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The Dawn of Cultural Schizophrenia (2023)

61 pointsby kkonceviciusover 1 year ago

9 comments

bowsamicover 1 year ago
I agree that it is as wide as the ocean and as deep as a puddle and it really does lead to a degeneration of meaning, however I think it keeps people solely in the depressive state rather than a schizophrenic one. It really isn&#x27;t finding meaning and connections in everything if everything is only investigated only to a surface level. It usually just functions more as a form of shallow social signalling: &quot;Yes I&#x27;ve heard of Hegel, yes I&#x27;ve watched Lynch, yes I know a few words in German&quot; etc.<p>From an individual point of view, often it&#x27;s a matter of being scared to take a leap of faith into one topic, or simply a matter of great distraction, particularly with vapid online spaces (HN included) and shallow entertainment, or even just a symptom of their own psychological issues. For me it has been a combination of all of them, but ultimately also just a thought: too quickly giving up and spiralling into a kind of self-hating shallow engagement when I am challenged by something.<p>It&#x27;s true that people are now stretched over too many cultural artefacts &quot;like butter spread on too much bread&quot;. But honestly I can&#x27;t be bothered to worry about the sociocultural impact of this, I will just focus on enjoying meaning and connection in my own life. I find that pretending &quot;the culture&quot; doesn&#x27;t exist is the only way to really enjoy it now. I just pursue exactly what I enjoy in the way I enjoy it. I&#x27;ve had enough of actively seeking cultural companionship, particularly online. It was ultimately distraction from living a rich life anyway.<p>For me, I think learning what I find meaning in, what I really enjoy, was just a part of growing up. It is an ongoing process, but it is growing.
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bondarchukover 1 year ago
&gt;<i>But, if everything means something, nothing means anything.</i><p>Stated without argument, and, as far as I can see, simply false. I know this pattern from &quot;if everything is bold, nothing is bold&quot; (typography), where I&#x27;d agree with it (if all text is bold no single piece of text can stand out from the rest, which was originally the function of bolding text), I just don&#x27;t see how it transposes to meaning. If &#x27;meaning&#x27; is a perceived relation from &#x27;A&#x27; to &#x27;B&#x27;, then adding another perceived relation from &#x27;C&#x27; to &#x27;D&#x27; does not change that in any way.<p>Perhaps the author&#x27;s point is that when only a few things meant something, it was easier to fall into the illusion that this meaning was more than just a relation between things which are meaningless in isolation, that there was some wellspring of meaning that goes above and beyond mere relationships, into a different metaphysical plane of existence, and one could even be in communion with it in ones daily life (&quot;actual fulfilment&quot;) by attending to a few common myths or stories or what-have-you. Alas, I would say this is just an illusion and while it might be legitimate to lament the loss of a comfortable state, you would just be fooling yourself by closing your eyes and going back to it at this point.<p>By the way, what is meant by &quot;meaning&quot; anyway? The phrase &quot;X means Y&quot; is clear enough, but then the things the author really seems to want to say hinge on a non-relational use of the word, e.g. &quot;X is meaningful&quot;, &quot;there is meaning&quot;, &quot;signifiers of meaning&quot;, &quot;meaning that is meaningful&quot;. I know there&#x27;s a colloquial use of &quot;meaningful&quot; but AFAICT &quot;X is meaningful&quot; then means little more than &quot;X makes me happy (and less afraid of death)&quot;. It&#x27;s certainly not a unique fault of this article but it would be nice if someone were to define their key terms, for once.
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kouru225over 1 year ago
This Becker guy seems to have made a very specific argument that schizophrenia is connected to mania and it flew over the authors head. At least, that’s my guess here. What the author is talking about is mania, but he’s using the word schizophrenia.<p>“On the other hand we have schizophrenia, a relationality so unkept than anything and everything is packed full of meaning, connections are drawn between everything, and existence is pure pattern and relation.”<p>^ that’s mania. Mania exists on the opposite side of the spectrum of depression, which is why we usually call it “manic-depression” when someone has mood swings. I’m fine with creating new definitions and using whatever words you want to use, but by using the word schizophrenia, we lose a connection to mood swings that I think is more representative of our cultural reality right now. We’re not all manic. Some of us are depressed, and some of us shift between the two.
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pphyschover 1 year ago
Greer&#x27;s thesis is interesting, but I don&#x27;t see what this article adds to it.<p>Western Culture is firmly in the &quot;one story&quot; paradigm, and reaching the terminal state.<p>&quot;Too many stories = schizo&quot; seems like a defense&#x2F;cope from someone in the popular &quot;one story&quot; camp. I say this because the author doesn&#x27;t really substantiate it with examples, or explain how&#x2F;when the culture transitioned from &quot;many&quot; to &quot;too many&quot;.<p>IME people described as &quot;schizo&quot; often have a &quot;one story&quot; worldview of the world, i.e. believing strongly that their views are Truth, but struggle to form a cohesive &quot;one story&quot; and go crazy. In contrast, a &quot;many stories&quot; person is detached from owning the Truth and can better cope with contradictions and differing worldviews.
dosplatosover 1 year ago
&gt; The question, then, is to what extent limitation is healthy?<p>Our minds filter reality for survival. But, we over-use our minds. Too much stuff in the cache, and not enough stuff going to dev&#x2F;null&#x2F;. Living in the technological society we do today requires more and more attention on various things.<p>If you just turn off your mind for a while and stop overclocking, this isn&#x27;t such a huge issue. Easier said than done. I try to meditate, and I feel it helps, but it&#x27;s difficult.
swayvilover 1 year ago
But reality isn&#x27;t a story. It&#x27;s a nameless, formless, infinitely deep thing.<p>And you don&#x27;t need a story to navigate it either. A story (map, theory, etc) is just one (immensely popular) way.<p>Maybe our deep concern with stories is the issue. Like a man who puts his head in a sack and then complains about the dark
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m0lluskover 1 year ago
There are a million stories in the naked city, but no one can tell which one is theirs.
PaulHouleover 1 year ago
I went to the library at my Uni a while back looking for books on paranoia, a phenomenon associated with schizophrenia, and was disgusted that the majority of books were like this article, confusing vague ideas about culture with important concepts from mental health. It’s shameful because there is enough ignorance and confusion in this area and we don’t need people who should know better (as this author expresses) to create more.<p>I’d also reject the idea that the proliferation of stories really overloads people because <i>stories follow their own physics</i> (that I’d quarter-jokingly call pataphysics) and so constrained they recycle a limited repertoire of patterns. principles and archetypes and even if the details of the stories become a blur, one internalizes the structure.
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FrustratedMonkyover 1 year ago
from article<p>&quot;On the other hand, we can become so lost in language games themselves that the grounded connection of language to the cultural meaning system is lost, and we end up desperately spewing out word-salads in a frantic attempt to find that lost connection. The former problem of living Becker linked to states of depression, while the latter he linked to schizophrenia.&quot;<p>To some extent, I liked the article, even agree mostly, but itself also tends towards the &#x27;word salad&#x27;.<p>Does this mean anything &quot;&quot;:On the one hand, then, we have ‘depression’ as an understanding of a relationality that is so locked into a singular frame of reference that any sense of sovereignty is usurped by the self-imposed dogma of the system itself, leading to both the former ignorance Greer writes of and a personal form of melancholic depression. On the other hand we have schizophrenia, a relationality so unkept than anything and everything is packed full of meaning, connections are drawn between everything, and existence is pure pattern and relation. But, if everything means something, nothing means anything. Meanings needs limits, yet can’t be dogmatically limited. Meaning, then, needs equilibrium.&quot;&quot;