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Doug Lenat has died

550 pointsby snewmanover 1 year ago

32 comments

brundolfover 1 year ago
Doug was at times blunt, but he was fundamentally a kind and generous person, and he had a dedication to his vision and to the people who worked alongside him that has to be admired. He will be missed.<p>I worked at Cycorp (not directly with Doug very often, but it wasn&#x27;t a big office) between 2016 and 2020<p>An anecdote: during our weekly all-hands lunch in the big conference room, he mentioned he was getting a new car (his old one was pretty old, but well-kept) and he asked if anybody could use the old car. One of the staff raised his hand sheepishly and said his daughter was about to start driving. Doug gifted him the car on the spot, without a second thought.<p>He also loved board games, and was in a D&amp;D group with some others at the company. I was told he only ever played lawful good characters, he didn&#x27;t know how to do otherwise :)<p>Happy to answer what questions I can
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snowmakerover 1 year ago
I interviewed with Doug Lenat was I was a 17 year old high school student, and he hired me as a summer intern for Cycorp - my first actual programming job.<p>That internship was life-changing for me, and I&#x27;ll always be grateful to him for taking a wild bet on a literally a kid.<p>Doug was a brilliant computer scientist, and a pioneer of artificial intelligence. Though I was very junior at Cycorp, it was a small company so I sat in many meetings with him. It was obvious that he understood every detail of how the technology worked, and was extremely smart.<p>Cycorp was 30 years ahead of its time and never actually worked. For those who don&#x27;t know, it was essentially the first OpenAI - the first large-scale commercial effort to create general artificial intelligence.<p>I learned a lot from Doug about how to be incredibly ambitious, and how to not give up. Doug worked on Cycorp for multiple decades. It never really took off, but he managed to keep funding it and keep hiring great people so he could keep plugging away at the problem. I know very few people who have stuck with an idea for so long.
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gumbyover 1 year ago
I worked with Doug on Cyc from ~85-89 (we had overlapped at PARC but didn’t interact much there). The first thing undid was scrap the old implementation and start from scratch, designing the levels system and all the bootstrap code.<p>It was a fun time with a small core team (mainly me, guha, and Doug) but over time I became dissatisfied with some of the arbitrariness of the KB. By the time I left the Cyc project (for my own reasons unrelated to work) I was somewhat negative towards the foundations of the project, despite the tight relationship we’d had and the fact it ran on my code! But over time I became smarter and came to appreciate once again its value. I had too much of a “pure math” view of things back then.<p>As I moved on to other things I lost touch with Doug and Mary, and I’m sorry for that.
symbolicAGIover 1 year ago
Doug Lenat, RIP. I worked at Cycorp in Austin from 2000-2006. Taken from us way too soon, Doug none the less had the opportunity to help our country advance military and intelligence community computer science research.<p>One day, the rapid advancement of AI via LLMs will slow down and attention will again return to logical reasoning and knowledge representation as championed by the Cyc Project, Cycorp, its cyclists and Dr. Doug Lenat.<p>Why? If NN inference were so fast, we would compile C programs with it instead of using deductive logical inference that is executed efficiently by the compiler.
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mindcrimeover 1 year ago
If anybody wants to hear more about Doug&#x27;s work and ideas, here is a (fairly long) interview with Doug by Lex Fridman, from last year.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=3wMKoSRbGVs&amp;pp=ygUabGV4IGZyaWRtYW4gZG91Z2xhcyBsZW5hdCA%3D">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=3wMKoSRbGVs&amp;pp=ygUabGV4IGZya...</a>
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tunesmithover 1 year ago
It&#x27;s fun reading through the paper he links just because I&#x27;ve always been enamored by taking a lot of those principles that they believe should be internal to a computer, and instead making them external to a community.<p>In other words, I think it would be so highly useful to have a browseable corpus of arguments and conclusions, where people could collaborate on them and perhaps disagree with portions of the argument graph, adding to it and enriching it over time, so other people could read and perhaps adopt the same reasoning.<p>I play around with ideas with this site I occasionally work on, <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;concludia.org&#x2F;" rel="nofollow noreferrer">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;concludia.org&#x2F;</a> - really more an excuse at this point to mess around with the concept and also get better at Akka (Pekko) programming. At some point I&#x27;ll add user accounts and editable arguments and make it a real website.
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eigenvalueover 1 year ago
I have always thought of Cyc as being the AI equivalent of Russell and Whitehead&#x27;s Principia--something that is technically ambitious and interesting in its own right, but ultimately just the wrong approach that will never really work well on a standalone basis, no matter how long you work on it or keep adding more and more rules. That being said, I do think it could prove to be useful for testing and teaching neural net models.<p>In any case, at the time Lenat starting working on Cyc, we didn&#x27;t really have the compute required to do NN models at the level where they start exhibiting what most would call &quot;common sense reasoning,&quot; so it makes total sense why he started out on that path. RIP.
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hu3over 1 year ago
The end of the article [1] reminds me to publish more of what I make and think. I&#x27;m no Doug Lenat and my content would probably just add noise to the internet but still, don&#x27;t let your ideas die with you or become controlled by some board of stakeholders. I&#x27;m also no open-source zealot but open-source is a nice way to let others continue what you started.<p>[1]<p>&quot;Over the last year, Doug and I tried to write a long, complex paper that we never got to finish. Cyc was both awesome in its scope, and unwieldy in its implementation. The biggest problem with Cyc from an academic perspective is that it’s proprietary.<p>To help more people understand it, I tried to bring out of him what lessons he learned from Cyc, for a future generation of researchers to use. Why did it work as well as it did when it did, why did fail when it did, what was hard to implement, and what did he wish that he had done differently? ...<p>...One of his last emails to me, about six weeks ago, was an entreaty to get the paper out ASAP; on July 31, after a nerve-wracking false-start, it came out, on arXiv, Getting from Generative AI to Trustworthy AI: What LLMs might learn from Cyc (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;arxiv.org&#x2F;ftp&#x2F;arxiv&#x2F;papers&#x2F;2308&#x2F;2308.04445.pdf" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;arxiv.org&#x2F;ftp&#x2F;arxiv&#x2F;papers&#x2F;2308&#x2F;2308.04445.pdf</a>).<p>The brief article is simultaneously a review of what Cyc tried to do, an encapsulation of what we should expect from genuine artificial intelligence, and a call for reconciliation between the deep symbolic tradition that he worked in with modern Large Language Models.&quot;
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varjagover 1 year ago
Never met the guy but his work was one of my biggest inspirations in computing.<p>I feel it&#x27;s appropriate to link a blog post of mine from 2018. It&#x27;s a quick recap of Lenat works on the trajectory that brought him towards Cyc, with links to the papers.<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;blog.funcall.org&#x2F;&#x2F;lisp&#x2F;2018&#x2F;11&#x2F;03&#x2F;am-eurisko-lenat-documents&#x2F;" rel="nofollow noreferrer">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;blog.funcall.org&#x2F;&#x2F;lisp&#x2F;2018&#x2F;11&#x2F;03&#x2F;am-eurisko-lenat-do...</a>
dredmorbiusover 1 year ago
Cyc (&quot;Syke&quot;) is one of those projects I&#x27;ve long found vaguely fascinating though I&#x27;ve never had the time &#x2F; spoons to look into it significantly. It&#x27;s an AI project based on a comprehensive ontology and knowledgebase.<p>Wikipedia&#x27;s overview: &lt;<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Cyc" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Cyc</a>&gt;<p>Project &#x2F; company homepage: &lt;<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;cyc.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;cyc.com&#x2F;</a>&gt;
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nyx_landover 1 year ago
Weird, I interviewed with him summer 2021 hoping to be able to land an ontologist job at Cycorp. It went spectacularly badly because it turned out I really needed to brush up more on my formal logic skills, but I was surprised to even get an interview, let alone with the man himself. He still encouraged me to work on reviewing logic and to apply again in the future but I stopped seeing listings at Cycorp for ontologists and started putting off returning to that aspiration thinking Cycorp has been around long enough that there was no rush. Memento mori
ftxbroover 1 year ago
Here&#x27;s a 2016 Wired article about Doug Lenat, he was the guy who made Eurisko and CYC <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.wired.com&#x2F;2016&#x2F;03&#x2F;doug-lenat-artificial-intelligence-common-sense-engine&#x2F;" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.wired.com&#x2F;2016&#x2F;03&#x2F;doug-lenat-artificial-intellig...</a>
at_a_removeover 1 year ago
I&#x27;ve often thought that Cyc had an enormous value as some kind of component for AI, a &quot;baseline truth&quot; about the universe (to the degree that we understand it and have &quot;explained&quot; our understanding to Cyc in terms of its frames). AM (no relation to any need for screaming) was a taste of the AI dream.
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mrmincentover 1 year ago
Sad to hear of his passing, I remember building my uni project around OpenCyc in my one “Intelligent Systems” class many many years ago. It was a dismal failure as my ambition far exceeded my skills, but it was so enjoyable reading about Cyc and the dedicated work Douglas had put in over such a long time.
nikolayover 1 year ago
Even being a controversial figure, he was one of my heroes. Getting excited about Eurisko in the &#x27;80s and &#x27;90s was a big driver for me at the time! Rest in piece, dear computer pioneer!
Rochusover 1 year ago
He was a hero of knowledge representation and ontology. A bit odd that we learn about his sad passing from a Wikipedia article, while at the time of this comment there is still no mention on e.g. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;cyc.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;cyc.com&#x2F;</a>.
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satycharyover 1 year ago
I worked on Cyc in the early 90s, briefly [<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;dl.acm.org&#x2F;doi&#x2F;pdf&#x2F;10.1145&#x2F;165529.993430" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;dl.acm.org&#x2F;doi&#x2F;pdf&#x2F;10.1145&#x2F;165529.993430</a> shows my MCC address on p.10 :)]. I cherish wonderful memories of being on that project.<p>Doug was amazing - bold, brilliant, visionary, charismatic.<p>RIP, dear leader.
mrcwinnover 1 year ago
Here&#x27;s one for you, Doug. My condolences.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;chat.openai.com&#x2F;share&#x2F;dbd59c92-696b-45d3-8097-c09a2350d7b6" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;chat.openai.com&#x2F;share&#x2F;dbd59c92-696b-45d3-8097-c09a23...</a>
toomuchtodoover 1 year ago
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Douglas_Lenat" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Douglas_Lenat</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.archive.org&#x2F;web&#x2F;20230901183515&#x2F;https:&#x2F;&#x2F;garymarcus.substack.com&#x2F;p&#x2F;doug-lenat-1950-2023" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.archive.org&#x2F;web&#x2F;20230901183515&#x2F;https:&#x2F;&#x2F;garymarcu...</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.ph&#x2F;icb92" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.ph&#x2F;icb92</a>
az226over 1 year ago
Maybe it&#x27;s a bit on the nose but I had his article summarized by Anthropic&#x27;s Claude 2 100k model (LLMs are good at summarization) for those who don&#x27;t have time to read the whole thing:<p>The article discusses generative AI models like ChatGPT and contrasts them with knowledge-based AI systems like Cyc.<p>Generative models can produce very fluent text, but they lack true reasoning abilities and can make up plausible-sounding but false information. This makes them untrustworthy.<p>In contrast, Cyc represents knowledge explicitly and can logically reason over it. This makes it more reliable, though it struggles with natural language and speed.<p>The article proposes 16 capabilities an ideal AI system should have, including explanation, reasoning, knowledge, ethics, and language skills. Cyc and generative models each have strengths and weaknesses on these dimensions.<p>The authors suggest combining symbolic systems like Cyc with generative models to get the best of both approaches. Ways to synergize them include:<p>Using Cyc to filter out false information from generative models.<p>Using Cyc&#x27;s knowledge to train generative models to be more correct.<p>Using generative models to suggest knowledge to add to Cyc&#x27;s knowledge base.<p>Using Cyc&#x27;s reasoning to expand what generative models can say.<p>Using Cyc to explain the reasoning behind generative model outputs.<p>Overall, the article argues combining reasoning-focused systems like Cyc with data-driven generative models could produce more robust and trustworthy AI. Each approach can shore up weaknesses of the other.<p>May he rest in peace.
dangover 1 year ago
Related. Others?<p><i>Cyc</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=33011596">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=33011596</a> - Sept 2022 (2 comments)<p><i>Why AM and Eurisko Appear to Work (1983) [pdf]</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=28343118">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=28343118</a> - Aug 2021 (17 comments)<p><i>Early AI: “Eurisko, the Computer with a Mind of Its Own” (1984)</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=27298167">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=27298167</a> - May 2021 (2 comments)<p><i>Cyc</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=21781597">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=21781597</a> - Dec 2019 (173 comments)<p><i>Some documents on AM and EURISKO</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=18443607">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=18443607</a> - Nov 2018 (10 comments)<p><i>One genius&#x27;s lonely crusade to teach a computer common sense (2016)</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=16510766">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=16510766</a> - March 2018 (1 comment)<p><i>Douglas Lenat&#x27;s Cyc is now being commercialized</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=11300567">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=11300567</a> - March 2016 (49 comments)<p><i>Why AM and Eurisko Appear to Work (1983) [pdf]</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=9750349">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=9750349</a> - June 2015 (5 comments)<p><i>Ask HN: Cyc – Whatever happened to its connection to AI?</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=9566015">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=9566015</a> - May 2015 (3 comments)<p><i>Eurisko, The Computer With A Mind Of Its Own</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=2111826">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=2111826</a> - Jan 2011 (9 comments)<p><i>Open Cyc (open source common sense)</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=1913994">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=1913994</a> - Nov 2010 (22 comments)<p><i>Lenat (of Cyc) reviews Wolfram Alpha</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=510579">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=510579</a> - March 2009 (16 comments)<p><i>Eurisko, The Computer With A Mind Of Its Own</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=396796">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=396796</a> - Dec 2008 (13 comments)<p><i>Cycorp, Inc. (Attempt at Common Sense AI)</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=20725">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=20725</a> - May 2007 (1 comment)
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xpeover 1 year ago
Perhaps some here aren&#x27;t familiar with the existence of a (relatively useless in my opinion) POV that pits symbolic systems against statistical methods. But it isn&#x27;t a zero-sum game. Informed, insightful comparisons are useful, but &quot;holy wars&quot; are not. See also [1] for broad commentary and [2] for a particular application.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;medium.com&#x2F;@jcbaillie&#x2F;beyond-the-symbolic-vs-non-symbolic-ai-debate-96dffce7270c" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;medium.com&#x2F;@jcbaillie&#x2F;beyond-the-symbolic-vs-non-sym...</a><p>[2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;past.date-conference.com&#x2F;proceedings-archive&#x2F;2016&#x2F;pdf&#x2F;0954.pdf" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;past.date-conference.com&#x2F;proceedings-archive&#x2F;2016&#x2F;pd...</a>
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Jun8over 1 year ago
Ahh, another one of the old guard has moved on. Here are two excerpts from the book <i>AI: The Tumultuous History Of The Search For Artificial Intelligence</i> (a fantastic read of the early days of AI) to remember him by;<p>&quot;Lenat found out about computers in a a manner typical of his entrepreneurial spirit. As a high school student in Philadelphia, working for $1.00 an hour to clean the cages of experimental animals, he discovered that another student was earning $1.50 to program the institution&#x27;s minicomputer. Finding this occupation more to his liking, he taught himself programming over a weekend and squeezed his competitor out of the job by offering to work for fifty cents an hour less.31 A few years later, Lenat was programming Automated Mathematician (AM, for short) as a doctoral thesis project at the Stanford AI Laboratory.&quot; p. 178<p>And here&#x27;s an count of an early victory for AI in gaming against humans by Lenat&#x27;s EURISKO system (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Eurisko" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Eurisko</a>):<p>&quot;Ever the achiever, Lenat was looking for a more dramatic way to prove teh capabilities of his creation. The identified the occasion space-war game called Traveler TCS, then quite popular with the public Lenat wanted to reach. The idea was for each player to design a fleet of space battleships according to a thick, hundred-page set of rules. Within a budget limit of one trillion galactic credits, one could adjust such parameters as the size, speed, armor thickness, autonomy and armament of each ship: about fifty adjustments per ship were needed. Since the fleet size could reach a hundred ships, the game thus offered ample room for ingenuity in spite of the anticlimactic character of the battles. These were fought by throwing dice following complex tables based on probability of survival of each ship according to its design. The winner of the yearly national championship was commissioned inter galactic admiral and received title to a planet of his or her choice ouside the solar system.<p>Several months before the 1981 competition, Lenat fed into EURISKO 146 Traveler concepts, ranging from the nature of games in general to the technicalities of meson guns. He then instructed the program to develop heuristics for making winning war-fleet designs. The now familiar routine of nightly computer runs turned into a merciless Darwinian contest: Lenat and EURISKO together designed fleets that battled each other. Designs were evaluated by how well they won battles, and heuristics by how well they designed fleets. This rating method required several battles per design, and several designs per heuristic, which amounted to a lot of battles: ten thousand in all, fought over two thousand hours of computer time.<p>To participants in the national championship of San Mateo,California, the resulting fleet of ninety-six small, heavily armored ships looked ludicrous. Accepted wisdom dictated fleets of about twenty behemoth ships, and many couldn&#x27;t help laughing. When engagements started, they found out that the weird armada held more than met the eye. One interesting ace up Lenat&#x27;s sleeve was a small ship so fast as to be almost unstoppable, which guaranteed at least a draw. EURISKO had conceived of it through the &quot;look for extreme cases&quot; heuristic (which had mutated, incidentally, into mutated, incidentally, into &quot;look for almost extreme cases&quot;).&quot; p. 182<p>If you&#x27;re a young person working in AI, by which I mean you&#x27;re less than 30, and if you have not already done so, you should read about AI history in three decade 60s - 90s.
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detourdogover 1 year ago
I still intend to integrate OpenCyc.
dpqover 1 year ago
Doug was one of my childhood heroes, thanks to a certain book telling the story of his work on AM and Eurisko. My great regret is that I never got the chance to meet him or contribute to his work in any way. RIP Doug, you are a legend.
Nevermarkover 1 year ago
&gt; I have spent my whole career […], Lenat was light-years ahead of me […]<p>Lenat is on a short list of people I expected&#x2F;hoped to meet at some point when context provided the practical reason.<p>He has been a hero to me for his creativity and fearlessness regarding his symbolic vision.<p>So sad I will never meet him, but my appreciation for him will never die.
bpicheover 1 year ago
Worked with their ontologists for a couple of years. Someone once told me that they employed more philosophers per capita than any other software company. A dubious distinction, maybe. But it describes the culture of inquisitiveness there pretty well too
jonahbentonover 1 year ago
Oh, so sorry to hear that. Good summary of his work- the Cyc project- on the twitter thread. Had missed that last paper- with Gary Marcus- on Cyc and LLM.
bradorover 1 year ago
Anyone know how he died? I can&#x27;t find any information about it but someone mentioned heart attack on Reddit?
Eliezerover 1 year ago
Very visceral oof. I don&#x27;t remember a time when I knew about AI but not about Eurisko.
martin1975over 1 year ago
72 isn&#x27;t really too old. Does anyone know what caused his death? Revenge of the COVID?
brindlejimover 1 year ago
While I respect Doug&#x27;s intelligence, he showed a kind of perverse persistence in a failed idea, and I think it&#x27;s telling that aspiring AI czar Gary Marcus admires the ruins of Cyc while neglecting to acknowledge that it represents a dead end in AI. Like science, the field of AI advances one funeral at a time. Doug pursued a pipe dream, and convinced others to do the same, despite the brittle and static nature of the AI he sought to build. Cyc was not a precursor to OpenAI, contrary to other comments in this thread. That would be like calling the zeppelin the precursor of the jet. It represents a different school of technology, and a much less effective one.
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