It's disheartening so many don't see the brain as a physical part of ourselves, just the mental. To describe this individual as suffering from "crippling depression" but also "physically healthy" when they clearly suffer from long term mental health problems feels like an oxymoron.<p>I'm not sure for what reason people think everyone needs to be alive and live long natural lives. If she doesn't end her life humanely and in the comfort of trained professionals, she can just simply do it at home in a far more unpleasant way. Hope it all goes well for them.
My BIL suffered from depression all his life - ups and downs and sometimes he had to get electroshock therapy when the meds did not work.<p>The last time I saw him he was just like a zombie from all the medications he was on.<p>He committed suicide just before Xmas a few years back and I had to wait for the coroner and the cops before I could move the step ladder and they kindly removed the rope from the beam.<p>I wished he had a more dignified option available to him and that his wife did not find him like that but I doubt his family would have accepted his decision to end his own life.
The Cynic and Stoic schools of anqiue philosophy found freedom in choosing death.<p>It's a big part of why so many big name romans fell on their swords on defeat, metaphorically or literally. Self-determination was seen as a bigger virtue than life, and e.g. Cato killing himself was regarded as a way to rob Julius Caesar of ultimate victory, turning him into a sort of martyr for the philosophy.<p>I am willing to grant them the point that in a hypothetical society where suicide was not taboo, but an mundane and uncontroversial act, a lot of things we consider problems would vanish overnight. Indentured servitude, extortion, social injustice, slavery. All these hinge on a human being having no way out of mistreatment. In such a society, it would be largely impossible to compel anyone to do something against their will.<p>At first glance, this seems like it would benefit the bullies, but if you think further, you realize they would find themselves completely isolated without allies. The only way to successfully work with other people would be through cooperation.<p>It's obviously not entirely realistic to have a society that functions this way, but it's arguably an underexplored counterfactual that raises questions regarding who actually benefits from particular taboo.
> themirror<p>Ah mate I don't know about that.<p>> healthy young woman who struggles with crippling depression, autism and borderline personality disorder<p>Besides a large hole and some rust, the Titanic is in tip top shape.
How can she be "physically healthy" if she has depression? What is causing the depression, if not a malady of her physical body, such as her brain? It's an organ and it can be irreparably damaged, just like a kidney.<p><i>"But what if she gets better?"</i>, some say. What if she <i>doesn't</i>? What if there is no cure in her case? You may have gotten over a case of depression yourself, just like some people have recovered from a cancer. Does that mean that all cancers patients will eventually heal? So what makes you think that depression is any different?<p>Either way, if an adult is unwilling to live, they should be allowed to end their lives with dignity. Your desire to <i>not</i> go through with it yourself is not sufficient to deny it to others. We are all adults and can make our own decisions.<p>May the earth be light upon her.
related discussion from thefp.com reporting: <a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39915254">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39915254</a><p>Related material:<p><i>Dutch Euthanasia Report</i> 2021 (English PDF): <a href="https://wfrtds.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/RTE_JV2021_ENGELS_def.pdf" rel="nofollow">https://wfrtds.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/RTE_JV2021_ENG...</a><p>Number cases (1998-2022): <a href="https://www.statista.com/statistics/1363041/netherlands-euthanasia/" rel="nofollow">https://www.statista.com/statistics/1363041/netherlands-euth...</a><p>Odd internal variations by district and other factors: <a href="https://healthcare-in-europe.com/en/news/a-critical-look-at-the-rising-euthanasia-rates-in-the-netherlands.html" rel="nofollow">https://healthcare-in-europe.com/en/news/a-critical-look-at-...</a><p>I haven't found a before|after comparison of suicide in the area, the report distinguishes between "Termination of life on request" (the bulk of cases) and "assisted suicide" - the criteria for differentiation of these likely has to do with terminal illness and quality of life.<p>In 2021 it was 7,459 Termination on request Vs 189 assisted suicide.
It's a very difficult choice to make and I have full sympathies for the lady. I also respect herc choice, considering that it was made by her own free will and complies with the law of the land.<p>However, I still feel a bit conflicted about this situation. As per the report, she is physically fit, has a loving boyfriend, a pet cat, and doesn't seem to be in any monetary duress. Plus, she happens to be living in one of the happiest and prosperous countries in the world.<p>When I compare her with a vast multitude of people in developing countries who continue to toil against all odds (physical, mental, societal, economic, etc.), I feel that she should have been encouraged to not give up.<p>An old song that has always stuck with me has lyrics that say, "there is so much pain in the world; (comparatively) my pain is so little. When I saw people's pain, I forgot my own."<p>Of course, these are just my thoughts. I fully respect her (& everybody else's) rights to decide what's best for them. May she be at peace with her decision and enjoy her remaining days in a better frame of mind.
I wonder if she tried MAOIs. Those are criminally underused.<p><a href="https://www.psychotropical.com/10-patient-stories-a-long-story-of-avoidable-suffering/" rel="nofollow">https://www.psychotropical.com/10-patient-stories-a-long-sto...</a>
An existentially unfulfilled life can be as much of a prison or torture as any physical illness. Treatment resistant depression also can cause great suffering. If I were in the condition of disability that denied living a full life, I would also contemplate an orderly shuffling off of this mortal coil. The problem now is that having raised a taboo personal right, the knee-jerk clinical patronizing automatic response is to provide therapy, counseling, and mood altering medications perhaps up to and including involuntary treatment without informed consent. They then become caught in a Catch-22 that does not prioritize an individual's wishes.
This one I struggle with. I believe in the right of self determination but I cannot help but ask the question "Have you tried..?" ..because mental can be cured for some. For others it is unassailable. The most natural course is to encourage someone with a mental condition to try these other things first, but I would not ask the same of someone with a physical condition, but with the brain we know very little.<p>It is a struggle between providing support for a person who has chosen to end their life, and not standing in their way should they ultimately choose to go forward.
I am terrified of the thought of legally killing people and this article has made me feel quite odd, even slightly sick I would say.<p>My gut just screams at me: this is wrong. And I cannot help.<p>The rational arguments do not convince me at all. Call me old fashioned or whatever but this is how I feel about it, and since there is an article about this I imagine that there might be certain interest in this being out of the ordinary.
6 year old article in dutch [1] about Zoraya (the woman in question) already back then planning her premature death:<p>> She claims the right to a dignified ending: euthanasia. "You can buy a rope, you climb up an apartment and a train also runs. But why is it made so difficult for us? Why do you have to be 75 before you have a completed life? Say that maybe we can get better? That's what you say not even against a cancer patient who has completed treatment."<p>Rough read. Jesus.<p>[1] <a href="https://www.tubantia.nl/oldenzaal/zonder-juiste-medicijnen-wil-zoraya-22-uit-oldenzaal-niet-verder-leven~a6575e9e/" rel="nofollow">https://www.tubantia.nl/oldenzaal/zonder-juiste-medicijnen-w...</a>
Physically healthy how? Just because she doesn't have any medical conditions or because she exercises on a regular basis.<p>In the latter case, recent studies have shown exercise to be even more effective than medication or therapy. As so keeping a clean diet (which is so much harder than anyone realizes with all the petro-chemicals everywhere). I feel like this used to be (if not for the mass indoctrination by the church of Big Pharma) common sense.<p>It's a little silly to encourage or enable such a young woman to take such a drastic step without asking critical questions and trying to address the problem, and then acting like your morally superior for supporting "her choice".<p>If you really gave a damn, maybe you actually encourage her toward life, but so many nowadays are so hopelessly nihilistic they would just as soon join her. Sad.
I wish more countries recognized the ultimate and inviolable right to self ownership. If we aren’t free to destroy ourselves if we so desire, we aren’t actually free.
Haven't read the article, but does it say why'd she go for euthanasia? I'd imagine there are dignified ways of bringing this matter into one's own hands.<p>Edit: I think this may have come off as “geez just kill yourself and spare us the drama”, but I’m just genuinely curious why’d she choose one over the other whenever I assume she has the means to pursue both.
This article is disingenuous by only referring to expert opinion from a Christian university, which is obviously against euthanasia. Experts from other universities would provide a more nuanced view on the subject.
Furthermore when the article discusses an increase in numbers, they don't mention that 60% of euthanasia is performed for individuals who suffer from late stage cancer. Most others are generally very old, and will only suffer without remit for the rest of their lives.<p>The procedure for this woman to have been granted euthanasia is not something that is easy to get through. It is mentioned she has suffered from this disease for all of her life and there is no cure. Multiple medical doctors need to be in agreement before a request for euthanasia is granted in any case. There is even more scrutiny when it is about a young person as well as when the disease is mental in nature.<p>In all, I hated reading this article, because it's extremely far from the truth about how the Netherlands have implemented their euthanasia laws. I suggest reading up on it from more reputable sources than `the mirror`
This was a fascinating read and really got me thinking about the morality of suicide all things considered. We’ve collectively decided as a society that suicide is a bad thing, and rarely is mental health treated the same as physical in the realm of euthanasia.
It's very strange that the doctors told her "There’s nothing more we can do for you. It’s never gonna get any better." Was that an irresponsible off-hand remark or what? Especially given the disorders she has, perhaps if it was severe schizophrenia or some kind of neurogenerative disorder, but autism + depression + bpd? I highly doubt that they have exposed her to all possible treatment methods, which in my opinion they should do before allowing her to take her own life.
Rough read.<p>It's hard for me to even imagine such a state of mind, and the suffering one experiences. Somehow the fact that the euthanization takes place in your own home gives me the creeps. I really wonder what drives people to work in this space? In the case of pets or animals being put down it's a vet that does the deed, is it doctors in this case?<p>Also, her therapist claiming that "There’s nothing more we can do for you. It’s never gonna get any better" sounds like an enormous red flag for me. Some authority should take a long hard look at a professional therapist speaking like that, especially considering the proximity/possibility of human euthanasia, or just suicide in general.<p>I was positive to euthanasia before this article (I had considered it primarily for terminally ill people and such), but this really turned me off. I can't believe we made suicide a legal depression cure before when there's been so much talk about shrooms/acid and such perhaps being helpful.