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What seven hours in London teaches me about surveillance capitalism

59 pointsby Gigamouseover 1 year ago

13 comments

coxmiover 1 year ago
The author, Brett Scott, has recently released a book called &quot;Cloudmoney: Why the War on Cash Endangers Our Freedom&quot;: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;uk.bookshop.org&#x2F;p&#x2F;books&#x2F;cloudmoney-cash-cards-crypto-and-the-war-for-our-wallets-brett-scott&#x2F;7312829?ean=9781529111484" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;uk.bookshop.org&#x2F;p&#x2F;books&#x2F;cloudmoney-cash-cards-crypto...</a><p>There&#x27;s also a good long form interview with him here: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=4f3PN4UOMA8" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=4f3PN4UOMA8</a>
joefifeover 1 year ago
The author talks about many aspects of traveling in London as though they are novel.<p>Signs to hold on to the handrail, or to report antisocial behaviour are not new in London - and many famous styles of public information poster originate from this area, in particular, the Underground.<p>The opening paragraphs suggest a level of paranoia, frankly.
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altaccover 1 year ago
I partially agree but early on there&#x27;s an reference to a balancing couterculture that is now missing. However basing this on his current experience of a visit to London vs living there is short sighted. Merely visiting does not let you truly experience the massive breath and depth of a city. Even people living in city only experience a minority of the city.<p>I lived in London for years, earlier than the author, and could be considered to be part of a counter culture. I have friends &amp; family still part of what I&#x27;d call counter culture in London and both then and now it was always a game of cat &amp; mouse, with alternative scenes moving and reacting to the rest of the city. The corporations definitely hold most power and alternative cultures exist where their reach fades. To find the counter culture you needed to find the hard to find and personal links to it. They&#x27;re still there, just purposefully hard to find.
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drcongoover 1 year ago
This is the best thing I&#x27;ve ever read on substack. I still remember reading 1984 on my commute, getting engrossed, not realising the music in my headphones had stopped, and then hearing the &quot;see it, say it, sorted&quot; announcement echoing through my mostly empty station. It was a surreal feeling to seemingly be inside the book I was reading.
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dghughesover 1 year ago
My little city bought a bunch of surveillance cameras nearly all installed at the request of a nearby business. Some are on roads or a community centre. They are supposedly controlled by the city police. What is funny is you could dance naked smoking crack under one and nobody on the camera command centre will notice. Total waste of money or maybe good in a way that it&#x27;s not monitored?
OliveMateover 1 year ago
I went into this expecting another &#x27;hurr UK surveillance hell CCTV cameras&#x27; hot take but what I got was much better. I wish I could write something as good as this.<p>As someone who doesn&#x27;t live close to London, it perfectly captured my thoughts on how alienated I feel in a world where I&#x27;m seen less as a person, but more of a consumer or even product. The world is feeling less legitimate as more of Big Finance creeps in and resells everything around me.
jokethrowawayover 1 year ago
I partially agree. But I also think tech is convenient.<p>My personal solution is to avoid cities. Live far enough you don&#x27;t get the cons, not too far so you can experience the benefits every once and then.
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chillingover 1 year ago
I encourage the author to try any Korean city with CCTV on basically every corner, or a Japanese city where you&#x27;re not allowed to do anything outside of pre-established rules.<p>Of course, the Western world is obsessed with &quot;anti-terrorist acts&quot; and similar nonsense, but there is plenty of space around that is still free from these obsessions
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bbg2401over 1 year ago
HN has now reached a point where trying to combat crime committed against civilians on public transport networks is derided as far right and &quot;weird&quot;. Giving people a number to call to report ongoing crime is about the least we should do.
simonbarker87over 1 year ago
Much of this reads as a a but condescending, and maybe a little pompous.<p>However, one thing touched on that drives me mad travelling in the UK now is that stupid slogan:<p>See it. Say it. Sorted*<p>It feels like we are being treated like children, stop infantilising the population. Safety is important but it’s not important above everything else.<p>I personally don’t think it’s part of some grand plan of control and brain washing. It’s just part of this “nothing bad must ever happen ever ever ever” culture we’ve got now and it’s awful.<p>* until today I always thought it it was “See it. Say it. Sort it” as I’ve only ever heard it.
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dandareover 1 year ago
The term &quot;surveillance capitalism&quot; is needlessly loaded - it has nothing to do with capitalism, neither as economic nor as political system.<p>All it tells me is that whoever started it had a left bias and whoever is using it does not know any better.
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PaulRobinsonover 1 year ago
Look, I get it. Nobody likes all the advertising everywhere, nobody wants the cameras everywhere or to be constantly reminded to look out for threats…<p>However, the advertising is no more prevalent or any different to that found in any Western democracy. It’s actually more tightly regulated in the U.K. than it is in many other countries. Determining that working class voices appeal to working class travellers (EasyJet’s core market demographic), is hardly radical. If you think that’s concerning, you should look at the data the Republicans and Democrats pull together every US Presidential election cycle…<p>As to the cameras, the warnings to look out, and so on, well it’s quite simple: the UK is one of the most terrorised countries in the Western World.<p>A strong ally of the US, a former colonial power, a country that sits on the UN Security Council and that has opinions, but much easier to reach than other countries, particularly as until recent times we had a welcoming attitude towards European, Commonwealth and other migrants, all adds up to us being a bit of a soft target. Our police officers don’t even carry guns. But then handguns are mostly illegal anyway.<p>For decades, the Provisional IRA regularly bombed and maimed their way through our cities, using their links to pariah states and money from ill-advised Americans to kill civilians in shopping malls and high streets.<p>Just yesterday I was visiting my old home city of Manchester and walked through a part of the town that caused me to remember the IRA truck bomb that detonated there in 1996. That site is just yards from the arena in which an Islamic jihadist suicide bomber killed 22 victims - some of them children - and injured over a thousand more, after building his bomb in an apartment directly across the road from where I used to live.<p>And of course even sleepy seaside towns didn’t escape the bombings, or people of status - Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher was in the hotel in Brighton in 1984 when the IRA tried to kill her and her entire cabinet.<p>These are just two examples, there are dozens more.<p>IRA Bombings were so prevalent that even today it can be hard to find a place to put your litter in a train station or other public space.<p>And this is just in England. In Belfast, it was of course so much worse.<p>In more recent years there has been jihadist extremist attacking the U.K., with multiple deadly attacks in London (my now home city), and divisive right-wing politics leading us to a point where two politicians have been murdered for no other reason than having a mild opinion their attackers didn’t agree with.<p>An inability to prosecute sexual assaults and rapes at more than a 5% conviction rate has meant an unhealthy uptick in assaults against women who just want to use public transport safely.<p>A weakened policy against cannabis use meant that mental health units are now full of young men with paranoid schizophrenia, who on release often end up committing an array of anti-social crimes.<p>A rise in alcohol and drug abuse (particularly cocaine in recent years), means incidents of violent crime and fighting have risen.<p>Homelessness - driven by a decline in social mobility, and 13 years of reckless and foolish policies hellbent on misproven “trickle down economics” - is rife with other 160,000 people expected to be homeless in London this Christmas. Many of them veterans, all of them bitter, many of them prepared to steal to survive.<p>Police officers - armed with tasers and batons only, remember - wear body cams to capture the violent assaults committed against them as a routine part of their job.<p>I love my country. Genuinely, I wouldn’t want to live anywhere else. There are many great things about it.<p>But the picture postcard view of a twee nation that sits somewhere between Mary Poppins and the Paddington films just is not that realistic.<p>There are multiple factors contributing to a need - that most people don’t recognise when used to living in other less embattled countries - built up over decades of violence, and under funded public services, that mean the only way most people feel safe after dark is knowing that everyone knows that criminal and violent behaviour is detectable, prosecutable and will be dealt with thanks to the systems none of us really want.<p>The signs telling you to stand on the right, use handrails and mind the gap are mostly there to remind drunk people - and on most weekends, most Brits are off their faces - how to not kill themselves. They have been part of the transport network since its invention. Relax.<p>We have also seen a rise in the systemisation of personal accident compensation lawyers prosecuting transport bodies, that mean public authorities like TFL who operate the tube network feel they have to do all this to reduce payouts. I think you might find similar signs in other highly litigious countries.<p>I get that it’s jarring, and I wish it was all completely unnecessary. But it’s a long road to there from here.
asdadsdadover 1 year ago
a tad dramatic?