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Morris Chang founded TSMC, the most valuable company in Asia

147 pointsby adrian_mrdalmost 2 years ago

16 comments

consumer451almost 2 years ago
The Acquired podcast on TSMC should be listened to, or the transcript read.<p>One thing I learned is that TSMC is a sort of public&#x2F;private partnership with the Taiwanese government. They put up 50% of the initial capital.<p>&gt; David: 50% by the government and the other 50% were owned by the investors. Morris got nothing.<p>&gt; Ben: And just got to keep his salary.<p>&gt; David: He was a government employee.<p>&gt; Ben: Wow.<p>&gt; David: There by the grace of the government.<p>&gt; Ben: Oh my God.<p>&gt; David: Isn&#x27;t that unbelievable? This is so the opposite of Silicon Valley.<p>&gt; Ben: How is he worth $3 billion today?<p>&gt; David: Well, what he did—as TSMC started to work—he basically put all of his money into buying. He bought his own shares in the company. I don&#x27;t know if it was privately. They went public on the Taiwan Stock Exchange in 1994, and then the New York Stock Exchange in 1997. But yeah, he put basically all of his excess cash flow into buying TSMC shares.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.acquired.fm&#x2F;episodes&#x2F;tsmc" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.acquired.fm&#x2F;episodes&#x2F;tsmc</a>
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lucubratoryalmost 2 years ago
This is probably the most commonly repeated myth about a potential westpac war, that the PRC wants to get TSMC and the US wants to preserve access to it, and that&#x27;s why there&#x27;s an incentive for war and why there&#x27;s this constant escalation between the US and China. I don&#x27;t know why it&#x27;s so popular among people who don&#x27;t know the subject matter, but it is.<p>If westpac goes spicy, TSMC as it exists today is toast. The US will bomb the shit out of it if they can&#x27;t keep it, and probably target any personnel they can&#x27;t extract from the island; there was recently a big kerfuffle in TW domestic politics over someone in the US saying so publicly. The PRC wants chip independence, but everyone involved in that discussion understands that if the PRC waved a magic wand and gained complete control of TSMC, it doesn&#x27;t give them ASML, it doesn&#x27;t give them Zeiss, and a lot of that technology and process won&#x27;t necessarily be usable until there are domestic equivalents to those technologies, by which time it would probably be out of date. Reverse engineering manufacturing methods from a seized sample is incredibly, unbelievably difficult in the best of times, let alone for atomic precision mirrors and high-throughput miniature factories operated under high vacuum. More importantly, the PRC just isn&#x27;t willing to go to war over chip independence; their bar for war is a lot higher than that.<p>The reason the PRC wants actual control of Taiwan in 2023 and could credibly go to war to achieve it is the same reason they wanted actual control of the island from the years 1949-2023 inclusive, the same reason that the Taiwan government wanted actual control of the PRC mainland from the years 1949-1990: because they view the territory as rightfully theirs, taken from them by people who they hated, and perceived that there was a decent chance they could get it by force. PRC control over Taiwan would be the final chapter in the civil war that quite literally birthed the PRC - it has immense political and national significance and has been essentially a major goal and organising principle of the PLA and the PRC as a nation ever since the KMT retreated to Taiwan. It is not about trying to get access to new GPUs.
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hn_throwaway_99almost 2 years ago
Wow, great article!<p>&gt; TSMC pumps out close to 60 per cent of the semiconductor chips used around the world and makes 90 per cent of the most advanced technology used in phones and laptops all the way to missile systems.<p>I knew TSMC was dominant but not <i>that</i> dominant. Couple that with ASML in the Netherlands which makes the chip making machines, and I&#x27;m wondering if there has been any time in history when so much of our critical technology in our world has been concentrated in so few producers.
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chasilalmost 2 years ago
Here is an interview with a former vice president of research at TSMC (and later SMIC).<p>I encourage you to read the interview in its entirety. It is illuminating.<p>On the question of of bringing up a new process node:<p>&quot;We all take two years to develop one generation, how come you guys can do it in one or one-and-a-half year?&quot; And they asked if some of your customer transfer technology to you or what not? And I told him, &quot;No,&quot; I told him that, &quot;That&#x27;s not true.&quot; I think he probably implied we steal technology from customer, the way he talk.<p>And I say, &quot;I&#x27;ll tell you why.&quot; I said that, &quot;When we develop one node, basically you have some learning cycles. First, you do some simulation. And you have some idea, then you run wafers to prove that. So, you run a group of wafers according to simulation and you have some splits. The wafer runs through the fab, they come out and you measure them, you analyze them, and you try to improve and you run this again. This again, you run. So, this is learning cycle.&quot; At that time, &quot;It takes about six learning cycle, roughly, to complete one generation.&quot; Of course, you had some short loops and not just one. I said that, &quot;My R&amp;D wafer in the fab run much faster than yours, because my R&amp;D engineer works three shifts and you only work one shift. So, your R&amp;D wafer move eight hours a day, my work&#x2F;move 24-hours a day. So, my wafers go three times faster, even if you are twice smarter than me, I still beat you up.&quot; &lt;laughter&gt;<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.computerhistory.org&#x2F;collections&#x2F;catalog&#x2F;102792671" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.computerhistory.org&#x2F;collections&#x2F;catalog&#x2F;10279267...</a>
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aubanelalmost 2 years ago
Funny thing I learned is that Taiwan actually needs Typhoons every year.<p>The west coast of the island has many huge water dams (for instance, Baoshan dam), that are critical to sustain life and industry throughout the year.<p>Each typhoon (tropical cyclones are called &quot;typhoons&quot; in West Pacific, and &quot;hurricanes&quot; in the US) that passes in the area brings about torrential rains, thus refilling the dams. And a year without typhoon means the freshwater reserves will go dry.<p>Example of a recent shortage: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;focustaiwan.tw&#x2F;society&#x2F;202308070018" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;focustaiwan.tw&#x2F;society&#x2F;202308070018</a>
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quickthrower2almost 2 years ago
TMSC makes all the Nvidia AI chips right?<p>Also this made my jaw drop: It&#x27;s responsible for 5 per cent of Taiwan&#x27;s GDP, and 7 per cent of its electricity consumption.
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kaycebasquesalmost 2 years ago
Are there any good resources on the culture of TSMC? What makes it so successful in this space? Or maybe it&#x27;s not culture but something else?
dangalmost 2 years ago
Related ongoing thread:<p><i>Interview with Shang-Yi Chiang, Former TSMC VP of Research</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=37185090">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=37185090</a> - Aug 2023 (4 comments)
SnowProblemalmost 2 years ago
For more on TSMC&#x27;s history, Acquired podcast&#x27;s episode is incredible: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.acquired.fm&#x2F;episodes&#x2F;tsmc" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.acquired.fm&#x2F;episodes&#x2F;tsmc</a>
ggmalmost 2 years ago
Water shortages in Taiwan. That impacts production.<p>Earthquakes happen in the Taiwan Straights. That impacts production.<p>Taiwan is not the bottom of the supply chain stack. You can guess where I&#x27;m going with this.
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aeternumalmost 2 years ago
It&#x27;s pretty crazy that this used to be Intel like 15 years ago. Can they not fab GPUs instead of CPUs?
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ngc248almost 2 years ago
&gt;&gt;&gt; They weren&#x27;t going to design a perfect microchip. They were going to design the perfect microchip factory.<p>Its the &quot;selling shovels vs digging gold&quot; concept.
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incompatiblealmost 2 years ago
It seems unlikely to me, if China invaded, that the TSMC facilities would survive intact.
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amadeuspagelalmost 2 years ago
There&#x27;s an actual measure of how important companies are and how many want control of it and how much they want, and TSMC is #12: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;companiesmarketcap.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;companiesmarketcap.com&#x2F;</a>
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qaqalmost 2 years ago
what about ASML?
lucasyvasalmost 2 years ago
Did Buffet actually dump his stake as the article says? He must be completely convinced it will be seized because that seems like a silly investment to walk away from.
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