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When the New York Times lost its way

64 pointsby systemstopsover 1 year ago

18 comments

bryanlarsenover 1 year ago
For me it was this: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;theintercept.com&#x2F;2023&#x2F;03&#x2F;30&#x2F;new-york-times-iraq-war-error&#x2F;" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;theintercept.com&#x2F;2023&#x2F;03&#x2F;30&#x2F;new-york-times-iraq-war-...</a><p>I believed the Iraq WMD narrative. I didn&#x27;t trust the US government not to lie to me. I expected the NYT to have bias; I didn&#x27;t expect the NYT to egregiously lie.
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atonseover 1 year ago
I&#x27;m generally center-left-leaning and a paying subscriber to the NYT and I&#x27;ve felt this way for years now. But still stuck because it is sadly still my main source of news, but increasingly opinionated. And occasionally I find pieces on the economist and FT refreshingly just informative.<p>With the NYT, I&#x27;ve often found myself reading articles and checking 2-3 times if I&#x27;m accidentally reading an op-ed piece instead of an article due to the obvious bias (even if that bias happens to agree with my politics, I don&#x27;t want the bias there... I just want the information).<p>Or finding that articles that would normally belong in the New Yorker or NY Times Magazine are in the main &quot;newspaper&quot; (if those distinctions even make sense anymore).<p>But occasionally they do good work. But that&#x27;s increasingly rare.
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giardiniover 1 year ago
<i>&quot;The reality is that the Times is becoming the publication through which America’s progressive elite talks to itself about an America that does not really exist.&quot;</i><p>- Summarizes what has happened but doesn&#x27;t properly attribute the causes of what happened. Author remains in denial.
karaterobotover 1 year ago
Having read the whole article, I thought it was sobering, well-written, maybe a little too exhaustive for a convenient dalliance during the workday, but worth reading if you have not already.
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syndicatedjellyover 1 year ago
<p><pre><code> That op-ed was a tough editorial call. It troubles my conscience as publishing Tom Cotton never has. But the reason is not that the writer, Sirajuddin Haqqani, the deputy leader of the Taliban, kidnapped a Times reporter (David Rohde, now of NBC, with whom I covered the Israeli siege of Jenin on the West Bank 20 years ago; he would never be afraid of an op-ed). The case against that piece is that Haqqani, who remains on the FBI’s most-wanted terrorist list, may have killed Americans. It’s puzzling: in what moral universe can it be a point of pride to publish a piece by an enemy who may have American blood on his hands, and a matter of shame to publish a piece by an American senator arguing for American troops to protect Americans?</code></pre>
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mitchbobover 1 year ago
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;2023.12.14-195852&#x2F;https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.economist.com&#x2F;1843&#x2F;2023&#x2F;12&#x2F;14&#x2F;when-the-new-york-times-lost-its-way" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;2023.12.14-195852&#x2F;https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.economist.c...</a>
interesticaover 1 year ago
I made this bookmarklet which lets you quickly view the day&#x27;s printed front page. It usually goes live in the early hours of the day:<p><pre><code> javascript: link=today=new Date();dd=today.getDate();mm=today.getMonth()+1;window.location=&quot;https:&#x2F;&#x2F;static01.nyt.com&#x2F;images&#x2F;&quot;+today.getFullYear()+&#x27;&#x2F;&#x27;+((mm&lt;10)?%270%27+mm:mm)+%27&#x2F;%27+((dd&lt;10)?%270%27+dd:dd)+&quot;&#x2F;nytfrontpage&#x2F;scan.pdf&quot;;</code></pre>
xkcd-sucksover 1 year ago
Interesting this timeline of the NYT &quot;losing its way&quot; only begins at the point of <i>allowing</i> Trump to be elected - I seem to recall a lot of stuff written in that paper around 2001 which was obviously not consistent with the ethical and professional practice of journalism, to the degree that we as middle-schoolers learned the concept of &quot;manufacturing consent&quot; to describe what was happening in the news. And the timeline begins here for me just due to age; probably it goes back further
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99_00over 1 year ago
The NYT and elite Universities bit the hand that fed them.<p>‘Buying Quiet’: Inside the Israeli Plan That Propped Up Hamas<p>Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu gambled that a strong Hamas (but not too strong) would keep the peace and reduce pressure for a Palestinian state.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;2023&#x2F;12&#x2F;10&#x2F;world&#x2F;middleeast&#x2F;israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;2023&#x2F;12&#x2F;10&#x2F;world&#x2F;middleeast&#x2F;israel-q...</a>
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iamdeliriumover 1 year ago
Yeah, the author has only himself to blame. Guy didn’t even read the op-ed before he published it.<p>How can you run an editorial board and not do the minimum it requires.
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Jiroover 1 year ago
I don&#x27;t see the phrase &quot;Scott Alexander&quot; anywhere in this article.
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korginatorover 1 year ago
For years, the New York Times has had a cosy relationship with the China Daily which itself is a mouthpiece of the Chinese communist party.<p>I remember seeing several pro-China op-eds and advertorials in the NYT during the pre-Covid days, scratching my head wondering if I was in a different universe.<p>At the same time, there were several dozen covert and overt editorials that bashed countries and governments that were not pro-China. For example they continue to publish several blatant anti-Indian and anti-Hindu pieces which sound more like sensationalist attention-grabbing propaganda.<p>As a former paid subscriber to the NYT, it&#x27;s sobering and sad to see how they have pivoted and where they&#x27;re headed.
mrangleover 1 year ago
Media relies on generational amnesia to recover its credibility. Go back any number of decades and the clumsy partisan propaganda will be evident, in a manner that is insistent on steering major events or their responses. Pick any decade.<p>A fun and particularly relevant thought experiment is to imagine what the media coverage would have been for Donald Trump should he have been President during the 9&#x2F;11 attacks. Would the media have sought to convene the nation around leadership, as it did, or would it have tried to remove the leadership for criminal incompetence at the least?<p>The MSM seeks to dictate the limits of acceptable democracy to the limits of its preferred agendas. When that effort failed, it incited and covered for eight months of pre-election riots that killed two and half dozen citizens. It then internally lashed out when a contrary voice was mistakenly printed.
debatem1over 1 year ago
From the article:<p>&quot;These qualities have for generations been helpful in contending with the Times’s familiar problem, which is liberal bias.&quot;<p>The NYT lost its way when it internalized the right wing&#x27;s framing of them as having the hated liberal bias. It was always an effort to work the ref, affirmative action for Republican blowhards.<p>As we&#x27;ve seen in the years since no one is more grievously wounded by that than serious and substantive people on the right, who are now an endangered species not just on the pages of the NYT but in American public life more broadly.
bequannaover 1 year ago
Trump, Trump, Trump.<p>Is anyone else sick of living in a world where that is the media’s answer to literally every question?
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vikneshover 1 year ago
As someone who once had an NYT subscription (no longer) and now has an Economist subscription, I totally agree with the sentiment. The Economist absolutely has an angle, but it comes across with much more explanation of the objective facts around a given situation, akin to a 3rd party observer explaining an issue and their opinion of it. In contrast, the NYT is quite patronizing, with half-assed attempts to explain &quot;both sides,&quot; but you always know what the &quot;right side&quot; is.<p>Edit: I think this quote from the article summarizes the NYT shift:<p>&gt; Focusing on potential perpetrators – “platforming” them by explaining rather than judging their views – is believed to empower them to do more harm.<p>&gt; Trying to be helpful, one of the top newsroom editors urged me to start attaching trigger warnings to pieces by conservatives. It had not occurred to him how this would stigmatise certain colleagues, or what it would say to the world about the Times’s own bias.<p>&gt; I came to think of the people who were fragile, the ones who were caught up in Slack or Twitter storms, as people who had only recently discovered that they were white and were still getting over the shock. Having concluded they had got ahead by working hard, it has been a revelation to them that their skin colour was not just part of the wallpaper of American life, but a source of power, protection and advancement.<p>&gt; At one point, Baquet, musing about how the Times was changing, observed that one of the newsroom’s cultural critics had become the paper’s best political-opinion columnist. Taking this musing one step further, I then noted that this raised an obvious question: why did the paper still have an Opinion department separate from the newsroom, with its own editor reporting directly to the publisher? If the newsroom was publishing the best opinion journalism at the paper – if it was publishing opinion at all – why did the Times maintain a separate department that falsely claimed to have a monopoly on such journalism?<p>&gt; The Opinion department is a relic of the era when the Times enforced a line between news and opinion journalism.... by the time I returned as editorial-page editor, more opinion columnists and critics were writing for the newsroom than for Opinion.<p>&gt; The Times could learn something from the Wall Street Journal, which has kept its journalistic poise. It has maintained a stricter separation between its news and opinion journalism...Journal reporters and other staff attempted a similar assault on their opinion department. “Their anxieties aren’t our responsibility,” shrugged the Journal’s editorial board in a note to readers after the letter was leaked. “The signers report to the news editors or other parts of the business.” The editorial added, in case anyone missed the point, “We are not the New York Times.” That was the end of it.
entropyieover 1 year ago
Iraq... End of story
exabrialover 1 year ago
The NYT lost its way when it became the premier propaganda outlet for the Democratic Party, even going so far to justify outlandishly unscientific claims in the name of pleasing&#x2F;deluding the voting base.