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The quiet death of Ello's big dreams

503 pointsby waxpancakeover 1 year ago

44 comments

sirspaceyover 1 year ago
Excellent, balanced post.<p>We’re at the end of a grand experiment of “you can take VC money and deliver a tech with new values, one that people want.”<p>The only people still claiming you can just haven’t run out of their last funding round… yet.<p>We have 20 years of evidence on what tech businesses can be built on the Internet that make money. It’s narrow and mostly can’t solve the problems that remain.<p>The escape hatch is always subscription revenue.<p>It’s true you can build a unique business on unique values for a unique community.<p>But it’s a long slog in the MicroSaaS world where anyone can &amp; many will straight up copy you - forever.<p>X.com is probably the only &amp; last experiment on whether switching to subscription rev is achievable at scale. Looks pretty clear so far that it’s not.<p>This might seem a negative outlook, but it could be quite positive if founders know &amp; accept it.<p>The secret is out now that, mostly, founders make the same amount of money in the same amount of time whether they go the VC or bootstrapped route (when it’s a winning business).<p>There will always be opportunities for finance-backed cartel-busting mega runs.<p>But if you are a founder that cares about anything - anything - the route that gets you there is founder control, patience, and a customer base that pays.
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wideopenjakeover 1 year ago
Early on in Ello&#x27;s life, possibly year 1, I interviewed for a job with them - back when their office was basically one floor of a residence, and all the engineers pretty much worked at a single dinner table packed with monitors. I probably scored the interview because of my previous experience as CTO of a startup social network for people who wanted social change (which we sold to Gaiam, and that&#x27;s how it eventually died a few years later, but at least I ended up in the Denver&#x2F;Boulder area).<p>Anyway, the code test part of the interview involved pairing with another engineer on a small portion of the ello User model (their application was built with Ruby on Rails at the time), and I remember being rather underwhelmed by what they asked me to do, at least in terms of whether it provided a decent test of my abilities. I ended up sending a follow-up email expressing that, along with numerous polished samples of other project work.<p>They ended up passing on me, but I stayed a member of ello for a while longer because I thought the idea might have promise. Maybe I left too early, but I eventually ditched it because... there was no &quot;there&quot;, there.<p>I liked their general idea, but... they could have done so much more with it, even with a small team. As it was, I left before ello ever got out of its &quot;tumblr clone with way too much empty space&quot; phase - if it ever did.<p>RIP
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dopeboyover 1 year ago
I&#x27;m a recovering founder after winding down my startup a couple months ago. I&#x27;ve been thinking about getting back on the saddle and in service of that, meeting with folks who could be potential co-founders.<p>One of the first ~5 questions I ask is whether they want to bootstrap or go down the VC route. Because they are very different paths, with different levels of pressure and mostly importantly, expectation.<p>You _have_ to know that from the outset, else it&#x27;s just trouble.
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mawiseover 1 year ago
I started building an open source private blogging system[1] when my first kid was born, and it eventually evolved into the skeleton of a social network--but fully decentralized using RSS and self- (or paid-) hosting. I concluded the only way for a network to actually avoid selling out was for there to be nothing to sell. If I give away the software, and don&#x27;t control the network then there is no need for users to trust me. It continues to be an interesting journey as a side-project (not raising money means I&#x27;m still working a day-job).<p>[1]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;havenweb.org" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;havenweb.org</a>
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paxysover 1 year ago
No amount of manifestos, bills of rights, public benefit designations, PR campaigns, taking VC funding, <i>not</i> taking VC funding, not selling out or whatever the hell else we want to talk about can make up for one simple fact – a company needs to bring in more money than it costs to run. Ello tried for 8+ years but could not manage to do that.<p>This post is focusing solely on the VC funding aspect and proclaiming it as the cause for failure but ignoring the fact that Ello was dead in the water regardless of it. The company had no users and no business model. Heck a reasonable amount of ethical advertising may actually have done some good for the community and helped the product survive.
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Lercover 1 year ago
Taking investor money means users will required to pay, one way or another.<p>Without an explicitly capped profit, I can&#x27;t see how this doesn&#x27;t eventually lead to exploitation of the users.<p>I would like to see a donation&#x2F;optional subscription model with tiered features as is seen in Patreon&#x2F;Kickstarter etc. with the distinction that the tiers are community wide instead of being bound to the individuals donating.<p>Display an income bar. If it drops to zero the servers turn off. If it drops below 1 nobody can post. If it is above 1 you have Direct messaging, above 2 you have more features, etc. Keep the communication clear as to what is being provided and how it is being paid for.<p>Most people won&#x27;t pay, but if nobody pays there is no service. Its survival would depend upon providing a service that satisfies enough people to sustain the support. This certainly wouldn&#x27;t be as lucrative as a exploit the users model, but the idea is not to make a fortune, but to simply run a sustainable enterprise.
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Kyeover 1 year ago
Makes me think about how Bluesky is also a Public Benefit Corporation and took $8m in funding.
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larodiover 1 year ago
My dream is of one day being in position to borrow some 5, 10 mil, if not more from some bank, VC, whatever. And then manage to somehow.... mismanage it, burn the money. And then get away from all the troubles by filing bankruptcy!<p>Yes, this has ever been my wet dream growing in a country that didn&#x27;t have the notion of personal default and until only recent years. Where mobs were chasing oneself if he had any debts to like... anyone. I really envy you guys burning VC capital on &quot;dreams&quot;, while others have to solve the complex &quot;differential equation&quot; of markets and competition and planning, and you know managing things properly to be sustainable without external injections.<p>Our story is very sad, your story is a dream indeed.
ChrisMarshallNYover 1 year ago
I&#x27;m a participant in a community that explicitly refuses money from outside its membership. If that means we can&#x27;t grow fast, or have fancy digs, so be it.<p>The reason for that, is to avoid having influence from outside. Even &quot;angel&quot; investment can be problematic, as the &quot;angel&quot; has the ear of the leadership.<p>I have found that even well-meaning outsiders can have highly destructive influence, because they don&#x27;t understand the culture and they aren&#x27;t the ones on the hook, if things go pear-shaped, as opposed to the ones that have a real, personal, stake (like all those Ello users, who lost so much).
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cole-kover 1 year ago
Even the supposedly indie anti-social social media outright violated their own manifesto. Is it any surprise that we&#x27;re skeptical of the big promises of a bright future that corporations make all the time?<p>I&#x27;m curious to know if anyone has evidence of a post similar to this but for a company with a (so far) happy ending.
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Andrexover 1 year ago
&gt; I felt sad for the guy. It’s awful going through life never believing in anything.<p>Being an idealist is fine, but being a dick is not. This article took on some personal schadenfreude after I read this line.
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resoover 1 year ago
I&#x27;m not sure why this post focuses so much on the angel investment. There are probably 10 reasons why Ello failed, starting with the fact that bootstrapping social network userbases is hard, and ending with users won&#x27;t pay for social networks. None of these are directly related to the fact they built the site with investor money and not volunteer hours.
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d0gsg0w00fover 1 year ago
Has anyone ever considered that social networking is just a bad business model? It&#x27;s something that everyone wants to use, expensive to run but nobody wants to pay for.
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muppetmanover 1 year ago
I&#x27;m amazed by the number of people who trust websites like this with their memories&#x2F;diaries etc. I mean, I understand why, there&#x27;s an expectation when you start with these sites they&#x27;ll be around forever - most people don&#x27;t have the time, the knowledge or the desire to &quot;do it themselves&quot; - When livejournal was all the rage I decided to do it myself with Postnuke, then (and still!) Drupal. Going on 24 years now. That said, LiveJournal is still going, but owned by a Russian company I think, and it could turn off tomorrow.<p>I guess the flipside is, if I die tomorrow and then there&#x27;s a PHP error on my website, no one&#x27;s ever going to know how to fix it. So my memories and diary entries die as well. My &quot;fix&quot; for that is to export the ~2400 diary entires every few months into one massive PDF file.<p>Edit: I understand why this is being downvoted, I just want to clarify that I didn&#x27;t mean the opening sentence to read as if people who trust 3rd party websites to their hosting were silly&#x2F;dumb, though I realise now that&#x27;s how it scans. What I should have said was &quot;It&#x27;s very unfortunate and a sad state of the current Internet that people trust websites like this...&quot;
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ErikAugustover 1 year ago
&quot;But a little digging shows a much more predictable source: they took a $435,000 round of seed funding in January from FreshTracks Capital, a Vermont-based VC firm that announced the deal in March.&quot;<p>People forget (or mostly never knew) that Ello was a Vermont thing.<p>I once spitballed with a certain VC at FreshTracks Capital about an idea I had, which lead to him running off with it and burning millions of dollars making it into BRIDJ, which shut down a few years ago.
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jrexiliusover 1 year ago
I think people imply too much evil-intent with funding rather than understanding the mechanics of it. If you take money from an investor you have an obligation to them to make a return on that money in a finite time frame. The VC has LPs who want their money back in a finite window, so paying tiny dividends over 10 years to see a return on capital and some profit just doesn&#x27;t work. Building a low-margin, profitable business does not return that investment.<p>So if you understand the mechanics behind it and have a reasonable path to return, say at least 5x the capital in 5 years (they want more obviously) then VC may not get in the way of your mission. But you have to ask yourself the hard question and be honest in answering it: &quot;Can I return this investment five fold in five years without harming my customers&#x2F;users&#x2F;business&#x2F;etc.?&quot;..<p>Ethical obligations go in multiple directions.<p>[edit to add] Obviously there is also a fair amount of dihonesty and ill-intentioned greed out there as well, but that isn&#x27;t the driver.
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otteromkramover 1 year ago
I don&#x27;t see why Ello didn&#x27;t just turn into a Pinterest + Etsy + DeviantArt hybrid.<p>Let artists show off work, let them seem their art&#x2F;products, take a percentage of the sale as profit.<p>Maybe that&#x27;s a bad business model for a social-media-first platform.
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zzzeekover 1 year ago
this post is a bit of a &quot;nyah nyah I told you so&quot;, but since whoever was running Ello did not give any heads up to users a way to get at their content, they just allowed the thing to buzz into the ground and they shut off all communication, they deserve it.
Night_Thastusover 1 year ago
I did not use, or even hear of Ello, but I am sad to see this story play out.<p>What is more sad is that this exact story has played out hundreds, thousands of times with slight variation.<p>I don&#x27;t understand how the people involved cannot see those patterns. Cannot see the history. Cannot see beyond the current moment.<p>I&#x27;m really not sure if it&#x27;s greed or self-deception or ambition or something else entirely.<p>For a similar, but different story:<p>Some time back, a game development studio called Harebrained Schemes was created from passionate individuals in the Shadowrun and Battletech community - founders who had been involved since the early tabletop days. They rebooted Shadowrun with 3 new games, and in 2018 used Kickstarter to create <i>Battletech</i>, which is loved by the community and has an active modding scene.<p>Then, immediately following the success of BT, they sold out to Paradox. Paradox is not a terrible publisher in the grand scheme of things. But that sale did change HS&#x27;s priorities. They were prevented from making another Battletech game, because frankly it&#x27;s a more niche product with older fans. It does not have &#x27;mass market appeal&#x27;. They instead made Lamplighter&#x27;s league, something that clearly they did not have their hearts in.<p>In the end, it flopped, HS had massive layoffs and now was let go by Paradox. We will likely never get another game from them. There will never be a Battletech 2.<p>It&#x27;s so frustrating. They had passionate individuals and a loving fan base and GREAT games, and they threw it away.
r3trohack3rover 1 year ago
I remember when tech twitter (or at least Node.js twitter) tried to migrate to Ello for like a week.<p>A pretty good portion of my social network moved, myself included. But it fizzled out really quickly and we all ended up back on Twitter.<p>Every once in a while I&#x27;d still get a notification from Ello that someone had followed me. It was always a porn bot, but the email notification was still nostalgic. A part of me is sad the site died.
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nojvekover 1 year ago
Money is the energy for a business. With it you employ people to build, market and sell the product, rent real estate etc.<p>Most startups die out of either running out of money or running out of will to continue (due to founder fallout).<p>Money may be made up numbers, but what you can exchange it for is very real.<p>People buy things they value.<p>So if Ello dies, did they build something valuable? Valuable enough that it could sustain itself long term.
Rodeoclashover 1 year ago
I wonder if it&#x27;s possible to take the Wikipedia model (open source, non profit entity) and use that to build a social network.
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darnfishover 1 year ago
Anyone wanna place a bet on how likely that an order from here would be delivered?<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ello.threadless.com&#x2F;designs&#x2F;white-ello-shirt&#x2F;mens&#x2F;t-shirt&#x2F;regular?color=white&amp;size=medium" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ello.threadless.com&#x2F;designs&#x2F;white-ello-shirt&#x2F;mens&#x2F;t-...</a>
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micromacrofootover 1 year ago
Apologies if this is too tangential, but I wonder if we would see fewer of these &quot;we failed, sell the bones out to any charlatan you can find&quot; sales if the US had a better support system for people that ensures they&#x27;re not out of healthcare or housing if they take some time off from working.<p>If I invested a bunch of time, effort, and vision into something and had nothing to show for it while nearing failure... I&#x27;d be very tempted to sell just so I don&#x27;t have to go straight from failure to job hunt. This situation seems outrageously stressful to me... I literally don&#x27;t even know what I&#x27;d do if I broke my arm or came down with some serious illness while in the inbetween state.
rifficover 1 year ago
defunct social networking services, a list from wikipedia:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;List_of_defunct_social_networking_services" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;List_of_defunct_social_network...</a>
jl6over 1 year ago
Looks like Archive Team didn’t manage to get anything before it disappeared :(
kristopolousover 1 year ago
Social networks and marketplaces are the hardest things to get going
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Workaccount2over 1 year ago
Just a reminder:<p>If you are not paying for the product, you are the product.<p>The internet culture birthed from the early days of the internet &quot;Everything is free&quot;, seems to have captured a whole generation who simply have no concept of cost and value.<p>Vid.me is another start-up that comes to mind: Youtube sucks, has too many ads, and sells your data. We won&#x27;t have ads, won&#x27;t sell your data, and will host all your content.<p>It made it four years before investor cash dried up and they said goodbye.
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DeathArrowover 1 year ago
So they had 7 people to pay, and also pay for hosting, rent, equipment and utilities. That means at least 1 million per year.<p>How were they going to do it without outside funding if the creators subscribing weren&#x27;t paying at least that amount? Ask for donations on Patreon?
DeathArrowover 1 year ago
The article somehow states that money from private equity and venture capital is poison that will kill new companies and harm the public.<p>I wonder how you can grow a company without outside investors? Either you are a very rich founder or you can try to grow it organically but very slowly. If you attempt to do the later you&#x27;ll find yourself in a position where is very hard to succeed, moreso if your company doesn&#x27;t do anything new and the competition has lots of cash to succeed.<p>If you are in a internet business, you either charge users for the service or sell ads. Until now there&#x27;s no better proven way to monetize.<p>If you intend to charge users for the service without selling ads, then you can do it regardless of how the money came to finance the business.<p>In retrospect, it seems like a bad business prospective from the start, with low potential. Had the potential been better, VC wouldn&#x27;t force them to sell ads and wouldn&#x27;t have tried to exit the business so fast.
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DeathArrowover 1 year ago
&gt;Would things have been different if they hadn’t taken funding? It’s impossible to say. In all likelihood, it never would have been built in the first place.<p>&gt;But if it had, I doubt it would have ended like this.<p>If it had I doubt it would have lasted as much.
micromacrofootover 1 year ago
It&#x27;s a shame that it&#x27;s completely lost, they had some interesting layout conventions and it was kind of fun to browse images even in the later days.<p>The network never really caught on, but there was some good work being done there.
dredmorbiusover 1 year ago
I&#x27;d joined Ello early[1] on and watched its journey with interest, frustration, and ultimately sadness. That included an on-site visit in October 2015, which was genuinely enjoyable. I&#x27;d largely written off the site around 2018 when it was sold and information on either the status of the social benefit corporation (SBC) or new ownership was exceedingly scarce. Andy Baio&#x27;s account corresponds strongly with my own.<p>The community was small (I&#x27;d estimated total accounts at perhaps 10--15 million, and actives at roughly 1% of that, generally confirmed during my visit), but vibrant in its own way, and as with numerous other social networks, I miss numerous connections I&#x27;d made there, though a small handful have resumed at the Fediverse. There really were some notable gems among the group I connected with, including Paul Mason (journalist, briefly), poet Trenton Lee Tiemeyer, authors Ksenia Anske and Bruce Sterling, SVG guru David Dailey, and others.<p>Most disquieting was how Ello died with neither notice to its members <i>or</i> commentary elsewhere. TFA here is among the very few accounts I&#x27;ve seen of its demise. (I&#x27;ve written a few times about it at the Fediverse myself.)<p>The other concern, going far beyond Ello, is how little protection or guarantee either its manifesto or SBC status ended up providing. Going forward, I&#x27;m going to give similar attestations vanishingly slight weight.<p>Having participated in online communities since the late 1980s (Usenet, mailing lists, Slashdot, Google+, Diaspora*, Reddit, Ello, the quite short-lived Imzy, amongst others), I&#x27;m reminded of the song &quot;dumb ways to die&quot;: there are many ways for a social network to die, most of them depressingly uncreative.<p>The flip side is that it&#x27;s also difficult for a social network to <i>survive</i>, let alone thrive, and survival. Commercial pressures from every thing I&#x27;ve seen worsen this, though even noncommercial &#x2F; non-ad-supported sites may see failure modes.<p>Of the best communities I&#x27;ve encountered:<p>- Early Usenet, when access was strongly predicated on academic affiliation.<p>- 1990s-era mailing lists, most especially those focused around Unix &#x2F; Linux and Free Software topics. (Broader-appeal mailing lists ... tended to function poorly.)<p>- Google+, in patches. The fact that the social network wasn&#x27;t ad-dependent, and had strong representation from the tech community were strengths, and some of the best engaging online conversations I&#x27;ve had were from there. Diaspora*, though vastly smaller, saw a substantial portion of my G+ community engage there and had similar dynamics which also made for some good discussions, though not quite as often.<p>- The Fediverse. Not quite as rewarding as G+, but I strongly suspect it will prove far more enduring.<p>- Hacker News. As with G+, not directly intended as a revenue-generating platform. Not as good as it could be, but far better many other options, and <i>astonishingly</i> consistent over a very long lifetime (approaching 20 years), which would beat out Usenet by quite a margin.[2] I&#x27;d chalk up HN&#x27;s durability to a few factors: unsexy tech and appearance, stellar moderation, solid design principles, and a viable founding cohort and active community. There are of course criticisms of the site and I&#x27;ve made a few myself, but relative to much the rest of the Net, still running strong.<p>________________________________<p>Notes:<p>1. The Internet Archive has some captures: &lt;<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.archive.org&#x2F;web&#x2F;*&#x2F;https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ello.co&#x2F;dredmorbius" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.archive.org&#x2F;web&#x2F;*&#x2F;https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ello.co&#x2F;dredmorbius</a>&gt;<p>2. Usenet&#x27;s birth date was ~1979. By 1999 it was well past its sell-by date, though not <i>completely</i> dead.
DeathArrowover 1 year ago
What amazes me, is why would anyone sane pay to buy such a business?<p>Why did Talenthouse buy Elo, and more important why did some investors buy Talenthouse?<p>Have no one saw any sign of a very bad investment?
jchwover 1 year ago
I know that nobody is purporting to have the answer, and I am definitely not trying to suggest that there&#x27;s anything wrong with the conclusions drawn here--quite the contrary, actually. But, if VC funding is clearly a bad way to go about things, then what is the best way to structure and fund an organization built around a network or service that is primarily in the game of serving user-generated content and providing social networking and chatting services?<p>VC funding has a lot of problems. Funding via advertising is similarly fraught with peril, maybe worse, especially the most lucrative stuff. You can fund things by selling premium content or features, but this too is rather tenuous: if you are say, SoundCloud, one of your primary customers is inevitably going to be artists, who themselves are by and large not rich.<p>Not to mention, no matter who you focus your monetization on, $1 is infinitely more than $0, and monetizing useful features or access to content will inevitably lower the overall value of your platform. This is presumably part of why advertising is so enticing: end users don&#x27;t have to &quot;pay&quot; anything. Sure, advertising isn&#x27;t <i>literally</i> free, but users do not have to set up a payment method and take money from their account and send it to yours, which is a massive difference, and massively increases accessibility.<p>Then there&#x27;s stuff like crowdfunding. Platforms that let you do one-off funding campaigns like Kickstarter or Gofundme, or platforms that let you do monthly subscriptions in exchange for &quot;rewards&quot; like Patreon or FANBOX. There even is a platform that is partly funded by monthly subscription payments (Misskey.io) and although I&#x27;m sure it is a relatively small part of the funding (at least I would certainly assume so) it still seems to have been successful nonetheless.<p>And that&#x27;s just funding. What about structure? Becoming a non-profit or public benefit corporation is seemingly not any kind of sure-fire way to avoid trouble, as can be seen here. While I don&#x27;t know exactly how the legalese works around a lot of these topics, it feels like these measures simply don&#x27;t do enough to prevent corruption or at the very least, undesired future changes in direction. You want a company to have autonomy to carry out its vision and try to survive in the process, but you don&#x27;t want it to compromise its core values in the process. Is there anything you can do legally and&#x2F;or socially to provide better assurances?<p>This is very frustrating because I think a lot of us see the sad state of the Internet and want to do something, but it&#x27;s hard to work towards it because you can also see a graveyard of good intentions gone horribly awry. There&#x27;s all kinds of attempts to work around it, but as a wise man once said, &quot;Mo Money Mo Problems&quot;. It seems that the temptation to exploit things always manages to find a way around your safeguards to prevent things from being exploited. Just to beat a dead horse even more, remember the last time you were excited for a Google product announcement, like say, GMail? I&#x27;m not saying they were ever a charity or intending to be... but it&#x27;s hard to not see the painful way in which values that were once hard-fought slowly fade away. Somehow, eventually, everything becomes rent-seeking, a game to see how much money you can get back from an investment. One would hope there is a way out that doesn&#x27;t involve a very painful upheaval of society, but over time it&#x27;s getting harder and harder to believe it.
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wly_cdgrover 1 year ago
Oh wow, I&#x27;d totally forgotten about Ello. They were never going mainstream with that yuppie aesthetic
strangattractorover 1 year ago
Replace &quot;Ello&quot; with &quot;OpenAI&quot; except OpenAI is not being silent about the changes.
bdcravensover 1 year ago
That&#x27;s a name I haven&#x27;t thought of for several years.<p>I wonder if Fediverse, Blue Sky, etc will catch, or if it&#x27;ll end up in the same boat. Threads too (yes it&#x27;s backed by Meta, but G+ had Google behind it ...)
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hn_throwaway_99over 1 year ago
I thought this was a fantastic post. I think it really dovetailed with what I&#x27;ve been thinking a lot about recently regarding my disillusionment with tech (or, rather, with big tech companies).<p>I think everyone should understand (and, honestly, repeat daily) that in our modern capitalist system where never-ending growth is an <i>expected requirement</i> of any company that has ever taken outside funding, it is simply an impossibility for a company to have any kind of durable values that conflict with that growth-at-all-costs requirement. It&#x27;s as much of an impossibility as the sun rising in the west, and we should stop any pretense that it&#x27;s not. Enshittification is <i>inevitable</i>.<p>Nearly every tech company starts out similarly: an absolute laser focus on users and their needs, because that is how you first grow. At some point, though, all of that fruit is picked, and you then start going into features that are &quot;user neutral&quot; but that make money, until finally you chip away at features that look like they can be user neutral in the short term (&quot;We A&#x2F;B tested and nobody minded one more ad!&quot;), but the long term effect is that you&#x27;ve completely destroyed your founding ethos.<p>For example, it&#x27;s easy to pick on Google these days because it&#x27;s, well, so easy. Their total about face from a company that was nearly universally loved by engineers to one that, if not loathed, is at best seen as the &quot;next IBM&quot; is so obvious. E.g. Google got huge originally with a world-first search engine by not &quot;selling out&quot;, by not masquerading ads as organic search results. Now when I search for any remotely commercial term the entire first page is ads that are nearly indistinguishable from organic results.<p>It&#x27;s not just Google, though. Apple loves to crow about user privacy, but it&#x27;s hard to square this &quot;value&quot; with their insistence that anyone on iOS who uses iMessage to talk to anyone on Android gets 0 encryption (oh, and if even a single Android user is in a group chat, nobody gets encryption).<p>I don&#x27;t think that makes any company &quot;evil&quot;, but it does make it somewhat sociopathic in the sense that there can ever only be a single goal: growth at all costs. The sooner we all recognize it means we can treat all companies with an appropriate level of caution. One final note related to this, is that this is one reason I&#x27;m not really a fan of PBCs as mentioned in the article. PBCs are a smoke-screen. As the saying goes, &quot;Follow the money&quot;. When push-comes-to-shove you&#x27;ll also see PBCs compromise their &quot;values&quot; the second growth starts to be at risk.
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sakesunover 1 year ago
oodbye
unsupp0rtedover 1 year ago
&gt; After leaving Ello in 2016, Budnitz returned to his Kidrobot roots with the launch of Superplastic in 2017, a vinyl figure company that expanded into NFTs and the metaverse in 2022, raising a total of $68M in seven rounds of funding, led by Amazon. Superplastic appears to have abandoned its NFT projects last year as the market cratered, and Budnitz stepped down from his CEO role in September, replaced by the former president of blockchain gaming company Dapper Labs. They are now focused on “synthetic celebrities” and AI influencers.
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NetOpWibbyover 1 year ago
This post is a long-ass “told you so” and honestly, I’m here for it. I too had an Ello account and thoroughly enjoyed its minimalist nature.<p>VC money really seems like the beginning of the end.
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paulddraperover 1 year ago
&gt; I figured I’d publish a short list of things Ello will never do:<p>&gt; ...<p>&gt; 2. Tolerate hate. Ello has many tools, some visible and others not, that help keep this network positive.<p>Geez, it&#x27;s hard to take anything said as authentic with a statement like that. How can you talk about things without &quot;hate&quot;?<p>&quot;I hate shoveling snow.&quot; &quot;I hate terrorists.&quot; &quot;I hate this political candidate.&quot; &quot;I hate Taylor Swift music.&quot;
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thimkerbellover 1 year ago
HN is just doomy-doomy-doomy today. Sad.