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Stay or Leave: Manager Admitted I am on PIP because quota

39 pointsby mmrryyalmost 2 years ago

16 comments

eschneideralmost 2 years ago
Ugh. The OP asks that question like they have a choice. They're walking dead. OP is gonna be out at the end of the PIP, so he should start looking for another job. I mean, stay until they find something new or b) get the boot, but they're dead there.
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kelnosalmost 2 years ago
Assuming the manager is actually telling the truth about why the employee was put on a PIP (maybe not a safe assumption?), then I think there are two important questions:<p>1) Is the quota for a number of people who need to be put on PIPs, or a number of people who need to be fired?<p>If it&#x27;s the latter, the employee is effectively already fired; they&#x27;re required to fire N people, and they&#x27;re going to find a way to claim employee failed the PIP, no matter what. Obviously the employee will not be able to answer this question with any amount of certainty.<p>2) Are the goals that need to be achieved to pass the PIP unambiguous? That is, is it objectively obvious that the goal has been passed or failed?<p>If any of the goals are ambiguous, management could use that ambiguity to claim some goals haven&#x27;t been achieved when the employee believes they have been, and use that to justify firing them.<p>Of course, the manager could also just by lying about why the employee is on a PIP. Maybe they do actually have a performance issue, but the manager is too much of a wuss to flat-out tell the employee this. I agree that it&#x27;s suggestive that the manager seems to be setting the PIP&#x27;s goals in such a way that they&#x27;re relatively easy to achieve, but that might not be the whole story.<p>Either way, a company that has periodic PIP (or firing) quotas isn&#x27;t a company I&#x27;d want to work at, so I&#x27;d start looking for a new job even if I&#x27;d still end up being retained after the PIP is over. Ideally I&#x27;d have a start date at a new place after the PIP is done, so I could explicitly give that reason for quitting, even though my job there would be (at least for the time being) secure.
fourseventyalmost 2 years ago
This guys boss picked him to be on the performance improvement plan. Even if his boss was forced to pick someone because of quota, the fact that he was picked must mean he was at the bottom of the pack in terms of performance. My advice would be to be humble enough to admit that the performance can be improved and take ownership of that fact and not make excuses like &quot; my boss put me on notice because of a quota, i guess i should quit&quot;
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yanslookupalmost 2 years ago
Doesn&#x27;t pass the smell test. Google managers should be sharing the areas that OP is underperforming with examples. It will be clear. There is no &quot;My manager told me to arbitrarily pick someone&quot; with no reason given.<p>My best guess is this person is underperforming and the manager is too focused on head count preservation to notice an underperformance issue. To them, their manager is forcing them in to this but not for the reasons they are sharing.<p>Either way, that&#x27;s a bad manager, likely should be making plans to leave.
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AndrewKemendoalmost 2 years ago
This is a perfect example of why we need a union for tech engineers. The “if you were better” argument or other reasons that people in tech love to use doesn’t apply here - this is a pure capital Vs labor power dispute.<p>This kind of bullshit and “sorry nothing I can do” response from a line manager is unacceptable to just be ok with - especially when it’s purely driven by rent seeking.
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nine_zerosalmost 2 years ago
When engineers complain about poor management practices in the tech industry, and it sounds unbelievable, this post should be an example of how bad things are in this industry.<p>For engineers, the only way to survive is play the game but stop caring about the company because they don&#x27;t care about you.
freeopinionalmost 2 years ago
There are many businesses that could not define a PIP because they have no idea how to define performance. You can find one of these and hide for the rest of your career. If your PIP has milestones like &#x27;write 10 emails per day&#x27; or &#x27;participate in 10 hours of meetings per week&#x27;, maybe you already found one of those companies. If you yourself struggle to define what &#x27;performance&#x27; means in your job, isn&#x27;t that a red flag all by itself? You can use this as an opportunity to understand the expectations of your employer (or at least your employer&#x27;s agents). Or you can take this as a final confirmation that you are not achieving any personal fulfillment in this job. If you have to ask strangers, I sense you are quite lost in your current job.
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jrd259almost 2 years ago
The company that employs me has a stack ranking system that determines raises, but does not <i>mandate</i> PIP even for the lowest-ranked, unless they genuinely are not meeting expectations. I would advocate looking for a more employee-friendly employer. Any firm with this kind of policy most likely has other awful policies
franczeskoalmost 2 years ago
When I was at Amazon, the newly hired team lead was incompetent and insecure, so this person ruled the team by fear - PIP&#x27;ed people trigger happy (myself included). HR did nothing, even though this was a recurring behavior even after I left. It was just flagged, that is not possible to PIP people without actual prior performance issues and informal conversations to address them. Fast forward to today - the person is still there and eventually was promoted. In EU, where labour laws are much stronger it&#x27;s not as effective, but it&#x27;s pretty much a one way ticket.
dzdtalmost 2 years ago
I only learned about what is a Performamce Improvement Plan (PIP) from managerial training at my BigCorp.<p>Assuming it works pretty consistently across the industry, a PIP basically means you are slated to be fired.<p>Circumstances may change, and by all means pay attention to and try to improve the metrics they ask you to improve, but don&#x27;t hold any illusions. You are almost certainly leaving that job in the next year one way or another.<p>You should try to leave on your own terms, i.e. find another job and submit your resignation.
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angry_moosealmost 2 years ago
I can&#x27;t see a possible reason to have a PIP quota if there isn&#x27;t an associated headcount reduction quota. I doubt there&#x27;s anything OP can do to save their job.<p>Do the bare minimum to last out the 6 months or whatever and spend the time interviewing and applying.
cajunboi34213almost 2 years ago
Get some documentation that proves this. Hire a lawyer. Go to HR. Get a settlement...
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JohnFenalmost 2 years ago
Leave. Leave now. Don&#x27;t look back. There is nothing good to be had by staying.
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jtodealmost 2 years ago
What is PIP?
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dogma1138almost 2 years ago
If you can get proof that it’s due to a quota - sue.
fourseventyalmost 2 years ago
PIP...? Define your acronyms on first use. Its so annoying
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