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"Et Tu, Ilya?"

132 pointsby ojosilvaover 1 year ago

23 comments

SilverBirchover 1 year ago
The only problem with this account is the idea that Ilya thought he could persuade the people of the evils of Sam. One of the most confusing parts of this whole debacle is that Sam was fired on Friday, multiple renegotiations have gone on, public statements from the new CEO, public statements from Microsoft and yet: <i>Still</i> no one has really said what Sam is meant to have done wrong that would cause him to get fired!<p>Sure, you can argue that they thought they could persuade people Sam had done something bad.... but they haven&#x27;t even tried! They&#x27;ve said basically nothing specific about what he was doing wrong.<p>You would&#x27;ve thought they knew if they were going to do it they needed a bloody good reason yet we haven&#x27;t even heard them try to justify it.
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jackconsidineover 1 year ago
This is pedantic and unnecessary, but Caesar was undefeated militarily. His battle against Pompey was remarkable because of how much the odds were stacked against him. Most of the senate sided with Pompey because his victory seemed like a foregone conclusion.<p>Worth noting that Pompey&#x27;s march was spurred at least in part by Caesar&#x27;s ambition- Stalwarts of the Republic like Cato and Cicero supported Pompey as the lesser of two evils. In short there&#x27;s a lot of nuance. (Caesar was also famous for being great to his soldiers, being apathetic about wealth, and inspiring incredible leadership)
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arxpoeticaover 1 year ago
How often do you think about the Roman Empire[1]?<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cbsnews.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;the-roman-empire-tiktok-trend-why-are-people-asking-men-how-often-think&#x2F;" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cbsnews.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;the-roman-empire-tiktok-trend-w...</a>
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highducover 1 year ago
Comparing a non-profit org to Rome? That&#x27;s quite the stretch. &quot;Ilya might have just saved this timeline&quot; is more plausible than this article
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suslikover 1 year ago
&quot;A plague on both your houses&quot; feels a more fitting classical citation.
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fb03over 1 year ago
Ilya signed the resignation petition as well (signatary #12). Now that&#x27;s confusing.
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philipwhiukover 1 year ago
The idea that a bunch of tech bros with delusions of grandeur bear comparison to the transfer of power in Ancient Rome is laughable.<p>Ilya is a guy who is on the board and supported the board decision until it was clear that the mood of the company meant that the entire project was hosed as a result, then argues that the board he himself is 1&#x2F;6th of, is incompetent.<p>This is less Ides of March, more Leopards Ate My Face.
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dude2000bcover 1 year ago
It is a good story, but facts seems to indicate that essentially the rest of the board wanted Sam out before he was not keeping them in the loop for things they didn&#x27;t want to hear. They got Ilya on their side.<p>Now they have got rid of Mira as well. Mira and Ilya and 500+ employees are threatening to quit if the board doesn&#x27;t back down.<p>So it seems Ilya was not the main driver of the coup but essentially went along with it initially but changed his opinion after seeing what that would do, but the rest of the board were not willing to back down.
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skywhopperover 1 year ago
I think this is probably the right take -- that Sam was getting more credit than others felt he deserved, and because of that attention maybe was not treating everyone with the respect they felt they deserved -- but this struck me as odd: &quot;So, Ilya .... decided to take him out. [T]hey gave us some EA reasoning about how &quot;scared&quot; they were about what Sam was pursuing...&quot;<p>Did they? I never heard any &quot;EA&quot; reasoning, or any reasoning at all from the board beyond their statement that he was insufficiently candid.
chernevikover 1 year ago
Shakespeare&#x27;s Brutus speech is brilliant, turning &quot;Brutus is an honorable man&quot; from econium to deadly sarcasm.<p>&quot;[Shakespeare&#x27;s] version of Mark Antony&#x27;s speech is probably the greatest written speech ever&quot;<p>Let us not forget the Gettysburg Address, which is the pivot point not of a factional quarrel but a national repurposing to equality, and shorter to boot.<p>Quibbling can be fun!
gigel82over 1 year ago
I believe it&#x27;s dangerous to build this cult of personality around Sam. Sure, he&#x27;s a great businessman but Musk also seemed like a smart guy in the beginning but it turns out all this idolatry corrupts and brings out the worst in people.
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dbuser99over 1 year ago
They should not have expected the OpenAI staff to follow Ilya after Sams exit. Sam’s policies are a lot more lucrative for the openAI staff. The staff is acting in their own interest as well
varjagover 1 year ago
It&#x27;s incredible how Altman&#x27;s ousting of Musk flies over the author&#x27;s head. Guess it&#x27;s easy to ignore when you are hell bent on making an overstretched analogy.
secondcomingover 1 year ago
I find it really odd that people refer to the people involved on a first name basis.<p>It&#x27;s like there&#x27;s a fan club for high-profile individuals involved in tech.
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thrwwy142857over 1 year ago
How do they bylaws work?<p>1. Voting out chairman with chairman abstaining needs only 3&#x2F;5.<p>2. Voting out CEO then requires 3&#x2F;4?<p>Did Ilya have to vote for any of this to happen?
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FrustratedMonkyover 1 year ago
Aren&#x27;t we seeing the same thing in the US?<p>Many of our institutions are more held together by &#x27;un-written social norms&#x27; and someone like Trump can just ignore them. Do laws even matter now? Just like in Rome, the positions of power do &#x27;what they can get away with&#x27;, not what any &#x27;law&#x27; says they can do.<p>The US has had past &#x27;coup&#x27; plots. Even going back to Washington. Really if Washington hadn&#x27;t been such boy scout, true believer, would we even have a US Republic?<p>Basically, the US has been more fragile than we would like to acknowledge.
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xbarover 1 year ago
This is my favorite OpenAI fanfic so far.
samrusover 1 year ago
what an imaginative count of events. this guy should definitely work on the inevitable netflix documentary.
sdfghsweover 1 year ago
HN loves telling everyone how HN is just for high quality content...<p>... unless people from SV are involved, in which case HN is flooded with gossip and drama.
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two_in_oneover 1 year ago
Too late and too little. The AI genie is out of the bottle. I&#x27;m afraid it&#x27;s stable and can defend itself.
sixQuarksover 1 year ago
What a total crock of BS. Sounds like this author is emotionally invested in Elon = Bad Man narrative.
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aakilover 1 year ago
I’m a bit surprised of how antagonistic HN is against the builders, Sam was&#x2F;is a Seller, it’s a needed function to pair with Builders, but no one can reasonably say that Sam built anything, Ilya and the safety contingent are the builders, but somehow the mob is angry at them for protecting what they made from the Sellers, kind of hard to see us becoming so profit motivated that we choose IBM over Woz
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tikkunover 1 year ago
My hope for the situation is that we can give as much compassion as possible to all involved.<p>My hope is that the people around Ilya give him compassion and love. He will be experiencing sadness, regret, and grief. I hope he gets lots of good emotional support.<p>Same for Sam, same for all employees.<p>My hope for Ilya is that once the dust settles, instead of getting people scared about AI safety by talking to them, he gives people the experience he had. Give the training data, not the output. You can&#x27;t reason someone into or out of a position that they didn&#x27;t reason themselves into. People don&#x27;t get into opinions from a place of reasoning but from a place of emotion and experience. To help someone shift their opinion, we need to give them experience.<p>There are some interesting religious lenses on the situation. It certainly will remind people a bit of a crucifixion scenario where we may see Sam and Greg emerge three days later within a new company. It&#x27;s kind of like a Phoenix from the ashes, like Aslan in Narnia, which of course is also based on the story of Christ. Humans like stories of scapegoats and people being attacked and then being defended. One of the things we&#x27;ve seen is a massive outpouring of support for Sam Altman on Twitter, particularly from so many random founders and people in tech that he helped whether they were nobodies or already successful. When someone gets attacked publicly in a way that people dislike or when it’s a person people really like and like more than the perceived attacker, then they have a lot of other people that then want to come and defend them.<p>I hope everyone involved realizes that debate doesn&#x27;t accomplish much other than polarization and tribalization, and that people instead seek to make the other side feel understood. And give the other side the experiences that gave them their own preferences&#x2F;feelings, rather than trying to convince them to feel the same way. And generally, help people emotionally regulate instead of going into debate or commiserating by sharing negative things about other parties involved.<p>(Don’t tweet while angry, instead, share your emotions with a friend, then tweet after you’re feeling neutral and peaceful!)<p>Overall, I hope people minimize attacks. I hope that people directly express their own emotions so that they don&#x27;t come out in other ways cloaked in rationalizations. This will help people avoid derogatory comments towards people. Sharing specific facts and specific stories can be okay, but avoiding miscellaneous negative judgment in any direction. I hope that people from all directions can see that everyone involved is just doing what they felt was good, and there&#x27;s a good chance that you would have done something similar if you had the same genetics and upbringing. I hope everyone involved realizes that debate doesn&#x27;t accomplish much other than polarization and tribalization…<p>Reminder: Any attack or vitriol makes the person defend themselves, and defending themselves make them more of whatever they are defending themselves against.<p>There will be a lot of people experiencing varying degrees of grief in the startup and AI ecosystems in the coming week.<p>Ideally, everyone involved just goes in and gets a really good Swedish relaxation massage, is feeling super peaceful, helping all those around them feel equally peaceful, focusing on releasing and processing their emotions. I believe this moment is potentially a critical moment in history, and the more emotional regulation the people involved in the industry can do over the coming weeks, the better. I believe the future is path-dependent and depends on the present. Generally, we get more of what we have, so the more peace we can have in the present, the more peace we&#x27;re likely to have in the future. I hope we can all maximize empathy and understanding for all the people involved and minimize polarization and tribalization. I hope people try to make others feel understood and focus on emotional regulation.<p>Emotional regulation and open-mindedness are vital when facing unexpected and influential incidents.
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