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Disney unveils the HoloTile floor

823 pointsby wallflowerover 1 year ago

60 comments

smusamashahover 1 year ago
<p><pre><code> A tile with ultrasonic array of transducers are provided as in the assembly to provide instantaneous friction control for any objects contacting or supported on the contact&#x2F;upper surface. [1] </code></pre> So that&#x27;s what these tiny tiles are, something ultrasonic, not tiny wheels.<p>EDIT: Found some more explanation in a reddit comment. [2]<p><pre><code> Ultrasound vibration makes it slippery, then it has an X-Y pistons underneath. So it makes itself slippery when it wants to reset position, then makes itself sticky again when it wants to move you back into position. Now repeat this process to fast for you to tell anything is happening. </code></pre> [1]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;image-ppubs.uspto.gov&#x2F;dirsearch-public&#x2F;print&#x2F;downloadPdf&#x2F;10228758" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;image-ppubs.uspto.gov&#x2F;dirsearch-public&#x2F;print&#x2F;downloa...</a><p>[2]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;BeAmazed&#x2F;comments&#x2F;19eef29&#x2F;comment&#x2F;kjfll16&#x2F;?utm_source=reddit&amp;utm_medium=web2x&amp;context=3" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;BeAmazed&#x2F;comments&#x2F;19eef29&#x2F;comment&#x2F;k...</a>
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BryanLegendover 1 year ago
John Carmacks take:<p>I am skeptical of something like this making an impact for consumer VR, but it should be possible to integrate the sensor input at the OpenXR level, allowing it to work with all apps without needing per-app specialization.<p>However, it probably doesn’t “solve” motion sickness, because the vestibular system still won’t think you are going forward. The bouncing around motion of walking does have a masking effect that will help some.<p>Source: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;ID_AA_Carmack&#x2F;status&#x2F;1750557236798148613" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;ID_AA_Carmack&#x2F;status&#x2F;1750557236798148613</a>
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metadatover 1 year ago
Direct link to the goods: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;68YMEmaF0rs?t=203" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;68YMEmaF0rs?t=203</a>
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Roritharrover 1 year ago
So, from looking at the video, it looks like these are wheels that can be angled so they make contact with whatever is on top of them more than the wheels next to them, applying a tiny bit of momentum in the desired direction to then angle out of the way while another wheel takes over. This is a really cool solution, but I can&#x27;t imagine it not feeling very weird while walking since it&#x27;s not you being moved with your entire contact surface area instead of some parts of your shoe getting dragged somewhere. In general the unexpected inertia must also feel really weird.
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tommoorover 1 year ago
It&#x27;s the human-scale version of these parcel sorting devices<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=PRS0Uj2WdpA" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=PRS0Uj2WdpA</a>
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mfwitover 1 year ago
Over my head, but heres the patent (pdf): <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;image-ppubs.uspto.gov&#x2F;dirsearch-public&#x2F;print&#x2F;downloadPdf&#x2F;10228758" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;image-ppubs.uspto.gov&#x2F;dirsearch-public&#x2F;print&#x2F;downloa...</a>
eggdaftover 1 year ago
For a long time I thought we were on a solid track to full VR, which would be indiscernible from reality. Recently I’ve realised that I was very wrong, and this is why. The visual element of VR is pretty much solved. Audio no problem. But the movement in space is intractable I now believe, and it is an absolutely critical issue that scuppers the whole idea.<p>Tricks like this can give you a better approximation but I don’t think it’ll ever be good enough. You want to jump, spin, crouch, crawl, lie down. And interact with others.<p>I think AR is going to be massive and Apple Vision Pro will be a big hit by gen 3 or 4, but VR is something likely to be “Human-Brain-Interface complete”.<p>Given HBI success will likely arrive on or after the time we reach AGI, I don’t really know how that’s going to work out. I think headsets will be really fun for a while, but we’re not going to get the full experience.<p>Unless we can suspend people in some kind of viscous fluid with respirators, and ummm people think that’s acceptable… suspend them on cables and blow compressed air at them? Google glass no longer looks so embarrassing…
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djhope99over 1 year ago
John Carmack pointed out on X that there is a fatal flaw in this design:<p>“I am skeptical of something like this making an impact for consumer VR, but it should be possible to integrate the sensor input at the OpenXR level, allowing it to work with all apps without needing per-app specialization.<p>However, it probably doesn’t “solve” motion sickness, because the vestibular system still won’t think you are going forward. The bouncing around motion of walking does have a masking effect that will help some.“<p>I personally could not get over the awful bout of motion sickness after I played my first “walking around” game on VR.
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BiteCode_devover 1 year ago
It&#x27;s very cool, but the guy answer sounds so corporaty that the only thing I hear is: patent, proprietary platforms, restricted use cases, we&#x27;ll make lots of money and sue anybody even drawing it. Have fun! We mandate it!
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Agrailloover 1 year ago
A little idea utilizing a new level of indirection. You might call it &quot;HoloTile meets Segway&quot;. A platform is one square meter (or rather circle) capable of moving in any direction (using conventional wheels). It is covered with HoloTile. A person on it just &quot;walks&quot; on it in any direction and the soft&#x2F;engine just moves him or her in this direction, but much faster. Probably some self-balancing magic is needed in order to keep the person standing firmly
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huytersdover 1 year ago
Oh that’s nice. Would love to see someone put it through its paces though. Like really try to run. It would be amazing to see something like this that you can’t physically get off of no matter how hard you try. That would be the pinnacle of what this thing can be.
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mistersquidover 1 year ago
This is totally a bit of speculation, but given Disney is one of the majors (only major?) with an app for the launch of Apple Vision Pro, [0] I can&#x27;t help but wonder what is coming from the NDA discussions between the teams working on HMD technology.<p>If the dais&#x2F;stage&#x2F;platform of the HoloTile product Lanny Smoot demos is a true prototype, it&#x27;s likely miniaturizable (as well as scaled up) for implementation in both court-sized and entertainment room-sized versions.<p>The future gets closer and closer.<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=jy94Ezsj9NE" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=jy94Ezsj9NE</a>
dudeinjapanover 1 year ago
Its nice to see Disney doing something other than destroying the movies, cartoons, and comics I loved as a kid.
jedbergover 1 year ago
In the video they ask, &quot;where do you see this tech being used&quot; and then seconds later show us someone moving a file cabinet with their mind.<p>I&#x27;m guessing the first place we will see this is in some live action Star Wars show to make things move with the Force.
alasdair_over 1 year ago
With a large enough version of this, safety could be an issue. Imagine getting trapped in the center and never being able to leave.
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graizover 1 year ago
You can read the patent here: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;patents.google.com&#x2F;patent&#x2F;US20180217662A1&#x2F;en" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;patents.google.com&#x2F;patent&#x2F;US20180217662A1&#x2F;en</a>
akamoonknightover 1 year ago
One thing my mom (an occupational therapist) brought up when seeing this was the potential applications for therapy. I&#x27;m not sure of the nuances, but one concept that comes to mind is that you could increase force on a user such that you can get a persons strength increasing without them even noticing it.<p>I&#x27;m not really sure what types of solutions currently exist in these spaces, and I&#x27;m sure that this would be a very expensive solution for this topic, but future thinking possibilities of this type of thing seem like they could have applications outside of just VR.
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odyssey7over 1 year ago
When I saw this, I was wondering whether Florida has a new startup-style VR project -- this time with the “Magic” Kingdom.<p>Unfortunately for the Sunshine State, Disney’s two research labs are located in Los Angeles and Zürich.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;la.disneyresearch.com&#x2F;labs&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;la.disneyresearch.com&#x2F;labs&#x2F;</a>
dubeyeover 1 year ago
Control immersion is massively overated. WASD won for a reason
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undotodayover 1 year ago
Outside of VR, there&#x27;s some other future uses (with the big assumption it will be easy &amp; cheap to implement some years in the future) that are interesting if you have a floor that can direct people&#x2F;objects.<p>Somewhere of course like a Disney theme park or an airport where you choose your destination and you&#x27;re shuttled to your gate with your luggage following.<p>Or perhaps a secure room&#x2F;floor in a building that if you don&#x27;t have authorization to you simply cannot walk into without being pushed out of it.<p>If we go dystopian, imagine a business suspects you of shoplifting and simply doesn&#x27;t let you leave, or shuttles you to security automatically.
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pmcfover 1 year ago
Beyond the VR thing. I keep thinking this could have more immediate impact on manufacturing and logistics. Imagine a delivery truck with this on the floor that could optimally organize packages dynamically.
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samstaveover 1 year ago
What would happen if the interior of a tube was lined with these, could they move an object cylinder through the tube?<p>What if you have the exterior covered in these, could they move (easily) a donut surrounding it?<p>What happens if you have these face each other?<p>can these be use for super slippery loading sled-tracks in ships, planes, trains? Whats the weight limits?<p>Can they be scaled down really small and basically put around a cable-line to slide things along like a zipline?
gremlinsincover 1 year ago
So many questions....If you&#x27;re in the middle of a room with this floor...... um, how do you get back out? is there an escape hatch? Could this be used in some fancy new prison? Could they add some sort of energy generation, so walking generates energy? Would that create even more incentive to incarcerate more people for longer? Where do I get one?
deafpolygonover 1 year ago
I imagine this has uses in more than just flooring for a Holodeck-like uses. I can imagine a smart factory powered by AI using this to move things around, or assisted living where you can help disabled people move around. Some form of it could be used underneath seating to create an advanced type of wheelchair or mobility device.
rgloverover 1 year ago
People are poo-pooing this, but this is the type of thing that someone like an Apple will fix the rough edges on and turn into a &quot;one in every house&quot; type of product (e.g., Apple Floor, Apple Ground, Apple Earth). For what it is: this is brilliant.
baerrieover 1 year ago
Until there is tech that makes a 3D feeling surface that can create corners, people, anything, vr will feel hollow. At this point, a full body suit that creates haptic responses to simulate feeling an object seems more feasible than a static exterior surface like this that fulfills the other half of the vr illusion.
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jorviover 1 year ago
Disney researches &#x2F; develops some really cool stuff. Their Disney Research Hub channel is a goldmine.<p>One of my favorites is Touché. The world becomes your touchscreen: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;E4tYpXVTjxA?si=Sbh97JURR9NGdeiS" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;E4tYpXVTjxA?si=Sbh97JURR9NGdeiS</a>
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searealistover 1 year ago
Nobody walks like that. I guess it only works if walk like a teenager sneaking out of the house late at night.
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mtlmtlmtlmtlover 1 year ago
This is really neat.<p>Although in Star Trek, holodecks never had such a feature. Instead the simulation would use trickery to make sure you&#x27;re never lead into the wall. E.g it would use illusions to trick you into thinking you&#x27;re walking straight, but you&#x27;re actually walking in a circle.
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jnsieover 1 year ago
Super cool but I&#x27;m guessing a long way to go. Notice that nobody lifts their feet when walking on this. I&#x27;m not sure if it&#x27;s fear (those small careful steps conjure images of people ice skating for the first time) or if the tech doesn&#x27;t work well in that scenario.
namuolover 1 year ago
When it comes to VR, for theme park use it’s hard to see how this would be more cost effective than a large open space, maybe with many floors stacked to maximize throughput. For home use this seems like it will never be cheap enough to be worth it. It’s very cool tech, though.
crtifiedover 1 year ago
Can we have it in the shoes, instead of the floor? Or, some combination of the two, working together?<p>(which may well, in some ways, be akin to the question &quot;would you prefer to stand on a conveyor belt, or roller skates?&quot; - but the errant thought occurs regardless..)
scotty79over 1 year ago
I wonder if you could get away with two motors per &quot;pixel&quot;. One motor spinning the fixed tilt wheel and the other rotating the axis of the spinning wheel around the vertical axis.<p>This setup should be able to impart the motion in any direction.<p>Is that how this works?
polynomialover 1 year ago
Seeing the video of multiple people on the holotile, in close proximity but completely oblivious to each other struck me as an apt metaphor for this technology.<p>He&#x27;s not wrong about dancers learning to do amazing moves on this surface tho.
furstenheimover 1 year ago
So annoying, it detects where I&#x27;m connecting from and redirects changing the language
FwarkaLark2over 1 year ago
I&#x27;m bullish on this! I&#x27;ll never pay to go to disney world or disney land (can never get these two parks straight) but this is a clear symptom of staying power of a technology.<p>This is better news for VR than facebook could ever manage.
gbolcerover 1 year ago
That reminds me of the battlefield3 simulator. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=eg8Bh5iI2WY" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=eg8Bh5iI2WY</a>
babyover 1 year ago
Carmack is skeptical<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;x.com&#x2F;id_aa_carmack&#x2F;status&#x2F;1750557236798148613?s=46" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;x.com&#x2F;id_aa_carmack&#x2F;status&#x2F;1750557236798148613?s=46</a>
alex_youngover 1 year ago
The videos make this floor look slick as ice. I wouldn’t want to walk around on something like that with a vr headset on. Sounds like a recipe for a broken arm.
nyteskyover 1 year ago
Community did it first.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;m.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=z4FGzE4endQ" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;m.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=z4FGzE4endQ</a><p>(Fixed link)
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bilsbieover 1 year ago
One idea for VR is to hold these static and let you walk around normally but anytime you stop walking they move you back to the center.
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mellosoulsover 1 year ago
This really doesn&#x27;t seem that new, just a neater implementation of prior competitor products like KatWalk and Virtuix Omni
shortrounddev2over 1 year ago
Boy it&#x27;s really annoying that videos get embedded from social media sites these days with no player controls on them
imwillofficialover 1 year ago
When did IGN become a ad riddled hell hole?
tortoise_inover 1 year ago
What is good here they are trying to do something unusual. Disnep movies and tech and fascinating
dpflanover 1 year ago
Can this technology be used in exo-skeletons? Providing support and mechanisms for movement?
Ringzover 1 year ago
What if I could now tilt the platform - on which the HoloTiles are mounted - in all directions?
bilsbieover 1 year ago
Does anyone know how it actually works? I can’t tell on the video.<p>They don’t look like wheels.
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golemotronover 1 year ago
Nice but Teamlab put Disney behind a while ago. They have no answer yet.
sebastianconcptover 1 year ago
And how does it perform when rotating, starting or stopping fast?
thih9over 1 year ago
But what about inertia? Is there a way to eliminate that?
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Andrew_nenakhovover 1 year ago
Hope nobody will die getting trapped on this.
kevindammover 1 year ago
&quot;inching&quot; being the key term here
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jncfhnbover 1 year ago
I usually shit on VR but this looks kind of cool. I can’t help but notice the people are basically shuffling around on it so I doubt it will scale effectively, but it’s cool.
darepublicover 1 year ago
Very cool but the killer app, watching someone sprint in place with a blindfold on is not seen
hanniabuover 1 year ago
But how does it work?
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jdksmdbtbdnmsmover 1 year ago
Is there a contest for the most stuffy and uncomfortable product reveal?
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derefrover 1 year ago
This is neat and all, but it seems to be yet another attempt to solve the (to me less-interesting) problem of how to have people use their feet as <i>input</i> for navigation in VR, while keeping them stationary; rather than an attempt at actually creating any high-fidelity sensation of <i>moving through space</i> in VR, according to your own human &quot;internal accelerometer&quot;. (I.e. the sense you have that combines inputs from your inner ear, wind against your skin, interoception as g-forces smush your organs around, etc.)<p>I presume that doing the latter would necessarily involve allowing you to <i>actually move away from center</i> within a bounded space — and then subtly re-centering you whenever you&#x27;re <i>not</i> moving.<p>Has any company ever put effort into developing a VR floor technology that works more like that? One that allows you to actually feel like you&#x27;re moving?<p>I bring this up, because it seems like the technology on display here <i>could</i> actually be made to do something akin to this, with a few more tweaks:<p>1. build a large room covered in this surface;<p>2. configure the surface to <i>not</i> actively slide you around while you&#x27;re moving, but instead, to only begin &quot;re-centering&quot; you when you stay still (or when you are walking slowly enough that your &quot;internal accelerometer&quot; isn&#x27;t receiving much input anyway);<p>3a. design the VR experiences consumed through such a platform, so that you&#x27;d <i>mostly</i> only have reason to walk, with &quot;free-roam&quot; areas where running would <i>make sense</i> only lasting a few seconds at a time, broken up with dialogue &#x2F; interactions &#x2F; etc. to give the floor time to re-center you.<p>3b. Or, if these are VR <i>games</i>, then as another option, use a stamina system in the game that depletes as you run in real life (bonus if your character&#x27;s stamina drains exponentially the further you get from the center of the floor); and have the player wear a force-feedback resistance system (i.e. a TENS unit on their legs) that effectively cripples you physically from doing any more running, for as long as your character is out of stamina. (Verisimilitude!)<p>4. Either way, you probably still need a fallback if you manage to get near the edge of the room somehow. Like if you&#x27;re completely ignoring what&#x27;s happening on-screen and just running in a scene where your character is supposed to be stationary + talking to someone. So have the floor <i>actively</i> re-center you, like is shown here, only when you get near the edge — and hyperbolically, with more force as you get closer to the edge.<p>5. Some impetuous people will run full-tilt just to see if they can overcome the floor. So make sure to pad the walls. :)<p>That being said, while I think that kind of set-up might <i>work</i>... the real trouble with it is that a passive system doesn&#x27;t prevent people from bumping into one-another. Which is fine if players&#x27; real-world positions are meant to correlate 1:1 with their in-game positions (or if, like in the demo video, there&#x27;s no true per-individual &quot;VR&quot;, just a shared wraparound screen in the room.) But it probably means that for true &quot;immersive VR worlds&quot; (i.e. a hypothetical VRMMO), you&#x27;d need one huge room <i>per player</i>. And that&#x27;s a bit impractical, price- and space-wise!
crystaldecanterover 1 year ago
now do climate change
ARandomerDudeover 1 year ago
It’s a treadmill that attaches to a phone you can strap to your face. Neat, I guess.