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Neumann Drive: A Pulsed Cathodic Arc Thruster for Spacecrafts

112 pointsby LastNevadanover 1 year ago

19 comments

throwup238over 1 year ago
That looks awesome! The photo of the plasma discharge from the solid molybdenum fuel rod in the datasheet is worth looking at [1], perfectly illustrating the &quot;Centre-Triggered Pulsed Cathodic Arc&quot; that is the basis for this thruster.<p>The ion and hall effect thrusters that this drive would replace require a propellant tank to hold xenon, krypton, iodine, etc. so integrating them is a bit of a pain in the ass. Anyone know how the mass stacks up though? Hall effect thrusters from Busek have a (much) higher power&#x2F;mass ratio but that doesn&#x27;t include the propellant tank.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;neumannspace.com&#x2F;wp-content&#x2F;uploads&#x2F;2023&#x2F;09&#x2F;Neumann-Drive-Datasheet_Sept-2023.pdf" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;neumannspace.com&#x2F;wp-content&#x2F;uploads&#x2F;2023&#x2F;09&#x2F;Neumann-...</a>
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api_or_ipaover 1 year ago
Very cool. I love seeing development in commercial non-chemical-propellant technologies.<p>Question about the total impulse. For ND-500+, they claim up to 250kNs of total impulse and a wet mass of 10-20kg. Assuming a spacecraft mass of about 100kg, and a fuel payload of 10kg, that&#x27;s only about 2000m&#x2F;s dV. Not enough to go to Mars, but enough to extend an LEO mission or to send a tug to deorbit space junk.<p>Anyone know how much one of these might cost?
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dallasover 1 year ago
I&#x27;m a little out of touch with the space-related investment right now in Adelaide, so I hadn&#x27;t heard of these guys, but as soon as I saw that airport photo on the main page I knew where they were based! :)
tevonover 1 year ago
This whole post excitingly reads like star wars.<p>Can someone with an electrical or physics background help translate what this means &quot;Our propulsion system uses a cathodic arc discharge powered by a capacitor bank&quot;?<p>I take it it uses capacitors to release larges amounts of electricity on a given period, thus producing plasma which creates propulsion?
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p1mrxover 1 year ago
&gt; We have found that refractory metals such as molybdenum make excellent propellants, and recycled aluminium alloys can also be used. Exceptions include mercury and gallium, tin, bismuth and lithium (due to their low melting points), cadmium and technetium.<p>Oh darn, I was hoping they&#x27;d found a use for all my spare technetium.
samstaveover 1 year ago
This lead me down a really cool rabbit hole:<p><i>&quot;How long would it take to throw one of these between two ISS ships spaced one AU apart&quot;</i><p>Here is the conversation - I started by asking it to define terms based on the spec sheet from Neumann, so I could fully understand how to read it. Then I wanted to figure out how these little guys would fly in space.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;chat.openai.com&#x2F;share&#x2F;b43cca9d-0eeb-4ee0-9639-043c6280776b" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;chat.openai.com&#x2F;share&#x2F;b43cca9d-0eeb-4ee0-9639-043c62...</a><p>I learned a ton about Specific Impulse, the Rocket Equation, and it lead to GPT breaking, but we came up with the formula - but before I could arrive at specific numbers - GPT race-conditioned and hallucinated on the responses. [0], [1]...<p>But the journey was really cool.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;i.imgur.com&#x2F;o0ivPy1.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;i.imgur.com&#x2F;o0ivPy1.png</a> <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;i.imgur.com&#x2F;7Y8ScUk.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;i.imgur.com&#x2F;7Y8ScUk.png</a>*
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samstaveover 1 year ago
There is an amazing researcher from MIT that is talking about autonomously self-assembling structures in space. She was on Lex Fridman [0]<p>Simply one of the most articulate people I have listened to on such an interesting subject.<p>These appear as if they may be able to be to core thruster for nodes which can be launched like starlink and then, well... star-link-up using the same orchestration software that terrestrial drones use for big displays.<p>What would the thrust capabilities be for arrays of these. If the fuel needs replacing - create little bots that can give in vacuum re fueling?<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.media.mit.edu&#x2F;articles&#x2F;ariel-ekblaw-space-colonization-and-self-assembling-space-megastructures&#x2F;" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.media.mit.edu&#x2F;articles&#x2F;ariel-ekblaw-space-coloni...</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;lexfridman.com&#x2F;ariel-ekblaw&#x2F;" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;lexfridman.com&#x2F;ariel-ekblaw&#x2F;</a>
jtriangleover 1 year ago
I wonder why they&#x27;re using Molybdenum instead of just lead. All of the thrust comes from throwing atoms out of the thruster, so, throwing something denser makes sense in my mind... surely there&#x27;s a reason?
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notaurusover 1 year ago
Nice to see some Adelaide representation! I’ve had the pleasure of working with these guys— we have a Neumann thruster on one of our satellites. Very cool technology and great team.
ortusduxover 1 year ago
Would this be a viable option for maintaining extra low earth orbits?
linker3000over 1 year ago
First thing that came to mind was how much rf noise as does this thing generate, and might it be an issue for comms?<p>Nothing I could see in the docs or FAQ.
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vcg3rdover 1 year ago
I read that as A Newman (John (Cardinal)) Drive: A Pulsed Catholic...and had to click.
camillomillerover 1 year ago
I love that we’re doing space stuff with sci-fi sounding names. Looking forward to the time when we’ll do online comparisons to decide if the family is buying a Neumann drive or a Cherenkov Drive spaceship minivan.
deepfriedchokesover 1 year ago
Plasma welders in space.
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jamiek88over 1 year ago
Wow this could be a real game changer in the new &#x2F; commercial space paradigm.<p>Perhaps lower ultimate performance but much easier logistics and reuse.
CoastalCoderover 1 year ago
Are there any videos available? I didn&#x27;t see one.
hgomersallover 1 year ago
I&#x27;m sure they spent loads of time thinking about their website, but I find these webpages that reveal information only when you scroll to them really annoying. I find it such a distraction from trying to digest the content I generally give up, like I just did.
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dangover 1 year ago
We changed the URL from <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ts2.space&#x2F;en&#x2F;australian-firm-pioneers-molybdenum-fueled-space-propulsion&#x2F;" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ts2.space&#x2F;en&#x2F;australian-firm-pioneers-molybdenum-fue...</a>, which points to this.
RcouF1uZ4gsCover 1 year ago
Notice that this is not the Newman Drive which is A Pulsed Catholic Arc Thruster<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.m.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;John_Henry_Newman" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.m.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;John_Henry_Newman</a>