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The Great AI Weirding

60 pointsby jamessunover 1 year ago

13 comments

mpoteatover 1 year ago
The key, from my perspective, is to focus on real work which produces real value for other human beings. In an academic context I admit that it can be difficult to attach this value to your work.<p>As well, in this article, a person bemoans the opportunities their parents gave them; piano lessons, math competitions, etc. Even though they have clearly benefited from these advantages, it&#x27;s unclear to me if the person acknowledges the position of privilege that such an upbringing grants.
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bradleyjgover 1 year ago
<i>We, collectively as a community, are forced to play these stupid RL career games because if you refuse, you become illegible and, consequently, invisible to sources of physical, emotional, and intellectual sustenance. It’s like we are all trapped in vicious cycles of RL career games while hoovering up others in these cycles.<p>Once a critical threshold of people start playing these RL career games, these terrible metrics get elevated to some weird group fairness metrics for hiring&#x2F;admissions&#x2F;compensation decisions, no matter how inequitable these games are and how disparate the outcomes are. The metric has moved beyond convenience to something hard to root out. The terrible metric becomes tyrannical, and complaining about it makes you sound like someone who “blames the game for being a bad player”. Even if it was a game you never wanted to play, to begin with.</i><p>Be the change you want to see in the world. Hire illegible people. Someone is going to tell you can’t and cite vague legal reasons. Unless that person is an actual lawyer giving formal legal advice (or your boss) just ignore him.<p>As a general matter you should always ignore non-lawyers citing vague legal reasons for why you can’t do something.
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deadlettersover 1 year ago
I thought this was going to be a biography of Weird Al
photochemsynover 1 year ago
So, I guess we&#x27;re all going to end up as rodents in a Skinner Rat Box being subjected to AI-managed operant conditioning in order to further our career goals? Surely this will lead to the creation of a Brave New World, free of all conflict and suffering - but only if we can ensure that AI is safe, properly aligned and guided by today&#x27;s government leaders and corporate executives, who have no desires other than to benefit humanity, or so they assure us.<p>It&#x27;s funny how so many designers of utopian paradises ended up creating dystopian hellholes, historically speaking, isn&#x27;t it?
unwise-exeover 1 year ago
&gt; <i>AI will make the world even more quantifiable and, in many cases, falsely quantifiable.</i><p>&gt; <i>The false quantification and rank ordering of things using AI will bring real-world weirdness in how people function, which has nothing to do with the functions they carry out. I call this the “Great AI Weirding”.</i><p>If anything AI is the sort of power tool that should let everyone make up their own rankings more easily, and be less limited by what others have decided people should be judged by.
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Der_Einzigeover 1 year ago
H index? I see people caring far more about the quality of the conference for your paper. Paper at NeurIPS or ACL or EMNLP will be worth more than papers at 2nd rate venues. Usually researchers doing real SOTA work haven’t even had time for their other work to be cited heavily yet
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thrwayaistartupover 1 year ago
The open secret is that top-quartile R1 CS faculty positions aren&#x27;t coveted anymore and don&#x27;t attract the best like they used to.<p>The choice is now between increasingly tenuous&#x2F;meaningless tenure after 5-10 years and a $500K&#x2F;year lower bound for 10-12 years. That choice is... not a hard choice for anyone who values intellectual freedom. And the right answer sure as shit isn&#x27;t the faculty position.<p>A good 50% of those faculty chasing chasing NeurIPS papers are doing so because at least once before going up for tenure they will apply for positions at big tech. They end up coming on not just non-executive, but often outside of management and at the bottom of the (Top IC)-[1-2] total comp band. If they net an offer they&#x27;ll usually leave. The major barrier to an offer is usually ego and &quot;is this personal actually humble enough to be useful to other people&quot;.
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doubloonover 1 year ago
tldr you cannot gradient descend to find the optimal human being.<p>this reminds me a lot of the recent book The Fund about Bridgewater Capital, where they tried to come up with hundreds of metrics to rate each employee on, and then they made employees constantly rate each other on an iPad with this custom software they spent massive sums of money building. If you didnt rate other people you got fired. After years and years of this it was just all abandoned, complete and total waste.
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keiferskiover 1 year ago
I think the logical and inevitable conclusion of this quantification is simply <i>throwing out</i> quantification as useful, especially when it comes to things like elite hiring decisions. What will replace it? Charisma, personality, and other attributes that simply can’t be quantified.<p>It’s easy to forget that the drive to make highly-quantified decisions is largely a recent phenomenon, with in-person charisma having a much longer history. The recent widespread dominance of online video (compared to text) is really just more of a return to this kind of charisma after a long period of textual dominance.<p>I think the future is dominated by people that understand how to use video (and way down the line, 3D presence tools), not those that are good at optimizing AI tools.<p>One example of this, I think, is how video searches on TikTok&#x2F;YouTube seem to be replacing Google searches for younger people. The searcher of 2030 isn’t going to read a perfectly individualized AI-created blog post, they’re going to watch a video by someone they trust.<p>TLDR: widespread video will herald a return to charismatic authority, displacing quantification systems of authority.
trjfosover 1 year ago
It&#x27;s not a problem unique to AI researchers, it&#x27;s about <i>everything</i>, if not now then ten years from now.<p>This is hidden metrics when you&#x27;re getting a home loan, your insurance premiums, your success in dating sites, college admissions, whether somebody would hire you to do a dj gig at a nightclub, everything.<p>It&#x27;s all recursive bullshit games, and you won&#x27;t know which ones so you&#x27;re just gonna run on as many treadmills as you can, all at once, while fully knowing some of them aren&#x27;t even worth anything - just not which ones.
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turnsoutover 1 year ago
What is RL?
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ryandvover 1 year ago
<p><pre><code> We saw examples of simple quantification of people and activities, such as using counts of likes, stars, commits, and papers, and even more informed metrics like H-Index can lead to strange outcomes. AI will make the world even more quantifiable and, in many cases, falsely quantifiable. Ever since the first ape held two sticks in the left hand and three in the right and wondered which was more, ranking things by quantity is in our nature. The ape’s descendants have now discovered a ranking hammer, and everything will look like ordered lists. Ordered lists bring legibility, and what is not legible cannot be governed and subject to value extraction. The false quantification and rank ordering of things using AI will bring real-world weirdness in how people function, which has nothing to do with the functions they carry out. I call this the “Great AI Weirding”. </code></pre> This reminds me of what Baudrillard terms &quot;the precession of simulacra,&quot; in which successively more abstract representations of reality (from crude maps, to &quot;hyperrealistic&quot; GTA V-esque video game maps that are sometimes &quot;more real&quot; than reality itself) end up supplanting and taking place of the real. We no longer have people pursuing interests for their own sake (as per the &quot;mathematician vs. mathlete&quot; distinction made in the OP), but merely to construct a digital simulacrum of themselves, one which is able to inflate all the right metrics (there is a digression to Goodhart&#x27;s Law [1] here) and win the same mechanistic games that we use as a proxy to measure value or worth in the world.<p><pre><code> Ceci n&#x27;est pas une pipe. [...] All of these things have gone beyond what they point to. </code></pre> That&#x27;s it; we no longer have real pipes, but only abstract symbols and depictions of them. Having &quot;precessed&quot; past the era of when symbols were meant to point to, refer to, an underlying referent, they have become objects, referents in and of themselves - objects partaking of a purely abstract, symbolic reality. Instead of taking the pointer as a clue to investigating the nature of the referent, we accept the reality of the indirection itself; anything underneath our numerical abstraction is simply an &quot;implementation detail.&quot;<p><pre><code> In other words, they get huge information satisfaction from ads, far more than they do from the product itself. Where advertising is heading is quite simply into a world where the ad will become a substitute for the product, and all the satisfactions will be derived informationally from the ad, and the product will be merely a number in some file. - Marshall McLuhan, 1966. https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=bNxo7fK-MJs </code></pre> Consider this substitution: &quot;all the satisfactions will be derived informationally from the [social media profile], and the [person] will be merely a number in some file.&quot; And yet of course, if you are &quot;illegible,&quot; inscrutable, with little to no digital media presence nor statistics on your past &quot;RL Career Game&quot; history and performance, are you competent at all? Do you even _exist_? Does Harry, mathlete-turned-mathematician, even understand mathematics? Where is his Olympiad performance history? &quot;[...] he became useless at competitions?&quot; Oh.<p>I have recently been watching John Vervaeke, assistant prof at UofT in the fields of cognitive science and Buddhist psychology, and his lecture series &quot;Awakening from the Meaning Crisis,&quot; where he describes the phenomenon of cognitive fluency:<p><pre><code> When you increase the ease at which people can process information, regardless of what that information is, they come to believe it as more real, they have more confidence in it, etc. - John Vervaeke, &quot;Continuous Cosmos and Modern World Grammar,&quot; Awakening from the Meaning Crisis, 2019. https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=C1AaqD8t3pk </code></pre> We have increased the ease at which people can process information, _about other people;_ and regardless of any correlation between the &quot;quantified self&quot; or the person&#x27;s metrics, and the person-themselves, we come to believe that simulacrum of the person more real, develop more confidence in the constructed persona they project and their capabilities, etc. Conversely, a dearth of information regarding an individual makes them &quot;illegible,&quot; somehow fictional, less real.<p>For all this, it takes a great leap of faith to object to playing these kinds of meaningless abstract games, at great personal risk and cost to one&#x27;s self; yet I am not sure how to meaningfully participate in these systems without upholding and lending implicit assent to the fictions that they rely on. I am reminded of some meditations on Moloch regarding the matter.<p>One hope I have from Vervaeke&#x27;s series is in his exploration of the notion of shamanism, and their role in society as developing new psychotechnologies and disrupting civilization&#x27;s facilities for pattern recognition - altering their sense of what is important, altering their sense of selves, and altering the very way we think in the world. I look forward to a revival of the shamanistic tradition, applied to &quot;cyberspace,&quot; (heh) to help us navigate the ways in which digital technology has altered our senses of meaning, what is actually important, and indeed of self and identity.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Goodhart%27s_law" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Goodhart%27s_law</a>
lmmover 1 year ago
Calling this &quot;weirding&quot; is wrong and misleading (particularly going to the trouble to insert the definition). The post is describing the opposite, a great normalisation. AI research (and everything else) becoming legible, quantifiable, gamified, and Goodhart&#x27;s law-ed.
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