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Ask HN: A check from PayPal to me was stolen and cashed. What can I do?

36 pointsby paypal_woesalmost 2 years ago
So, I had the misfortune of having money in my PayPal balance. Their broken website refuses to let me add a bank account for withdrawal, so I opted to receive a check by mail, and even paid a $1.50 for this service.<p>PayPal issued the check on June 9th. On July 1st, I informed them that it still hasn&#x27;t arrived, and that I needed to wait a minimum of 14 <i>business</i> days.<p>On July 5th, the check was fraudulently cashed by an unknown third party. However, we don&#x27;t learn that until nearly a month later, because:<p>On July 9th, I contact them again. This time, they offer to stop payment on the check, to which I agree immediately. I am told to expect an email within 3-5 business days and that the rep will &quot;personally&quot; follow up. None of that ever happens.<p>On August 3rd, I contact them yet again and am finally told that the check has already been cashed. After some back and forth where they repeatedly insist that I check with my &quot;friends and family&quot; about the missing check, I am even provided with a copy of the canceled check (which does not even purport to have my signature on it -- only &quot;pay to the order of &lt;thief&gt;&quot; and the thief&#x27;s signature). They try to wash their hands of the whole thing, but I insist that they merely inform their bank (Wells Fargo) about the fraud. I am told I need to fill out a so-called &quot;Fraudulent Endorsement Claim Form,&quot; and that I will hear back about it in &quot;less than 28 hours.&quot;<p>On August 5th, 48 hours later, I ask them about this form and am told &quot;nothing to worry&quot; (this phrase appears twice in the single message), they are working on it. On August 13th, I contact them again, and am now being told there is nothing more they will do, and that I need to contact the receiving bank (Capital One -- an entity I have no relationship with whatsoever). I reiterate that no, they need to inform their sending bank about the fraud; they just keep insisting that I should somehow &quot;contact&quot; Capital One, and refusing to budge on contacting Wells Fargo themselves.<p>To summarize, from my point of view, PayPal&#x27;s negligence and incompetence has:<p>1) Allowed the theft to take place in the first place, by doing nothing when I reported the missing check 4 days before it was fraudulently cashed;<p>2) Subsequently allowed the theft to go undetected and unreported for a month, by both failing to notice that the check was already cashed when I inquired about it just 4 days <i>after</i> the fraud, and by failing -- despite emphatic promises to do so -- to follow up on this inquiry;<p>3) Even now continued to impede any investigation or resolution by refusing to take the most basic step of reporting the fraud to their sending bank, for two weeks and counting.<p>Does the hn hivemind have any clue what I can do next? I am at a loss. I have done two things so far: reported the mail theft to the US Postal Inspection Service via their web site, and reported the maddening details of PayPal&#x27;s behavior to my state&#x27;s Attorney General&#x27;s office. I have not heard back (except for the automatic acknowledgements) from either one.<p>Although the theft and fraud in and of themselves are not PayPal&#x27;s fault, am I crazy to think that I may be able to recover the funds directly from PayPal in light of the above, e.g. via small claims court?

13 comments

hkhannaalmost 2 years ago
None of this is legal advice, but I&#x27;m a student of negotiable instruments like checks and the history they have in our system of law and finance.<p>Checks are negotiable instruments governed by UCC Article 3, which has been adopted in all or nearly all states in the US. The drawer of a check, in this case Paypal, is normally liable for when an impostor presents the check or when their employees forge indorsements in the name of the payee. The thinking is that the drawer is best positioned to protect against that kind of fraud.<p>Depending on your state, you can probably take them to small claims court over this on the theory of a fraudulently indorsed instrument. You might also have a claim for breach of contract for failure to return the balance on the account, although you&#x27;d need to show how their failure to give you your money breaches a contract or statute, and that might be hard to do without a lawyer. The claim for fraudulent indorsement of the check is probably cleaner and less fact intensive.<p>Small claims is really accessible to non-lawyers, and PayPal probably won&#x27;t even show up. You could get a default judgment and then, if you really wanted to, execute that judgment against their bank, which you can probably see from the copy of the cancelled check.<p>Again, none of this is legal advice! It&#x27;s going to be time consuming and maybe not worth $270 but if you have the time and will, I&#x27;d say go for it.
willciprianoalmost 2 years ago
If you owed PayPal money they wouldn&#x27;t accept that you wrote a check to them and someone else cashed it as sufficient payment.
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paypal_woesalmost 2 years ago
Forgot to note two other interesting facts:<p>1) The check was addressed to my USPS PO Box -- the kind inside an actual post office. It seems extremely unlikely that a random person could have accessed it; more likely, it was misdelivered to another PO Box customer at the same office.<p>2) The check appears to have been cashed via Capital One&#x27;s mobile app -- &quot;for mobile deposit only&quot; is written in the endorsement field, along with the thief&#x27;s name and signature (but not mine, not even a forged one).<p>Putting these two together, it seems not unlikely that the thief could have been easily found, if PayPal were not actively obstructing even the most basic steps toward an investigation.
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PopAlongKidalmost 2 years ago
&gt;Their broken website refuses to let me add a bank account for withdrawal,<p>It would be interesting to find out more about this. Somehow I thought you <i>had</i> to have some other account (checking, credit card) linked to your Paypal balance to even get started.<p>If you had it to do over, would you have tried some other way to get access to the money (such as transferring it to a friend&#x27;s account, or using to to pay for something, etc)? This question is just a practical one; I agree that after paying $1.50 for an advertised service, your result should have been better.
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beAbUalmost 2 years ago
1&#x2F; I find it personally shocking that it&#x27;s still OK to use checks in 2023, and doubly shocking that it&#x27;s possible for a random 3rd party to cash said check without any, as you say, checks and balances in place in order to verify the identity of the cashee, and to verify that they are indeed the intended recipient of the value of the check. If it&#x27;s this easy to cash a check by a 3rd party, why don&#x27;t we forgo all the pretense, and send each other regular cash by mail? What&#x27;s the difference?<p>In my crappy country the last time we used checks was like the early 2000s maybe, and then you had to put the recipient&#x27;s bank account details on the check. So it&#x27;s not possible for a 3rd party to cash it. And if it gets lost, no biggie, invalidate the original check number with your bank, and issue a new one.<p>2&#x2F; You can either write that $270 to school fees for using PayPal, or you can go to small claims and lose your mind during the process. I vote for the former.
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scarmigalmost 2 years ago
IANAL, but I don&#x27;t think small claims court against PayPal would be end in a judgment against them. Though they might just cave and give you the money to avoid dealing with it.
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pengarualmost 2 years ago
<p><pre><code> &gt; &quot;pay to the order of &lt;thief&gt;&quot; </code></pre> So it was pre-filled by PayPal as remitted to &lt;thief&gt;, and not you? And you have the image proof of this?
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Brushfirealmost 2 years ago
I&#x27;d suggest you file a claim in small business court. It will get resolved very quickly.
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pseingatlalmost 2 years ago
&quot;the check was fraudulently cashed by an unknown third party.&quot;<p>There&#x27;s more to this part of the story:<p>roommate?<p>Ex?<p>Family member?<p>Or your mail gets stolen frequently. You&#x27;ve taken measures to prevent mail theft. Oh, you haven&#x27;t...
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slenkalmost 2 years ago
Nothing. Paypal is corrupt as hell and will gladly steal people&#x27;s money without reason or chance to respond.
warrenmalmost 2 years ago
How did you get a PayPal account in the first place without having a bank account attached?<p>That was a requirement for <i>years</i>
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aynycalmost 2 years ago
Try filing a CFPB complaint and maybe your state attorney general.
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chillycurvealmost 2 years ago
Slightly off-topic: has PayPal become unusable in the browser for anyone else? When using Firefox, no VPN, no ad blocking, I get some nondescript error that bounces me from the login screen. My IP must be on some list, but it is really annoying.
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