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Bosses are using RTO mandates as a way to blame employees as a scapegoat

144 pointsby rustooover 1 year ago

28 comments

dehrmannover 1 year ago
I don&#x27;t expect this view to do well here, but my theory on WFH is it&#x27;s very effective for focus time, so for the first year, people could effectively work through solo work backlogs. Where WFH falls short is building alignment on larger initiatives, and that&#x27;s what we&#x27;re seeing. There&#x27;s a popular thing you read here from ICs (I&#x27;m also an IC) about being more productive at home, but what they never bring up (and probably don&#x27;t know) is if they&#x27;re working on the <i>right</i> things.
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toomuchtodoover 1 year ago
Financial performance during the pandemic was very favorable for some orgs, and leadership will struggle to deliver on shareholder go forward expectations (which are arguably unrealistic in the new post pandemic macro, due to structural demographics, cost of money, etc), leading to performance art (&quot;someone do something&quot;).<p>Somewhat similar to retail stores blaming theft for store closures when it&#x27;s their fundamentals [1]. Like a magician, misdirection.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=38602429">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=38602429</a> (Retailers Lobby: “We Lied About Organized Theft”)
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crop_rotationover 1 year ago
RTO is disliked by everyone. I work in big tech and everyone including the VP of my org dislikes it. It has become a formality and everyone just does whatever is needed according to policy. It is very hard to see anyone benefitting from it. The velocity has gone down and everyone knows and accepts it. I am being told even the EVPs dislike it but it is top down from CEO and everyone should just do the bare minimum required.
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kylecover 1 year ago
Succeeding in management is mostly about taking credit for successes and avoiding blame for failures. The better you are at doing that, the higher you&#x27;ll go in a company. With COVID, remote work, RTO, for the last few years it&#x27;s all been a regular train of plausible scapegoats that management has been able to deflect blame onto.
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sottolover 1 year ago
WFH and WFO companies are pretty different, from the leadership down. Many existing companies (especially large) can&#x27;t just adapt so they force RTO to accommodate their existing &quot;style&quot; instead of adapting.<p>I think we&#x27;ll end up with two types of companies, WFH and WFO, and right now it looks like the WFH companies will have an easier time recruiting and hiring. So imo this would work especially well for small, fast-growing companies. We&#x27;ll see whether they can keep up WFH as they grow but maybe there&#x27;s a limit where they&#x27;ll need to transition to working from the office.<p>If that&#x27;s true, it might be a good time to start companies again and take on some of the incumbents. WFH is a pretty strong selling point to those disgruntled by RTO policies.
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jmyeetover 1 year ago
RTO is like voluntary redundancies as a solution to layoffs. It seems like its a good idea but it&#x27;s not.<p>You rarely hear about voluntary redundancies these days for good reason. If, say, you wanted to downsize by 10% you&#x27;d seek volunteers within each division. They&#x27;d get a severance package. The net result? All the best people left because they could take the money and get another job.<p>RTO mandates are quiet layoffs. They&#x27;re layoffs without having to pay severance. It&#x27;s great (for the employer). At least in theory. Layoffs are a tool for increasing uncompensated workload (as the 5 remaining people still have to do the work of 8) and suppressing wages. Some people can&#x27;t RTO (eg they moved during the pandemic). Some just don&#x27;t want to. Particularly in the Bay Area, the commute is a giant waste of hours a day. So, again, the best people just leave. The ones who stay usually can&#x27;t leave because they&#x27;re being held captive by work visas and green card applications.<p>Blaming employees is nothing new here. In any large company you will see reorgs happen every 6 months, maybe more often. Some VP you&#x27;ve never heard of (but is in your direct management chain) now reports to a different VP who you&#x27;ve also never heard of. Some orgs have their names changed and there&#x27;s a new set of priorities.<p>The point of these reorgs is for leadership to escape responsibility for consequences. There&#x27;s a perpetual handover or ramping up period. Nothing lasts long enough to fail. Nothing lasts long enough to succeed either but there&#x27;s little value in success and a huge cost to failure so the people involved optimize to avoid failure. More specifically, the <i>appearance</i> of failure.<p>In all of this, you, the employee, are entirely expendable. Your life can be completely upended for no other reason than someone wanted to cancel a project to give the appearance of a reorg or your name was randomly picked for a layoff on a spreadsheet. Always act in your own best interests.
awinter-pyover 1 year ago
I feel this way whenever a senior manager disses the team&#x27;s &#x27;velocity&#x27;<p>velocity is a vector. ICs may bear some responsibility for its magnitude but direction is straight from the top baby
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binkover 1 year ago
Every time this topic comes up I feel compelled to offer my opinion that there is no universal rule when it comes to WFH or RTO. Whether employees are productive when working from home has more to do with how well the company has prepared to operate in that environment rather than any fundamental aspect of the two models. Companies complaining about unproductive staff working from home should focus on improving their processes and management around WFH rather than simply throwing up their hands and trying to force a return to the office.
chiefalchemistover 1 year ago
The root problem is: Management (and Leadership) don&#x27;t want to learn how to manage in WFH world. It&#x27;s a different approach and different mindset than in-office.<p>It&#x27;s certainly not as simple as &quot;look at us...we&#x27;re using Slack...we&#x27;re a remote-minded organization now.&quot; Tho I&#x27;ve seen such a naive - and lazy? - approach happen more than once.<p>That aside, I also sense there&#x27;s pressure from above. WFH is putting commercial real estate in a tail spin. Anyone who has investments in such real estate isn&#x27;t going to be in favor of WFH. These smaller forces add up.<p>RTO makes little sense. It the same as twenty years saying &quot;The internet is a fad...&quot; WFH is the future. There&#x27;s no turning back at this point, is there?
ParetoOptimalover 1 year ago
Forced RTO just makes 90% of your employees operate primarily by malicious compliance or at least &quot;minimum effort to get my paycheck&quot;.
esafakover 1 year ago
That means remote work is not actually a problem and we can drop the RTO mandates once the economy picks up.
indymikeover 1 year ago
Bosses blaming RTO mandates for poor performance is really a signal that leadership is disconnected from reality. It should be expected company wide that the RTO mandate will cause systematic issues, and after the mandate is completed, a new normal will emerge.
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mouzoguover 1 year ago
&gt; &quot;Business, found that an office return isn’t actually boosting a company’s bottom line&quot;<p>manufacturing consent.<p>stage 1: demonise workers &quot;quiet quitters&quot;<p>stage 2: implement mass layoffs<p>stage 3: re-hire those positions remotely in cheaper locations
npilkover 1 year ago
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;sFTAq" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;sFTAq</a>
happyjackover 1 year ago
This probably won&#x27;t resonate to the HN crowd, but I was in NC last week visiting a pump company that I distribute two of their lines.<p>The office was a ghost town. Completely empty, eerie, creepy. I think the applications engineers, accountants, office folks, etc. work from home 3-4 days a week. Meanwhile, there were 80 some employees in the factory on the lower level milling and lapping away, and fabricating pump skids.<p>I don&#x27;t see this ending well. I know a lot of young folks and admins are singing the work from home praise, but it does create a lot of animosity when machinists are grinding away on 8 hour shifts and HAVE to be there. On the other hand, it&#x27;s really fresh for someone like me to state any opinion since I&#x27;m a sales engineer and work alone out of an aircraft hangar and only see people when I go see clients at their own facilities or travel to see my vendors.<p>I don&#x27;t think humans are meant to be in isolation, though. But, the modern American life is full of shitty commutes, long hours in traffic, and mental drain. With the rising cost of homes, fuel, life in general, who the hell wants to sit in an hour traffic each way to work? And at the end of the day, who the fuck cares? Any extra profit you generate is going to some boomer shareholder. Might as well sit at home and create what little sanity you can.<p>I think consultants, programmers, sales, and some technical folks and the like are safe. They could do their jobs from home in 1990, and usually frequently travel. Programmers have had svn and git for a long time. Consulting &#x2F; professional engineers tend to sit on software packages and conference calls much of the day, etc. etc.
kyle_groveover 1 year ago
My main thoughts on RTO:<p><pre><code> 1. No one work arrangement is optimal for all firms. 2. Most policies around RTO (or remote work) are not meaningfully exploring optima (with respect to organizational health and work product quality). 3. Therefore, the amount of preserveration and energy spent on RTO steals focus from main drivers for firm success. Which is probably the point, as the article points out.</code></pre>
tschellenbachover 1 year ago
I think it&#x27;s funny how HNews is filled with this type of content. While there are also many posts about people not working at all remotely or working multiple jobs. I think we all have friends who work multiple roles or do nothing remotely.<p>So it&#x27;s not exactly surprising that companies are stopping with remote work, or at least are becoming careful with remote work.
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debo_over 1 year ago
Interesting to see a paper that hasn&#x27;t finished peer review yet getting coverage in Fortune.
awillover 1 year ago
Just think of Seattle while Amazon was WFH. The city was dead. Restaurants, food trucks, barbers etc.. All dead.<p>I&#x27;m pretty sure the big firms get tax breaks for forcing RTO, as it helps local businesses.
steveBK123over 1 year ago
I saw a good comment posted elsewhere that essentially WFH&#x2F;Remote&#x2F;Hybrid accentuates employees existing behavior. So your top X% performers are now freed up to perform even better as they save commute time, and some in-office distraction. But your bottom Y% performers who are shirking in-office can now go hard on shirking.<p>As a manager it is your job to see that and behave accordingly. Punishing your entire org because you can&#x27;t be bothered to PIP, and if necessary fire the bad Y% means you are a bad manager.
xystover 1 year ago
Closest article I could find which lists companies with reported&#x2F;published RTO mandates:<p>- <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.businessinsider.com&#x2F;companies-making-workers-employees-return-to-office-rto-wfh-hybrid-2023-1" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.businessinsider.com&#x2F;companies-making-workers-emp...</a><p>If anybody has a more comprehensive list, please share. I am personally blacklisting any of these companies.
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givemeethekeysover 1 year ago
Is there a list of such bosses, so we can decide for ourselves on whether we&#x27;d like to work for them in the future?
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batch12over 1 year ago
I wonder what the impact of quiet quitting, loud quitting, and other highlighted extremes that dont reflect the vast majority of enployers had on some of these decisions.
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jgalt212over 1 year ago
CYA gonna CYA, only the names have changed.
throwingawayusrover 1 year ago
One aspect I haven’t seen talked about much is how there’s a strong push for RTO but no cutbacks on external contractors. Current large org is forcing RTO but most of my team is in latam or Europe so there’s very little value.<p>If this was truly about in-office efficiency then why keep so many external contractors?<p>My take is that this is yet another mechanism for soft layoffs and control and the cost savings of external contractors are still worthwhile. So we’re left with hybrid teams and being in office still means remote meetings with the majority of ICs. The most charitable take I can give is that leadership truly believes that their immediate reports&#x2F;teams will do better. My less charitable take is that this is for reasons not shared because they wouldn’t be well received.
johndhiover 1 year ago
What does &quot;productiveness&quot; mean exactly? As a manager I find all of this quite hard to quantify.
lulznewsover 1 year ago
Yes, RTO is widely known to be a scam.
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gdevenyiover 1 year ago
How far will I have to scroll down to learn what RTO is?
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