What is a pig butchering scam? (2023)

Everyone with elderly parents needs to at some point sit down and have “The Talk” with them about online scams and ideally media literacy in general. The scams are getting more sophisticated (technically and socially) and the scammers are getting much more patient and long-term focused since they can rely on not getting shut down. With convincingly articulate LLMs on the horizon, the problem is only going to get worse and more accessible to would be scammers.<p>Yes, it’s not just the elderly who are victims of these, but a lot of people at that age are too trusting of strangers and of people who <i>sound like</i> authorities. And let’s face it: older people have all the wealth in the world anyway so they’re more likely to be fruitful targets.

I like to string scammers along for fun, if I have spare time.<p>These &quot;pig butchering&quot; scams provide hilarious possibilities.<p>They like to send their photo pretty early (always an attractive Asian lady), so I try and beat them to the punch and send my own photo (of course, also a photo of an Asian lady). Curiously, this doesn&#x27;t deter them! My wife finds this particularly hilarious.<p>One time, I had 2 people randomly texting me at the same time, using the same name - Jenny. I started sending them screenshots of each other&#x27;s conversations, which kind of annoyed them. &quot;Which Jenny is this? Do you know the other Jenny?&quot; lol<p>A list of things which also doesn&#x27;t seem to deter them or make them think they might be being toyed with:<p>- Claiming to work for the FBI (in an anti-scammer unit)<p>- Being homeless<p>- Claiming to be Peter Frampton<p>- Claiming to be Bill Clinton

The thing that I don&#x27;t understand is why the telecom companies that are letting these scammers SMS spam en masse are not being cut out of the domestic telecom market. There should be a certain percentage of spam reports to legitimate messages that is just permadeath for the telco. I&#x27;m pretty sure if I tried to use twilio to send these kinds of messages I&#x27;d get banned, but there are sketchy sms&#x2F;sip companies who go out of their way to enable the bad behaviour.<p>STIR&#x2F;SHAKEN is a good start, but we need to come down hard on this.

Jim Browning did a thing on these: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=vu-Y1h9rTUs" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=vu-Y1h9rTUs</a><p>The second half of the scam — the cryptocurrency theft. The one I&#x27;ve seen recently is variations on any of the terms &quot;ChatGPT MEV arbitrage ETH slippage bot&quot;; in essence, the author claims to have used ChatGPT to write a bot that <i>waves hands</i> does something something with arbitrage and makes tons of money. The explanation is technobabble, and the claims are often like &quot;earn returns of $2k&#x2F;day&quot;, which is of course solidly into the &quot;way too good to be true&quot; territory. The &quot;smart&quot; contract just steals your money, it&#x27;s that simple.<p>I have been seeing these <i>all</i> over my YouTube sponsored videos. I.e., <i>the scammers are running these as ads</i>. I&#x27;ve reported them as I see them, but thus far, YouTube has taken down exactly none of them, AFAICT. (In fact, my entire report history is 0% removed, despite every entry being a rather crystal clear ToS violation since I&#x27;d otherwise have been too lazy to go through the flow for it.) As I write this, both ad slots on the homepage are this scam.

Last Week Tonight, on this<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=pLPpl2ISKTg" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=pLPpl2ISKTg</a>

<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;BvEqS" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;BvEqS</a>

I had one of these working on me for a while, years ago. It took me a while to catch on but then I also am not quick to send money to someone. The scammer reached out from a public forum (language learning app) and then traded WhatsApp numbers. At first I thought it was just an eccentric person, but then I realized their goal was to get me to &quot;invest&quot; with their &quot;rich uncle&quot;.<p>At this point I hadn&#x27;t heard about this specific scam, as most scams are kind of low effort and quick to screen people for susceptibility. This one surprised me in that they were very good at acting like someone they claimed to be. Google Translate has gotten to the point where people can carry on a conversation in their own language and talk to someone in English without sounding too odd.<p>Before I blocked the scammer I took a closer look at &quot;her&quot; WhatsApp profile. She was a business account. Big red flag, I wish I had noticed that before. Still, if no money changes hands it&#x27;s free entertainment? I also learned by paper trading on Forex that I suck at it and shouldn&#x27;t play that game.<p>Crypto scammers also sometimes try to play the long game, and I think they are based in different countries from the pig butchers. I met one through the same platform and saw through it right away, but noticed that they were working as a pitchman for another scammer.

The Darknet Diaries podcast recently had an episode on this type of scam: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;darknetdiaries.com&#x2F;episode&#x2F;141&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;darknetdiaries.com&#x2F;episode&#x2F;141&#x2F;</a>

PJ Vagt (from Reply All) has a FANTASTIC episode about this. Give it a listen, it&#x27;s one of the most interesting podcasts I&#x27;ve heard since the golden days of Reply All.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;pjvogt.substack.com&#x2F;p&#x2F;whos-behind-these-scammy-text-messages" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;pjvogt.substack.com&#x2F;p&#x2F;whos-behind-these-scammy-text-...</a>

Are there bank accounts that have a person watching every transaction and can call you to ask why you went to a Bitcoin ATM? A bank account an elderly person with dementia could use?

Cambodian slave labor<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bloomberg.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;newsletters&#x2F;2023-08-17&#x2F;crypto-text-message-scams-lead-back-to-cambodia-slave-labor" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bloomberg.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;newsletters&#x2F;2023-08-17&#x2F;crypto...</a>

I get a lot of scammers on my IG account messaging me. Typically they&#x27;re the profiles of young women. A lot of the time, I verbally insult them or ask how the cat fishing is going. My favorite is telling them to stand in front of a mirror with the current date written on a piece of paper. Since they&#x27;re all ESL, they fail this hard.<p>But one time, I decided to see how far I could take it.<p>Had a scammer message and follow me on IG. I went ahead with it. We kept it going for about a month which escalated to sending pretty scandalous pictures.<p>The scammer asked to me my d*ck. Full disclosure, I&#x27;m a pretty average 5.5 inches. Instead of sending a real picture of mine, I found one online of some guy who had a massive slong held next to what looked like a 7&#x2F;11 big gulp cup for comparison.<p>I sent the pic to him and immediately the scammer reveals himself and threatens to reveal my messages and pic to my other followers on IG unless I send him some Bitcoin.<p>I chuckle and say, &quot;go for it&quot;. Now my friends all know me really well and wouldn&#x27;t be phased by this. My buddies I went to school with know my size because of the sports teams I played on with them and they thought it was the funniest thing in the world.<p>The girls all immediately began talking amongst themselves and I started getting hit on by acquantances that followed me.<p>Was probably one of the funniest stunts I&#x27;ve ever done.

Father fell prey to one of these scams. He asked me about crypto trading and mining so I talked him through it. He then mentioned he was doing it through a company whose name was big in the forex world.<p>I got confused because the forex company wasn&#x27;t involved in crypto so I asked him for the site nor was anything he said related to trading or mining.<p>Going to the site, i immediately knew it was a scam. I asked him how he got a hold of this and some chinese woman had cold texted him. He&#x27;s a senior so of course boomers are ripe for the pick since he lived alone. Ended up buying $10k worth of crypto to send to this scam site.<p>When he tried to withdraw they sent h some nonsense email about tax withholding from the WTO and subsequently &quot;froze&quot; his account until he deposited 75% more.<p>The worst part of the ordeal was how defensive he got with me about it. He was more concerned with the nonsensical scenario of him losing his PoA than losing $10k to an otherwise obvious scam.<p>I showed him some of the fun culturally insulting things I&#x27;ve said to indian and Chinese scammers who cold text.<p>Dad ended up getting a part time job to occupy himself and have some people to talk to. Haven&#x27;t heard about him day trading or mining crypto either. I said if he wants to get into day trading to do it through some US based company you&#x27;ve heard before and if he wants to mine crypto, then I&#x27;ll help him find hardware to do it.

I wonder when banks start offering delayed payment options, similar to vaults having timed locks.<p>You can transfer that 100k to the Very Reliable Businessman, but it&#x27;ll require you to accept the transfer now and confirm it 2-3 business days later before it activates.<p>I&#x27;d really want one of those on my accounts when I get older, preferably with a limit closer to 1k.

I have experience with this (but didn&#x27;t fall for the scam).<p>The scammer, whom I met on social media, was extremely convincing. She claimed to be wealthy. She has pictures with celebrities, pictures with her Lamborghini, and so on. She said her stepfather is an executive in the Monetary Authority of Singapore, which gives him access to information that other people cannot have. This information allows her to make currency pair trades that bring guaranteed profits. (This would be insider trading, technically.) She showed me screenshots of trades where she made $250,000 USD to $500,000 USD in a matter of 30 minutes (buys and sells in 30 minutes; timing is based on instructions from her stepfather). Then she encouraged me to make trades with my own money as well.<p>She asked me to install the Coinbase Wallet app. She asked me to press the Browse button in this app, then type seemingly random characters into the box. (Part of the scam here is that victims may not realize they are actually typing a website URL). The website then displays inside the Coinbase Wallet app, and its function appears to be part of Coinbase Wallet.<p>She had me create a demo account, and guided me through the steps of making a demo transaction and showed me that I could make a significant profit. Then she asked me to make a real account. By this point I was suspecting a scam so I did not go through.<p>All this happened over a period of 3 weeks, so the scammer takes her time to &quot;groom&quot; victims. An Asian lady who speaks Mandarin and speaks good English with the help of translation apps. I never met the lady in person (she claimed to be on the other coast of the USA), but I did have a video call with her. She claimed to have been using the website for two years (but in fact, internet records show this site was only created weeks before). I discovered that her phone numbers are Twilio and Google Voice VOIP numbers, and her IP address is Azure, which probably means she is logged in to an Azure VM from another country.<p>Warning signs: They are always far enough away that you can&#x27;t meet in person, but promises she will be moving to your city soon. (Or they are from your city, but currently away on business). Wants to switch to WhatsApp or Telegram. They always do video call to show that they are a real person. Shows off their wealth, mansion-like houses, fancy cars, dining at expensive restaurants. Casually mentions investing in crypto as their source of wealth. Then wants to show you how to invest in crypto yourself.<p>Edit: Here are some pictures the scammer shared with me. She is with celebs (Asian celebs, I don&#x27;t recognize them), in her new Lamborghini at the dealership and so on:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;imgur.com&#x2F;a&#x2F;uRKaE8g" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;imgur.com&#x2F;a&#x2F;uRKaE8g</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;imgur.com&#x2F;a&#x2F;HV7v1XF" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;imgur.com&#x2F;a&#x2F;HV7v1XF</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;imgur.com&#x2F;a&#x2F;vDvifL2" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;imgur.com&#x2F;a&#x2F;vDvifL2</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;imgur.com&#x2F;a&#x2F;sI01Upb" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;imgur.com&#x2F;a&#x2F;sI01Upb</a>

An insight that allowed me to get past mental blockers to bargaining (guilt, awkwardness, etc...) was the thought &quot;I am a person, just like you, not some animal to be milked&quot;<p>This allows the price to be sought in a non-adversarial way since it makes building a connection and understanding of the local situation a part of the communication.<p>Much of the awkwardness comes from not really understanding how the local market and local way of life works while also basically being royalty from an economic perspective. This out-of-touchness creates a principal agent problem where the &quot;foreign&quot; other is distrusted but also relied on for &quot;truth&quot;.<p>The negative experience doesn&#x27;t come from the literal economic damage of being scammed but being treated (or programmed) like a pig let to slaughter.

The fake apps for the scam are egregious. Come on Apple Store.<p>Honestly for ACH and wire transfers they should have required financial counseling before executing — I remember that women with the “CIA” cash scam was handed a brochure, maybe they should sit down with CFP or someone before they can execute.

<i>the scammer seizes the opportunity to strike up a conversation and guide the victim toward feeling like they’ve hit it off with a new friend</i><p>Ah, so not something we of the &#x27;tism need worry about. The only way I respond to wrong numbers is by blocking them.

My company has phishing tests regularly. There needs to be a subscription service to test your elderly and disabled loved ones on their ability to discern a scam from non-scam.

I&#x27;ve encountered this so many times, and it always follows a similar pattern. I tell them to fuck off in Chinese and call it a day.

Is there a sustainable business for a company that monetizes defenses against pig butchering?<p>If you could make a honey pot LLM that engages the scammers, costing them time and learning their patterns, even misleading the scammers and figuring out their crypto wallets, could that be a profitable endeavor?

John Oliver did an excellent explainer about how pig butchering works.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=pLPpl2ISKTg" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=pLPpl2ISKTg</a><p>(apologies if the YouTube link has geographic restrictions, don&#x27;t know if it does)

Doesn&#x27;t help how even a legitimate investing platform often won&#x27;t let you withdraw money immediately.

There’s something missing from all these discussions. The country where the caller is located.

paywalled

There is a move to rename the crime to &quot;financial grooming&quot; because the term &quot;pig butchering&quot; is an intentional form of victim shaming. Anyone who is still using the term pig butchering should be immediately discredited.