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Money is pouring into AI. Skeptics say it’s a ‘grift shift’

136 pointsby flarecoderover 1 year ago

25 comments

JimDabellover 1 year ago
Investors who do nothing but follow the crowd dumped a tonne of money into cryptocurrency &#x2F; blockchain startups regardless of merit. Now they are doing the same with AI. But AI actually has clear, immediate, and lasting value. Articles like this seem to be written <i>by</i> people who don’t understand the basic concepts <i>about</i> people who don’t understand the basic concepts. Both sets of people just seem to identify the trends and mistake the trend for the overall value. AI only looks like cryptocurrency &#x2F; blockchain if you don’t know anything at all about either one beyond “they are trendy and attract people who like investing in trendy things”.
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Animatsover 1 year ago
The distance between &quot;sort of works&quot; and &quot;works&quot; for AI is considerable. Not infinite.<p>Look at self-driving cars. The first tries were in the late 1950s, with GM&#x27;s Firebird 3, guided by wires in the road. By the 1980s, the first self-driving vehicles were moving around CMU, very slowly. By the early 1990s, experimental highway driving had been demoed. In the early 2000s, we had the DARPA Grand Challenge, which had off-road driving on empty roads working. Then there were a few experimental self-driving cars that sort of worked on general roads. Many startups, most went bust.<p>Today you can take a driverless cab in San Francisco. 64 years since GM&#x27;s Firebird III. (Which still exists, in driveable condition, in GM&#x27;s in-house collection.)<p>It may take a while to get from GPT-3 to Microsoft Middle Manager 2.0. But the path is clear now.
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harry8over 1 year ago
Transformative tech: cars. If you invested in the early movers you very likely lost your money.<p>Transformative tech: personal computers. If you invested in early movers you missed microsoft and you very likely lost your money.<p>Transformative tech: Internet&#x2F;web, dotcom boom. Google, facebook, twitter were not investable or did not even exist even up to when it popped.<p>Whether you believe AI is going to be massively transformative to the modern economy on a scale with cars or personal computing is actually not sufficient to start investing in the &#x27;sector&#x27; (for want of a better term).<p>So this is useful as a reverse indicator. Anyone investing buckets in AI is worth betting against in general. Everyone? Maybe not everyone. Maybe.<p>Likewise even if the blockchain sector is dead. (Is it? No clue) This does not necessarily make the technology dead. (Even if you would like it to be). The web came back and reinvented as a massive distributed surveillance machine. Who would have predicted that in the crash? Who would have wanted it? Well we got it anyway.
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c7bover 1 year ago
What I find interesting about this wave of tech is not just how useful, but how accessible it is. Image generators like SD pretty much work out of the box on a lot of consumer-grade hardware, LLMs might be a bit more of a stretch but still doable (haven&#x27;t tried that yet, though). It&#x27;s quite unusual, compare that to how inaccessible the first computers were.<p>Not sure I would love this fact if I was an AI investor, but for the rest of us, it&#x27;s just a blessing. Let&#x27;s hope it stays that way by supporting researchers&#x2F;companies who do share their weights, and being mindful of the CEOs telling lawmakers that only they should be allowed to do matrix multiplications (not saying we don&#x27;t need any regulation though). Those tools undeniably do create value, maybe not for every investor, but for countless users. And the investors should understand the risks, my guess is that if you&#x27;d invested in &quot;cars&quot; around 1900, chances that you&#x27;d have lost your money would have been quite high, even though your idea might have been right in principle.
Almondsetatover 1 year ago
Routinely articles like these are written.<p>I find them superfluous and a symptom of the human tendency to never sit down and reflect about stuff.<p>Grifts prey on the ignorant, duping them through an informational gap.<p>As such, grifts flourish in new and uncertain environments. Environments where expert opinion is still forming and is badly communicated, and scammers can sound knowledgeable to the average person without actually knowing anything.<p>Now that experts have pushed against crypto and the whole field has become clearer in what can be done with it and what can&#x27;t, it&#x27;s obvious that grifters are moving to the new uncharted hotness: &quot;AI&quot;. Writing articles like this, always talking about the specific events and never the global trend, does not help the wheel of grifting stop spinning.
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spaceman_2020over 1 year ago
I was a complete believer in AI when chatGPT first dropped. The tech seemed revolutionary. GPT-4 even helped me write a ton of code for an app.<p>But if you ask me now, I feel that the AI revolution is a little overstated. The tech, while incredibly good, is not really ready for large scale adoption. Individuals and hobbyists might benefit from it, but for large enterprises and serious applications, it&#x27;s too inconsistent and unreliable.<p>All I can see it accomplishing is pushing out the lowest end of the content&#x2F;code creation totem pole. That&#x27;s nice, but it&#x27;s not nearly the &quot;intelligence revolution&quot; the promoters have been promising.
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padolseyover 1 year ago
Summary: Investors don&#x27;t know where to put their money and they&#x27;re scared
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codelordover 1 year ago
IMO AI is more underrated than overhyped. The scale of value that AI can bring maybe larger than what internet brought. But, product design and engineering havn&#x27;t caught up with the science yet. I think we are too narrowly looking at AI. LLMs are cool, but investors should look beyond that. ChatGPT wrappers aren&#x27;t the next big thing. The fact that LLMs and image generation models work as good as they do now, should give investors a signal that the science of AI is approaching a tipping point where it&#x27;s finally good enough to be incorporated into products. I see potential in 10 years time for a new FAANG, 5 trillion dollar companies with heavy reliance on AI that bring automation to various aspects of our lives.
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poulpy123over 1 year ago
I&#x27;m not a skeptic per se (I&#x27;m impressed by generative AI and LLMs) but I can&#x27;t avoid to notice that the coding AI of these last months didn&#x27;t lead to an explosion of software. AFAIK I haven&#x27;t see any non trivial software that have been programmed either completely by AI or with the majority of the work done by AI.
ggmover 1 year ago
Firmly in the skeptic camp, here to say people are love bombing AI to make money, not because LLM are a gateway to AGI and AGI doesn&#x27;t have to appear for people to make money.<p>Belief in AGI is useful to sell stock and IPO. Few serious researchers in academia see AGI in what&#x27;s going on, or even roadsigns. Look at the language Hinton uses more closely.
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ramesh31over 1 year ago
The skeptics will be wrong this time. LLMs will be the biggest tech revolution since smartphones. It&#x27;s something that literally every single person can find a use for.
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LeanderKover 1 year ago
Regardless of wether it&#x27;s the right idea right now, I am convinced that AI is at least not he complete vapourware that blockchain was. That really was some useless hype. There&#x27;s something to show for and real applications, from self driving cars to other smart systems. Classifiers are everywhere.<p>I interact with chatgpt regularly. It&#x27;s in my smartphone classifying my photos. I don&#x27;t know when I have ever interacted with a blockchain.
mihaalyover 1 year ago
Money is always pouring into something shiny (looking from a limited perspective) thing.<p>Probably too much money is with clueless but greedy and lazy (to discover) people?
flarecoderover 1 year ago
The move from crypto to artificial intelligence has fueled the markets this year, but some are questioning how much of it is real.
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thorinover 1 year ago
Is this any different to &quot;blockchain is the solution to everything&quot;, &quot;big data&quot;, &quot;cloud&quot; etc etc?
birracervezaover 1 year ago
It&#x27;s all a grift. The whole economy is grifters grifting grifters, a game of musical chairs that&#x27;s going on ever since the stock market was first invented. Probably even before.
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renegade-otterover 1 year ago
I am not going to shed a tear for those VCs with dumb money who back the truck up and dump their cash into a &quot;startup&quot; that pivoted from blockchain to AI last week.
nologic01over 1 year ago
The &quot;AI&quot; bubble has some similarities but also important differences from the &quot;crypto&#x2F;blockchain&quot; bubble and the brief &quot;metaverse&quot; mania.<p>The similarities are sort of obvious. The real economy is in a precarious state worldwide. Geopolitical strife, political polarization, exhausted and confused households, still reeling from the pandemic. All in a background of a deteriorating environment that either burns to ashes or is swamped by plastic. This is our real condition and there is no turnaround in sight.<p>Yet the &quot;optimism&quot; and valuations must keep up or the system will collapse for good. The reliable pony delivering tricks is the tech sector. Being unregulated&#x2F;oligopolistic with massive rent extraction, operating in an entirely virtual realm and by now controlling all digital communication channels it has massive resources and opportunity to pump up every nugget into a digital gold rush and it does so shamelessly and with predictable regularity.<p>So what is different between these serial bubbles? crypto and metaverse require massive social and&#x2F;or behavioral change. If you look at the problems that blockchain was supposed to solve, all of them would be solvable with lower tech if people actually had an interest to solve them. There far easier ways to make the monetary and financial systems more fair and honest than inventing a poor simulacra. The metaverse requires a collective migration into a fake reality. People are increasingly escapists and absurdists but strapping a heavy idiot-signaling device on your head is a virtual bridge too far for most.<p>&quot;AI&quot; is a better fit to the status quo. Grabbing any and all accessible data and algorithmic manipulation of people is already enshrined as acceptable practice (&quot;people so much enjoy the convenience&quot;). So imho this bubble has some legs. Which means the fall will more painful when it happens. What will burst the bubble? Regulation on data collection and possible applications is one possible balloon prick. The other one is commoditization.<p>Commoditization is an interesting one. If there is any silver lining in this dismal doom tech era we live through it is the fact that major information processing and communication capabilities are being built. It is conceivable that at some point these will be deployed in very different ways and with much bigger positive impact.
Havocover 1 year ago
Well it’s more real than crypto in many ways so not a terrible gamble
shaburnover 1 year ago
Many bought crypto, few used it. Many use LLMs, few pay for them.
kubbover 1 year ago
Modern &quot;economy&quot;.<p>There are a bunch of thousands of guys with a couple to a couple hundred billion each. There are millions of people desperate to own a house and afford life. The rich guys want to be more rich. They&#x27;re hiring some of the poor suckers to check how others got richer in the past. The answer is tech!<p>New tech is created every couple of years. People hype it up as much as they can. The rich guys give a fraction of their billions each to finance whatever seems remotely reasonable while squinting in that space, just for a chance to hit the jackpot and get more billions, maybe even a trillion, and their face onto Forbes and on TV.<p>The poor suckers gotta scramble. They invent all kinds of bullshit, and they sell it to the other poor suckers who advise the rich guys. Teams of specialists are created. Whole organizations. There&#x27;s HR, somebody to organize team building events. Every layer spawns another layer. Lawyers, somebody to give sexual harassment trainings, someone to run the cafeteria.<p>Buildings are rented from the rich guys via managment companies run by the poor suckers. Every day a handful of people make it and can even buy a house! Codes of conduct are written, company values and mission statements. People pivot, jump from place to place, try to sign the best contract. Every once in a while an exec jumps ship with several hundred mil in the bank.<p>It&#x27;s a great life. What could be better?
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satvikpendemover 1 year ago
AI investment is actually down recently, looks like the hype is wearing off since most of the companies funded were just wrapping OpenAI APIs. I will copy paste a post I submitted before regarding a similar issue.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;0xSamHogan&#x2F;status&#x2F;1680725207898816512" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;0xSamHogan&#x2F;status&#x2F;1680725207898816512</a><p>Nitter: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;nitter.net&#x2F;0xSamHogan&#x2F;status&#x2F;1680725207898816512#m" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;nitter.net&#x2F;0xSamHogan&#x2F;status&#x2F;1680725207898816512#m</a><p>---<p>6 months ago it looked like AI &#x2F; LLMs were going to bring a much needed revival to the venture startup ecosystem after a few tough years.<p>With companies like Jasper starting to slow down, it’s looking like this may not be the case.<p>Right now there are 2 clear winners, a handful of losers, and a small group of moonshots that seem promising.<p>Let’s start with the losers.<p>Companies like Jasper and the VCs that back them are the biggest losers right now. Jasper raised &gt;$100M at a 10-figure valuation for what is essentially a generic, thin wrapper around OpenAI. Their UX and brand are good, but not great, and competition from companies building differentiated products specifically for high-value niches are making it very hard to grow with such a generic product. I’m not sure how this pans out but VC’s will likely lose their money.<p>The other category of losers are the VC-backed teams building at the application layer that raised $250K-25M in Dec - March on the back of the chatbot craze with the expectation that they would be able to sell to later-stage and enterprise companies. These startups typically have products that are more focused than something very generic like Jasper, but still don&#x27;t have a real technology moat; the products are easy to copy.<p>Executives at enterprise companies are excited about AI, and have been vocal about this from the beginning. This led a lot of founders and VC&#x27;s to believe these companies would make good first customers. What the startups building for these companies failed to realize is just how aligned and savvy executives and the engineers they manage would be at quickly getting AI into production using open-source tools. An engineering leader would rather spin up their own @LangChainAI and @trychroma infrastructure for free and build tech themselves than buy something from a new, unproven startup (and maybe pick up a promotion along the way).<p>In short, large companies are opting to write their own AI success stories rather than being a part of the growth metrics a new AI startup needs to raise their next round.<p>(This is part of an ongoing shift in the way technology is adopted; I&#x27;ll discuss this in a post next week.)<p>This brings us to our first group of winners — established companies and market incumbents. Most of them had little trouble adding AI into their products or hacking together some sort of &quot;chat-your-docs&quot; application internally for employee use. This came as a surprise to me. Most of these companies seemed to be asleep at the wheel for years. They somehow woke up and have been able to successfully navigate the LLM craze with ample dexterity.<p>There are two causes for this:<p>1. Getting AI right is a life or death proposition for many of these companies and their executives; failure here would mean a slow death over the next several years. They can&#x27;t risk putting their future in the hands of a new startup that could fail and would rather lead projects internally to make absolutely sure things go as intended.<p>2. There is a certain amount of kick-ass wafting through halls of the C-Suite right now. Ambitious projects are being green-lit and supported in ways they weren&#x27;t a few years ago. I think we owe this in part to @elonmusk reminding us of what is possible when a small group of smart people are highly motivated to get things done. Reduce red-tape, increase personal responsibility, and watch the magic happen.<p>Our second group of winners live on the opposite side of this spectrum; indie devs and solopreneurs. These small, often one-man outfits do not raise outside capital or build big teams. They&#x27;re advantage is their small size and ability to move very quickly with low overhead. They build niche products for niche markets, which they often dominate. The goal is build a saas product (or multiple) that generates ~$10k&#x2F;mo in relatively passive income. This is sometimes called &quot;mirco-saas.&quot;<p>These are the @levelsio&#x27;s and @dannypostmaa&#x27;s of the world. They are part software devs, part content marketers, and full-time modern internet businessmen. They answer to no one except the markets and their own intuition.<p>This is the biggest group of winners right now. Unconstrained by the need for a $1B+ exit or the goal of $100MM ARR, they build and launch products in rapid-fire fashion, iterating until PMF and cashflow, and moving on to the next. They ruthlessly shutdown products that are not performing.<p>LLMs and text-to-image models a la Stable Diffusion have been a boon for these entrepreneurs, and I personally know of dozens of successful (keeping in mind their definition of successful) apps that were started less than 6 months ago. The lifestyle and freedom these endeavors afford to those that perform well is also quite enticing.<p>I think we will continue to see the number of successful micro-saas AI apps grow in the next 12 months. This could possibly become one of the biggest cohorts creating real value with this technology.<p>The last group I want to talk about are the AI Moonshots — companies that are fundamentally re-imagining an entire industry from the ground up. Generally, these companies are VC-backed and building products that have the potential to redefine how a small group of highly-skilled humans interact with and are assisted by technology. It&#x27;s too early to tell if they&#x27;ll be successful or not; early prototypes have been compelling. This is certainly the most exciting segment to watch.<p>A few companies I would put in this group are:<p>1. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;cursor.so" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;cursor.so</a> - an AI-first code editor that could very well change how software is written.<p>2. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;harvey.ai" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;harvey.ai</a> - AI for legal practices<p>3. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;runwayml.com" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;runwayml.com</a> - an AI-powered video editor<p>This is an incomplete list, but overall I think the Moonshot category needs to grow massively if we&#x27;re going to see the AI-powered future we&#x27;ve all been hoping for.<p>If you&#x27;re a founder in the $250K-25M raised category and are having a hard time finding PMF for your chatbot or LLMOps company, it may be time to consider pivoting to something more ambitious.<p>Lets recap:<p>1. VC-backed companies are having a hard time. The more money a company raised, the more pain they&#x27;re feeling.<p>2. Incumbents and market leaders are quickly become adept at deploying cutting-edge AI using internal teams and open-source, off-the-shelf technology, cutting out what seemed to be good opportunities for VC-backed startups.<p>3. Indie devs are building small, cash-flowing businesses by quickly shipping niche AI-powered products in niche markets.<p>4. A small number of promising Moonshot companies with unproven technology hold the most potential for VC-sized returns.<p>It&#x27;s still early. This landscape will continue to change as new foundational models are released and toolchains improve. I&#x27;m sure you can find counter examples to everything I&#x27;ve written about here. Put them in the comments for others to see.<p>And just to be upfront about this, I fall squarely into the &quot;raised $250K-25M without PMF&quot; category.
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adamnemecekover 1 year ago
Yeah the two are not comparable.
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ChatGTPover 1 year ago
Given the absurd pace of open source, I&#x27;m not sure if the money itself is in &quot;AI&quot;, maybe certain applications but if I can run something 95% as good as ChatGTP-4 on my home desktop in a year or so, then I&#x27;m not going to be paying for any &quot;AI&quot; solutions.
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rvzover 1 year ago
It is a grift regardless of usefulness. &quot;But it is useful&quot; is hardly a justification for destroying the planet [0] [1] [2] without any viable efficient methods available today in training, fine-tuning and running it on every inference on tons of data centers.<p>All for so-called companies claiming to be &#x27;AI companies&#x27; when they cannot even read or implement a technical paper and are just wrapping over someone elses API and immediately they are &#x27;AI companies&#x27;. When it goes down they start crying over it &#x27;not working&#x27;.<p>That is a confidence trick which is the definition of a grift and most replying here with excuses of &quot;But it is useful&quot; are likely to be underwater over their investments in inflated ChatGPT wrapper companies.<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gizmodo.com&#x2F;chatgpt-ai-water-185000-gallons-training-nuclear-1850324249" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gizmodo.com&#x2F;chatgpt-ai-water-185000-gallons-training...</a><p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.independent.co.uk&#x2F;tech&#x2F;chatgpt-data-centre-water-consumption-b2318972.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.independent.co.uk&#x2F;tech&#x2F;chatgpt-data-centre-water...</a><p>[2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theguardian.com&#x2F;technology&#x2F;2023&#x2F;jun&#x2F;08&#x2F;artificial-intelligence-industry-boom-environment-toll" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theguardian.com&#x2F;technology&#x2F;2023&#x2F;jun&#x2F;08&#x2F;artificia...</a>