorough Google Maps search, examining the aerial view and Street View to identify available parking options. Of course, if public transportation is a viable alternative, I try to opt for that, but unfortunately, it&#x27;s not always efficient and can significantly increase travel time.
0xbadcafebeealmost 2 years ago
It is insane how much actual land is used for ground-floor parking. You could house every homeless person in the USA with like 1&#x2F;1000th of the available parking space, and park all the moved cars in vertical parking structures. But, geez, that costs <i>money</i>, and political clout, and homeless people don&#x27;t exactly have a lobbying group.
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falcolasalmost 2 years ago
I think you need to go one level deeper: People needing to move non-trivial distances for periodic tasks shapes everything. Cars, and thus car parking, come about because of this need.<p>Even before cars existed, roads and parking (such as hitching posts and stables) still existed because people needed to move.<p>And even bicycles (electric or not) need parking too. There are startups dedicated to creating automated bike parking garages to limit theft.
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wizofausalmost 2 years ago
&gt; parking is perhaps the greatest determinant of whether people decide to make a trip in a car or by some other means<p>Surely that can&#x27;t be true in general - I would think the quality&#x2F;convenience&#x2F;cost of the alternative would be by far the biggest factor (but yes, you could argue that&#x27;s rolling multiple factors into one).<p>But as an example, plenty of offices I&#x27;ve worked at over the years have offered free or cheap parking to all staff, with sufficient space for virtually everyone, yet less than half of the staff chose to drive simply because getting there by car was slower&#x2F;more expensive than the alternatives (typically train or tram, and a few, like myself, that much prefer our pushbikes!). Actually at my current job in a CBD&#x2F;downtown building, nobody drives despite the high availability of parking, but it is quite expensive to use (~$18 a day I believe).
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glonqalmost 2 years ago
A few of my memories from working in the parking biz:<p>1. We were bidding smart parking meters to a city in California who insisted that, per the ADA, they should be accessible to the blind. We suggested to them that blind folks tend to not park or drive cars very often.<p>2. Seeing damage photos from a customer&#x27;s parking meter where somebody had inserted dynamite up the coin&#x2F;ticket return tray. The explosion buckled the body of the machine, but incredibly the reinforcement and the lock held. The [paper] money inside got destroyed, though.<p>3. The angry customer reaction when a co-worker&#x27;s &quot;Get bent, loser&quot; dummy&#x2F;debug message accidentally found its way into production.<p>4. Having to certify the accuracy of a parking meter&#x27;s onboard clock because it printed a boat launch ticket that was used as evidence in the case of a guy who killed his pregnant wife and dumped her in the SF Bay.
ultra_nickalmost 2 years ago
A land value tax would fix this.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.thebalancemoney.com&#x2F;what-is-a-land-value-tax-5205929" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.thebalancemoney.com&#x2F;what-is-a-land-value-tax-520...</a>
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supportengineeralmost 2 years ago
We have an abundance of parking and a shortage of housing, it&#x27;s too bad we don&#x27;t have a way to quickly setup housing (even temporary) in parking areas. Most parking is already located near other utilities so they would already be close by. To start with, we could require every parking lot over a certain size provide basic amenities like public restrooms with showers and water fountains.
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FlyingSnakealmost 2 years ago
I know this is US-by-default site but does parking really shape everything around us (most of the humanity)? What about South America or Africa?<p>From my experience in living in Asia, USA and Europe, it might only be applicable to USA.
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mikrlalmost 2 years ago
I visited metro Detroit for the first time on Saturday and the parking situation was abysmal but this is perhaps understandable in a large city. I thought my small city in Canada was bad!<p>We couldn’t even park downtown since it appears you need to book it in advance and the trip was somewhat spontaneous. I just ended up pulling over (by a no stopping sign ha) on a quiet side street and setting the GPS back to Windsor.
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ubermonkeyalmost 2 years ago
My whole life I&#x27;ve struggled with the need for cars in the places I&#x27;ve lived. Very few US cities have the right infrastructure to go car-free, and the places I personally have lived feature such unrelentingly hot summers that going anywhere without AC is pretty much a nonstarter.<p>But it exists as a low-grade &quot;well this sucks, but I can&#x27;t do much about it&quot; fact of existence, like hangnails or tax audits. Then, last year, I bought a motorcycle in lieu of us getting a second car, and I found that EVEN WITH the hassles of weather and limited cargo, and EVEN WITH factoring in the need to wear protective gear, the dead solid CERTAINTY that I can park in seconds without being far from my destination makes the bike my preference 80% of the time.<p>Only 100F or driving rain will make me PICK the car if the logistics of the trip don&#x27;t demand it for other reasons. The agility, ease of parking, and absurd fuel economy are all huge wins, plus it&#x27;s always more fun that driving.
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mdrznalmost 2 years ago
Relevant 1 day old Climate Town&#x27;s video: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=OUNXFHpUhu8">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=OUNXFHpUhu8</a> &quot;Parking Laws Are Strangling America&quot;
francisofasciialmost 2 years ago
&gt; catastrophically mismanaged the way we provide parking in this country &gt; it’s not properly priced<p>It is was interesting how complex the parking situation can be. So many factors come into play when planning a trip to raise my anxiety levels. Factors include: likelihood of availability given your timing, safely of vehicle, price (anywhere from free to $60 a day), time limits, proximity to desired location.<p>I think I would like some sort of reservation system, but I am sure that would come with other unforeseen issues, like rick people reserving everything at all times.
anideazzzalmost 2 years ago
You could mandate underground parking lots for every new structure. Then liberate access to that parking via an app so that not only the above the parking lot folks take advantage of it.
glonqalmost 2 years ago
I spent the first decade of my career in that industry, working on the hardware and software inside parking meters. It gave me invaluable exposure to embedded devices, RTOS, electronics, mechanical design, UX, and wired&#x2F;wireless networking. Everybody else I graduated with in college took tame gov&#x27;t and enterprise jobs, which would have bored me to tears.
nonsensezzzalmost 2 years ago
I haven&#x27;t had a car since 2015 and I don&#x27;t plan on getting one. It&#x27;s a waste of money, time and energy. If a country as big as china can have a solid train network. Why can&#x27;t we? What does our biggest competitor do that we can&#x27;t do?
xnxalmost 2 years ago
Seems like parking is a side effect for people&#x27;s preference for larger houses and yards. Convince people to live in smaller houses and share walls with their neighbors, and the parking situation would change dramatically.
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itronitronalmost 2 years ago
us should probably be capitalized in the title, (i.e. US)
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jasinjamesalmost 2 years ago
&gt;&gt; he was saying that his house never used to flood and he was blaming it on an enormous parking lot that had been constructed and the displacement of water falling on that parking lot, and how that was contributing to the stormwater issue in his neighborhood.<p>The hardest day’s work I ever did was soil percolation testing as a summer CivE intern. Some municipalities have a rule for new development where any rain that is expected to fall on a property must be absorbed by the property, so a percolation test (“perc test”) gives you a number you can use to figure out how much of your landscape you need to keep undeveloped in order to absorb the needed rainfall.<p>In the municipality I was in, a test involved digging a cylinder hole roughly a foot in diameter and a few feet deep, then periodically dumping in a painters bucket of water. You’d then record how many inches of the dumped water was absorbed every ten minutes or so over the course of the next few hours. It’s not the most scientific test: the tests don’t normalize for recent rainfall, for one, but it’s part of the rules. For the property we were testing (summer camp), me and two other people dug twelve holes throughout the property and staggered our water pours so we could walk in a loop and continuously take measurements. The kicker was that there were only two water spouts on the property to fill the buckets, so the whole day consisted of lugging water buckets up and down hills in the mosquitos and humidity so we could finish the tests.<p>More broadly, though, an interesting consequence of water runoff rules is that it shapes how you design a home. Since too much house meant the remaining grass isn’t considered sufficient drainage, architects are disincentivized from having any roof overhang: since the covered roof area on small lots is constrained anyway, you make more money if you put house under all of it! This is also a reason you’ll see houses with gravel driveways: gravel driveways are good for water percolation.<p>&gt;&gt; When somebody decides they want to open a new restaurant or open a new building, instead of saying it needs X number of spaces, we could say, let’s look at the parking stock and find accommodations that are already there. Office parking could be used at night for residential parking. That dentist’s office parking lot could become the parking lot for a restaurant.<p>If I recall correctly, the town I was working in had some limited version of this. There could be sharing between businesses whose operating hours differed considerably, but these rules were piecemeal and didn’t help a whole lot in normal situations like when several similar businesses are nearby (i.e. restaurants). In the municipality I was working in, there was a table in the regulations mapping the business type (restaurant, medical, retail, etc.) to the number of parking spaces required per unit area (not per expected occupants). You actually need *more* parking per area for a bar than you do for a restaurant, because it’s standing room.<p>&gt;&gt;The first is that many jurisdictions in this country have parking requirements for new housing. That places a geometric and financial constraint on the types of things that can be built”<p>These requirements aren’t just things like “you need space for two cars for this house”, but also things like “the corner between the driveway and the street must be rounded by at least a radius R”, which when combined with all of the other geometric rules about the house footprint, setbacks (distance to the edge of property you can’t build in, which themselves sometimes vary depending on what edge of the property is on a street) etc, it becomes a bit of a jigsaw puzzle.<p>I don’t want to keep rambling too much but I think what I’m trying to communicate is that whenever you see a parking lot or building which looks like it made with some horrible, obvious design flaws, the engineer who designed it was fully aware of there being a better alternative. By the time you apply all the federal, state, and local rules, the number of knobs an engineer can actually tune for parking or building layout are surprisingly limited. Whether you think this is a good or bad thing is up to you.
GrumpyNlalmost 2 years ago
This is a real USA problem.
Avlin67almost 2 years ago
same as dark matter
johneaalmost 2 years ago
&quot;Why does parking make us so crazy?&quot;<p>I wonder who he means by &quot;us&quot;?<p>I guess, in this modern world, making &quot;us&quot; crazy doesn&#x27;t require going very far...
kelseyfrogalmost 2 years ago
What else can be done? Universal lot sharing agreements, shared parking, and annulling reserved parking stipulations.<p>Especially the later is a structural factor in the oversupply of parking. It&#x27;s the parking equivalent of circuit-switching networks - which naturally results in the oversupply of circuits. Mutatis mutandis for all things parking.<p>If one is to admit that these played a role in the oversupply of parking, then it&#x27;s imperative to annul them to make progress towards right-sizing parking supply.
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xyzelementalmost 2 years ago
Parking is impactful but is ultimately shaped by human preferences that are revealed by the choices people make.<p>For example, you can live in NYC car-free, but many (most?) people move out to the burbs once they have a family, partially because lower density + car enables better family life.<p>What works well for a single-and-dating young professional, doesn&#x27;t work as well for a dad. If ample parking makes family life easier, that is probably a pretty good tradeoff.
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