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Webb Discovers Methane, Carbon Dioxide in Atmosphere of K2-18B

235 pointsby wfurneyover 1 year ago

21 comments

v8xiover 1 year ago
In Nick Lane's Oxygen: The Molecule that Made the World, he talks about the importance of both methane and carbon dioxide and how they exist at the extremes of a complex metabolic oxidation-reduction cycle. Methane stores a lot of chemical energy in its C-H bonds which can be burned directly, or metabolized through repeat oxidation events to ultimately form CO2, which plants utilize with the help of the sun to form more CH bonds before ultimately breaking down into methane again. Hence, an exoplanet with both molecules in its atmosphere is a promising candidate in the search for life.
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perihelionsover 1 year ago
What an unintuitive and sketchy-looking Bayesian model. They only have 11 chemicals in the database they&#x27;re matching that messy IR spectrum against: 6 reasonable ones, and 5 bullshit ones that are only there because theory papers suggested that they&#x27;d be biomarkers of alien life. And, fit to just those 11 chemicals, the best-fit includes one of the bullshit ones (dimethyl sulfide, (CH₃)₂S).<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;stsci-opo.org&#x2F;STScI-01HA2G716KS9YGAGVY1WBVFJ8Y.pdf" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;stsci-opo.org&#x2F;STScI-01HA2G716KS9YGAGVY1WBVFJ8Y.pdf</a><p>Is this approach, like, sane? I&#x27;m not a Bayesian statistics expert.
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julienchastangover 1 year ago
On this topic, I just finished reading &quot;A Very Short Introduction to Planetary Systems&quot;[0] by Raymond T. Pierrehumbert. He devotes a good portion of the book to exoplanet atmospheres. It is one of the best science books I&#x27;ve read. Pierrehumbert really has a knack for explaining complex material clearly and concisely. I really recommend it.<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;global.oup.com&#x2F;academic&#x2F;product&#x2F;planetary-systems-a-very-short-introduction-9780198841128?cc=us&amp;lang=en&amp;" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;global.oup.com&#x2F;academic&#x2F;product&#x2F;planetary-systems-a-...</a>
nofitty376over 1 year ago
That spectrum is so noisy. How can they infer the blue fit from the (noisy) white points? The data look almost consistent with flat (no detection). And even if there is a detection, it looks like many other models could potentially fit the data...
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sgt101over 1 year ago
Gosh - imagine that place!<p>I wonder how old this world is, and how stable its enviroment is&#x2F;has been. Complex animal life took 3.5 bn years to emerge on Earth, of course that&#x27;s a meaningless data point by itself but intuitively for this place to have an ecosystem or complex life it needs to be old.<p>Still, even without this what a wonderful and weird environment.
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Jeff_Brownover 1 year ago
In case you wondered too, this is 124 light-years from us.
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kaycebasquesover 1 year ago
It&#x27;s mind-bendingly cool that people can figure out the composition of an atmosphere without actually being close to that atmosphere.<p>Had not heard of dimethyl sulfide before. That&#x27;s a good keyword to know.
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coutover 1 year ago
&gt; These initial Webb observations also provided a possible detection of a molecule called dimethyl sulfide (DMS). On Earth, this is only produced by life. The bulk of the DMS in Earth’s atmosphere is emitted from phytoplankton in marine environments.<p>Given a sufficient quantity of reactants&#x2F;reagents, could DMS be produced via a natural process, or is this a sufficiently unfavorable reaction that it&#x27;s unlikely?
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nickhalfasleepover 1 year ago
Scientists using Webb may be able to present some surprisingly strong evidence that we are not the only life bearing planet in the galaxy.
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lofaszvanittover 1 year ago
120 light years away. Time to get the ufo tech out already.
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skywal_lover 1 year ago
Seems to be down. This page seems to work: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;webbtelescope.org&#x2F;contents&#x2F;news-releases&#x2F;2023&#x2F;news-2023-139" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;webbtelescope.org&#x2F;contents&#x2F;news-releases&#x2F;2023&#x2F;news-2...</a>
billforsternzover 1 year ago
I picked up a random book in the science section of the city library today and opening it to a random page I started reading about an exciting &quot;goldilocks&quot; exoplanet discovery from 2015. Apparently this was the first exo-planet which had a positive spectroscopic identification of water in the atmosphere. It was a rocky world, 2 billion years old, 8 times Earth&#x27;s size (mass?), on a 33 day orbit around a red dwarf. K-something-or-other. The book said the really exciting discoveries will happen when Webb comes online in 2021. The link is down, but someone mentions this planet is 8 x Earth size down thread. I wonder if it&#x27;s the same planet?
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wfurneyover 1 year ago
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.archive.org&#x2F;web&#x2F;20230911143418&#x2F;https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nasa.gov&#x2F;goddard&#x2F;2023&#x2F;webb-discovers-methane-carbon-dioxide-in-atmosphere-of-k2-18b" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.archive.org&#x2F;web&#x2F;20230911143418&#x2F;https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nasa....</a>
rbanffyover 1 year ago
Ugh. If my napkin math is right, it&#x27;s about 2G&#x27;s for the same density as Earth.<p>Very unpleasant planet.
divbzeroover 1 year ago
&gt; &quot;Our ultimate goal is the identification of life on a habitable exoplanet, which would transform our understanding of our place in the universe,&quot; concluded Madhusudhan.<p>What sort of observation or measurement would allow us to identify life on an exoplanet?
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jncfhnbover 1 year ago
Suppose a planet like this had non intelligent megafauna life. How could we detect this?
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ZunarJ5over 1 year ago
This feels like a big deal. The website seems to be getting hammered as it is working on and off.
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bayesianbotover 1 year ago
404 not found, did they maybe remove the article for some reason?
fritzoover 1 year ago
Paywalled paper: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nature.com&#x2F;articles&#x2F;s41550-019-0878-9" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nature.com&#x2F;articles&#x2F;s41550-019-0878-9</a><p>Preprint: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;arxiv.org&#x2F;abs&#x2F;1909.05218" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;arxiv.org&#x2F;abs&#x2F;1909.05218</a><p>Figure 2 pp. 14 of the preprint shows much more plausible error bounds on the curve fit. That press release &quot;best fit&quot; curve is merely an artist&#x27;s conception.
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biggestlouover 1 year ago
I’m still looking for intelligent life on <i>this</i> planet
swader999over 1 year ago
Nice to know we aren&#x27;t the only ones struggling with CO2.