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Tragedy of return to hostile offices

164 pointsby benjiweberover 1 year ago

28 comments

tristorover 1 year ago
One of the primary reasons that remote work improves productivity is that it allows employees to tailor their environment to their needs, rather than be forced into a hostile office space that requires kafkaesque bureaucratic bullshit to make even minor changes.<p>I once had a former employer force me to take an espresso machine home that I had brought to work because it created a situation where a different shift was coming to our teams area to use it when we weren’t there and they were concerned by the liability. Very non-specific concerns, I might add. So rather than ensure teams had access to real coffee they banned employees having their own coffee equipment so we can all commiserate together over the bottom dollar filth in the break room.<p>This is the type of basic shit most companies can’t get right, much less the far more complicated challenges involved in creating positive team dynamics.<p>I have no faith that any sufficiently large company can make an inviting office environment, and this is a major reason why I am a staunch remote work advocate.
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iteratethisover 1 year ago
A lot of people work virtually regardless of their location. You can return to the office but it doesn&#x27;t stop. You still work as if it was remote because there will always be somebody in the meeting that isn&#x27;t there. They could be at home, in a different building, or a vendor in another country.<p>Such is the consequence of complex organizations and outsourcing, as well as employees increasing demands to have a say in their schedule.<p>When you really think about it, collaboration is the problem rather than the solution. The modern distributed nature of work means that you need a huge amount of collaboration to even figure out what to do, when, and to resolve all dependencies.<p>So it&#x27;s pretty maddening that managers call for more collaboration. We need less of it. The perfect workflow is where you tell me with clarity what to do, and then let me do it without distractions or changing everything halfway-through.<p>Modern employees spent half their time in email, chat and meetings. Not producing anything. And that&#x27;s generous, quite a few have to find actual productive time in the fragmented 10% of their schedule. It&#x27;s as if we&#x27;ve all become managers.
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karaterobotover 1 year ago
I like the phrase &quot;serendipity is not a strategy&quot;, it gets to my biggest complaint about the arguments for going back to the office. Your shitty open plan office was never MIT Building 20 before the pandemic, and it&#x27;s not going to become a womb of creativity after the pandemic just because you want it to be so. The way I know that is because you have to threaten people to come back to it, if it was special at all they&#x27;d come back on their own.
manuelabeledoover 1 year ago
In some ways, OP’s suggestions are a recipe for building hostile teams!<p>Why would I be entitled to interrupt someone to review my code, just because they are sitting next to me?<p>Always on zoom? No, thanks. It invariably devolves into micromanaging.<p>Constant KPI awareness? Most companies cannot even agree on how a valuable KPI looks like.<p>Remote pair programming? Honest question here, is pair programming still a thing?
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Devastaover 1 year ago
I work in Cork, Ireland. My boss is in Dublin, his boss Singapore, my staff in Nova Scotia, Devs in Manila, clients in London and New York. I&#x27;m always working remotely, no matter where I am, as is anyone who works in any multi office company.<p>The RTO is being entirely driven from the top by institutional investors wanting to avoid losses on property investments and from the bottom by those who have yet to grapple with the fact they dont have friends or hobbies and need you in the office so that they dont feel like such embarrassing losers.<p>The return to office has nothing to do with productivity, trying to look at things through that lens reflects a total lack of understanding of whats going on.
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lawnover 1 year ago
I have two wonderful examples of a hostile work environment, both caused by the same boss:<p>He had the habit of playing music really, really loud from his speakers. It got so bad that they tried to relegate him to different floors and build a separate office, just for him and the lucky few that worked with him (me included).<p>Another thing he did was being his dog to the office despite there being people allergic to dogs in the office.<p>And people are trying to force everyone nack to the office because of &quot;collaboration&quot;.
bilsbieover 1 year ago
I still remember the time we had no space for an intern to sit so we had to put him in an empty VP office.<p>But only senior people could have windows so they covered his windows in cardboard …
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hotnfreshover 1 year ago
&gt; Mediocre teams compromise on their ways of working to avoid conflict;<p>Yeah, well, conflict with the corporate overlords tends to be pretty one-sided, so we’ll need to attack that problem if you want that to change. There <i>are</i> proven approaches. But this isn’t “compromise”, it’s workers having their work environment dictated to them.<p>&gt; sacrificing their team’s potential on the altar of individual autonomy.<p>Oh wow, uh, that was not the direction I expected the rest of that sentence to go.<p>&gt; I’ve experienced some of my most joyful work in teams working together in the same space. I’ve benefited from flexibility and inclusion with remote work. I’ve also been able to contribute as part of larger open source communities where I couldn’t even know everyone by name.<p>On the topic of knowing everyone by name: so <i>very</i> much easier remote. Real people don’t have a name tag next to every statement they make, or hovering under their face at all times. Much harder in person.
varispeedover 1 year ago
&gt; Working physically together, in the same space, as a whole team, can be extremely enabling.<p>I am still not convinced &quot;in the same space&quot; makes any difference. I couldn&#x27;t care less if co-worker is sitting next to me or on the other side of the country. But in person, you get an extra cognitive load of being around people. Someone brings smelly sandwich, someone else forgot to shower then another one keeps chewing gum and making loud mouth noises.<p>&gt; Supporting a joyful environment.<p>One man&#x27;s joy is another man misery. Certainly having people making morning journey from across the country and then observing how they &quot;work&quot; may be joyful experience for a manager feeling insecure.<p>Best compromise I saw is that if someone can&#x27;t work at home, company gives them vouchers at their local co-working space of their choosing. No commute and office experience.
baz00over 1 year ago
I love the discussion we had about RTO at my company:<p><i>Company: What are your thoughts on returning to the office?</i><p><i>Staff: What are your thoughts if we all say fuck off?</i><p>And that was decided.
0xbadcafebeeover 1 year ago
&gt; Most of all I get sad when I see ineffective teams with no ability or motivation to improve—whether remote or co-located.<p>This. I get that remote isn&#x27;t always practical or effective, I do. But it&#x27;s the staunch insistence on <i>one</i> way of working, and the <i>denial</i> that it needs improvement, that pisses me off so god damn much.<p>If I could actually get more work done in an office, of course I would go back. I have a huge backlog of shit to get through! But an hour commute isn&#x27;t making that easier. And we all have been in the office where half the team is spread out just because they want to get away from noise, or to find a more comfy place, or they need heads-down time without interruptions. We&#x27;ve all been in meetings where 3 people are remote just because they needed to let a repair man in at noon, or their daughter&#x27;s sick, or something&#x27;s going on. And that is fine. So what&#x27;s wrong with keeping that the same, and just not <i>requiring</i> people go in?<p>Then there&#x27;s all the other dysfunctional shit that has nothing to do with an office, where the office is the excuse to never fix it. We can&#x27;t figure out our online communications? No problem, just buy a big room and shove people in it and they can just walk up to each other all the time. We can&#x27;t properly organize our documentation? Big room, shove people in it, walk up and ask where something is. No documentation? Big room, shove people, interrupt, ask how it works. Need to decide something but don&#x27;t want to have a meeting? No problem, just interrupt 5 people at once and have an impromptu meeting. Who needs to improve their business process when they can just have people interrupt each other all day and never write a single thing down?<p>Remote doesn&#x27;t magically work well either. You have to do specific things to make remote successful. I&#x27;m pretty sure the reason for mandatory return is just that they don&#x27;t want to try. Even if half the workforce wanted to work in an office, they could buy a smaller office and let workers do what they need to do. But that would still require improvements to get the remote half to work well with the in-office half, so let&#x27;s just avoid that extra work and force <i>everyone</i> into the office. That&#x27;s easy for management, but sucks for the workforce, and the business.
mk89over 1 year ago
I see this tragedy every day I wake up and from my living room window I see hundreds of cars waiting at the traffic light(s).<p>This wasn&#x27;t the case during covid, of course, and also during the beginning of post-covid.<p>It seems all is behind us. Not sure what the value of all this is, except for some people telling others how they have to live life.
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wattersover 1 year ago
If RTO drove actual, material benefits to results, companies would be explaining RTO policies by connecting those dots.<p>At this point, I haven&#x27;t seen a single attempt from any company to offer such a rationale.<p>We can reasonably infer that such policies are not rooted in any evidence-oriented analysis.
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bgidleyover 1 year ago
Page is struggling - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;yn6rk" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;yn6rk</a>
sebstefanover 1 year ago
On the flip side it&#x27;s getting increasingly easier to find top engineers when your company is fully remote
awaliasover 1 year ago
I wrote a bit about why we’ll stay remote at Supabase (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;supabase.com&#x2F;blog&#x2F;why-supabase-remote">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;supabase.com&#x2F;blog&#x2F;why-supabase-remote</a>), there’s plenty of drivers both on the company side and on the employee side.
mdgrech23over 1 year ago
I think at the team level most individuals do want to make change and work in the most efficient way possible it&#x27;s just at big multinational corporations what you can modify about your environment can be extremely limited.
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willciprianoover 1 year ago
&gt; Optimising for individual happiness can result in less of the joy that people find in teams that achieve great things together.<p>I&#x27;ll take the happiness thanks. You can keep the joy, let me know when you can share in the rewards of those achievements more robustly and I&#x27;ll consider sacrificing for it.
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walthamstowover 1 year ago
The majority in my company have forgotten what used to be quite standard office manners before covid. Hot food in the desk area of the office used to be a real no-no, likewise having notification sounds coming out of your laptop constantly.
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rossdavidhover 1 year ago
So, I have often worked remotely, think it&#x27;s fine, and makes sense in some cases. But, honestly, this is a professional-class issue, and every article about it seems written from a viewpoint that has forgotten about most of the population. The waitress and cook never had the option of working remotely, nor did the factory worker, the construction worker, the taxicab driver, the truck driver, etc. etc. Most of the population never had the option of remote work. The professional class bemoaning that they are being &quot;forced&quot; back to the office (translation: they won&#x27;t pay you to work at home) is beyond a 1st World problem; it&#x27;s a 1st World professional class problem. Even surgeons and nurses and dentists have to be &quot;at work&quot; in order to work, for the most part. The longer we bemoan being forced to go to work in order to get paid, the more the rest of the population becomes convinced that the professional class is entitled and a bit spoiled.
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mortallywoundedover 1 year ago
I once worked in an office where one of our engineers ended up moving out of the open office into an office of his own.<p>He would often get offended in the open office around the other engineers. Why? Language. He once asked me not to say &quot;damn&quot; around him because he&#x27;s very religious.<p>It was a C&#x2F;C++&#x2F;C# codebase, so that was never going to happen.
lobstersliveover 1 year ago
Having your own private bathroom is a <i>really</i> underrated perk of WFH. There are of course many more benefits to WFH, but using your own bathroom is something no office and their disgusting communal bathrooms could ever compete with.
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rpastuszakover 1 year ago
mirror: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.archive.org&#x2F;web&#x2F;20231113133642&#x2F;https:&#x2F;&#x2F;benjiweber.co.uk&#x2F;blog&#x2F;2023&#x2F;11&#x2F;12&#x2F;tragedy-of-return-to-hostile-offices&#x2F;" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.archive.org&#x2F;web&#x2F;20231113133642&#x2F;https:&#x2F;&#x2F;benjiwebe...</a>
paulcoleover 1 year ago
&gt; Every successful company needs to have the most talented people. The most talented people no longer live in, or want to live in the same place<p>Completely false. There are more successful companies than there are most talented people.
lr1970over 1 year ago
I am curious that nobody has not mentioned a great movie &quot;Office Space&quot;. A brilliant sarcastic comedy about office culture in the late nineties. I think the time is ripe for a sequel.
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jibbitover 1 year ago
I&#x27;ve never worked in an office where the thermostat wasn&#x27;t controlled by a sociopath
fnordpigletover 1 year ago
The author really doesn’t help their point by dwelling on the sacrifice of the individual for the team. A team that doesn’t maximize the value of the individuals by finding ways they complement each other in their differences will always be less than it could be. And too much have we asked individuals to sacrifice for too long for too little.<p>The way we used to work is an emergent reality that had begun to fray long before the pandemic, see multilocation strategies, selective remote working options, hotel seating with over subscribed occupancy. The cost of commercial real estate was already being eyed carefully. As a senior executive in multinational mega corps I can tell you definitively “bring your own office” in 2019 was seen as bigger than “bring your own device” in terms of potential to reduce cost, increase productivity, and maximize EPS. The biggest barrier was the 5-10 year real estate development and tax abatement cycles, but you were already seeing compression of available seating and over subscription with a 10 year plan to compress to only essential coworking. Further, while panned now, the WeWork model was seen as the future - essentially elastic occupancy as opex, burstable cloud like office space flexibly located where the talent lives.<p>The pandemic accelerated this stepwise from 20% to 100% overnight. I could see it in the eyes of the CEOs as they saw the culture they understood disappear overnight and the emotional entrenchment that “this can’t be allowed to persist.” Despite all the prior plans and agreement, an emotional reaction took hold. They saw the productivity improvements and were unswayed. It wasn’t about money, it wasn’t about productivity, it wasn’t about efficiencies. It was about a way of living being threatened, a way the CEOs were manifestly beneficiaries of, and was the only lifestyle they knew and understood. They didn’t <i>want</i> things to change. To buttress their desires, tax abatements and leases obligated use of the real estate. But make no mistake, the RTO movement is almost entirely driven by a near maniacal gripping onto a way of life the decision makers benefited from and can’t let go of.<p>Joy of the team, sacrificing the individual for the greater good, watercooler serendipity, “think of the kids,” etc, are all smokescreens for the real motivations: fear of an unraveling of the emergent reality that todays leaders owe their entire successful career to, and at that level, that’s all they have in their life. That office culture is literally the cornerstone of their identity, and being more or less all narcissists, they believe their identity is the cornerstone to the world.<p>The rest of the article is pretty good. I wouldn’t stop reading based on the intro.<p>The essence is there’s a continuum of work styles along a two dimensional system (in office - remote &#x2F; sync - asynch). Each quadrant has its own benefits. They seem to assert the middle, hybrid, is the worst of all worlds, and it’s better to pick a style and lean into it. They offer a variety of ways to lean into a style.<p>IMO I think this is overly simplistic and the most efficient reality, and likely the emergent one we land in within 10 years, is a mixed reality. Coworking works well for some, doesn’t for others. The skills for a remote workplace benefit a multi location team, a hybrid team, or a fully remote team equally. Some tasks are async, some are sync. Once a team has one person not on site, the team only functions as a remote team; otherwise the person not onsite isn’t a part of the team. Recognizing that any team level work would be handled as if everyone were remote.<p>There will be a contingent who work best in an office. They will continue to have one, albeit a smaller space with fewer and fewer amenities as the occupancy cost &#x2F; person is squeezed. Those that work best remotely will land at a place that values them for the way they work best. We will continue to refine our work protocols to accommodate this new way of working. The CEOs of today will become the CEOs of yesterday. The new CEOs will be the ones who emerged ahead during the pandemic. The new mid level will be the ones who excelled in remote school and remote entry level.<p>Bring your own office will become the buzz word. Boards will see the cold hard reality of occupancy cost per head in office rising relentlessly. Tax abatements and leases will have frayed. Then, either the weworks of today or its replacement will have its day.
zx8080over 1 year ago
&gt; Mediocre teams compromise on their ways of working to avoid conflict; sacrificing their team’s potential on the altar of individual autonomy.<p>Order the team to work from office 996. Unlock their potential, don&#x27;t compromise! Kill the individual autonomy.<p>&lt;&#x2F;s&gt;