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A deep dive into Single Pair Ethernet

237 pointsby killcoderover 1 year ago

9 comments

addaonover 1 year ago
Two things I&#x27;ve learned working with SPE in its 100 Mb and 1 Gb configurations for a few years:<p>1) PoDL is substantially lighter, smaller, and simpler (though not necessarily cheaper) at 1 Gb than at 100 Mb, due to the increased frequency separation. Just like with other Ethernet protocols, the lowest frequency of comms is basically DC; it&#x27;s only statistically brought above that by the scrambler, but there&#x27;s no useful true lower bound. Having an order of magnitude more separation, such as it is, allows a more reasonably sized filter to stomp over less (ideally, approximately none) of the data.<p>2) Only the 1 Gb protocol includes FEC, 100 Mb is a simpler, non-error-correcting encoding. This means that even though the maximum frequency on the twisted pair goes up by an order of magnitude to ~660 MHz, requiring better cabling, better twist spacing, etc... it allows a &quot;sloppier&quot; job at both high and low frequencies, since the FEC really does hide a few errors. This can be spent on even worse filters for PoDL, on frequency-specific interference (e.g. an RF amp running nearby), etc.<p>Basically, I was surprised to find that 1 Gb was not only not more challenging at the system design level, it was often simpler. (I haven&#x27;t played with 10 Mb in either of its two incarnations seriously yet.)
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killcoderover 1 year ago
We built a Power over Data Line (PoDL) compliant device and power supply as part of a one-month &#x27;sink or swim&#x27; approach to designing and testing new hardware, and getting to look at maturity of the 10Base-T1 ecosystem. The board was enclosed a submersible sensor node and field tested at a popular dive reef, SCUBA diving down and mounting it to the jetty.<p>It was also a nice excuse to get some macro shots of the PCB assembly process, including some nice footage of solder paste melting and the interesting surface tension interactions.<p>(I can&#x27;t seem to get the videos to render in a format that iOS Safari will play, if anyone knows the ffmpeg incantation, please let me know, nothing I&#x27;ve tried has worked on my iPhone...)
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h2odragonover 1 year ago
&gt; Single Pair Ethernet supports long range &gt;1km cable runs<p>That&#x27;s going to introduce a lot of people to the joys of outdoor long wires and their interaction with lighting. I&#x27;ve seen the induction current from ground surge turn 25 pair cat3 into <i>vapor</i> ... there&#x27;s fun to be had there.
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throw0101aover 1 year ago
802.3cy recently added support for 25 Gb&#x2F;s:<p>&gt; <i>In addition to the more computer-oriented two and four-pair variants, the 10BASE-T1,[20] 100BASE-T1[21] and 1000BASE-T1[22] single-pair Ethernet physical layers are intended for industrial and automotive applications[23] or as optional data channels in other interconnect applications.[24] The single pair operates at full duplex and has a maximum reach of 15 m or 49 ft (100BASE-T1, 1000BASE-T1 link segment type A) or up to 40 m or 130 ft (1000BASE-T1 link segment type B) with up to four in-line connectors. Both physical layers require a balanced twisted pair with an impedance of 100 Ω. The cable must be capable of transmitting 600 MHz for 1000BASE-T1 and 66 MHz for 100BASE-T1. 2.5 Gb&#x2F;s, 5 Gb&#x2F;s, and 10 Gb&#x2F;s over a 15 m single pair is standardized in 802.3ch-2020.[25] In June 2023, 802.3cy added 25 Gb&#x2F;s speeds at lengths up to 11 m.[26]</i><p>* <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Ethernet_over_twisted_pair#Single-pair" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Ethernet_over_twisted_pair#Sin...</a><p>802.3dg is going for 100M and 1000M over distances of 500m
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Dylan16807over 1 year ago
Also, since this doesn&#x27;t really talk about the ethernet data, the signalling for 10Base-T1L is PAM3, 4B3T, 7.5 megabaud. So 4 bits of data get turned into 3 symbols, each symbol being either negative voltage, positive voltage, or zero voltage, and then the symbols are transmitted at 7.5MHz.<p>Something to note is that it has a much lower bandwidth requirement than 10BASE-T, because 10BASE-T uses manchester encoding with two symbols per bit (either 01 or 10). So 3.75MHz of bandwidth versus 10MHz of bandwidth.
scohescover 1 year ago
As a side project I&#x27;m looking at making an autonomous vehicle of some kind, starting with a ground vehicle and eventually moving to something on or under the water.<p>It&#x27;s mindboggling how many different ways there are to communicate with microcontrollers, sensors, etc. So many different standards with different data rates, capabilities, features, etc.<p>It&#x27;s cool to see something like ethernet be able to be used in rough situations like this. I&#x27;m sure this is done already with some technology, but I&#x27;d love to see a buoy with solar&#x2F;wind and batteries for power, with a tether going down into the water to supply power and data for sensor arrays underwater. Trying to communicate through water is tough - I even looked at acoustic modems to try and transfer data but it looks like they haven&#x27;t gotten down to consumer&#x2F;tinkerer level of electronics yet.<p>Single Pair ethernet with power seems very complicated for a fairly ignorant but interested hobbyist haha
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TrueDualityover 1 year ago
Great write up. Looks like the GitHub repo with the project hasn&#x27;t been posted yet. Look forward to poking through that!
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myself248over 1 year ago
But there are several types of ethernet that run over a single pair now. There&#x27;s 802.3bu, 802.3cg, 802.3da, 802.3bw, and possibly more.<p>And I can&#x27;t tell if any of them are compatible. I think da is compatible with cg, but the others are all little islands, all serving very similar needs in mutually-frustrating ways.<p>Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy?
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inambercladover 1 year ago
I just started a job using PoDL and so far I&#x27;m quite impressed with it as a technology. I&#x27;d like to see consumer devices start to use it too.