Summary for anyone who can't listen:<p>* Dan says John emailed him and just said it was time to move on and try something new. Dan says he has total respect and understanding for that.<p>* Dan says he thought if they weren't doing the show anymore, they would retire it together. Surprised and disappointed that John's doing the show on his own and re-using the name.<p>* Dan wishes they could have done one last episode to reminisce (120 previous episodes) and to thank the fans.<p>* Dan encourages fans to listen to the new show at muleradio.net.<p>* No other sordid details, just some personal anecdotes.<p>I've never listened to any 5by5 podcasts on 5by5, but Dan Benjamin comes across in this audio clip as a total class act.
Disclosure: Dan is my friend. He's actually one of my best friends. I know far more about this situation than most, I am not unbiased.<p>I love Dan for doing this. I think it was the right way to address listeners and also express himself on the topic.<p>John doesn't need to give his take if he doesn't want to -- and I don't think anyone would expect him to.<p>People do expect more transparency with Dan, and that's why, however uncomfortable this might have been to discuss, I'm glad Dan took the time to do.<p>In my professional life, I spend a lot of time analyzing, criticizing and discussing various PR maneuvers of major companies and brands. To me, it's always telling to see how a company or brand deals with a difficult situation.<p>I think Dan's approach here (and again, I'm totally biased -- though I try to look at this objectively and out of the lens of "my friend") was a great example of how to deal with a private business situation that becomes public.<p>No one is a villain here. No one did anything wrong. But I'm glad Dan got a chance to talk to his listeners. It's why I listen.<p>Well done Dan.
I've had this nagging feeling for a while that Gruber, while a superb writer, is probably insufferable in real life. That particular kind of nerd that's dangerously smart, always right about whatever they're saying, and just miserable to be around.<p>I don't want to read in to things (any more than I already am, I guess,) but it sure feels like Gruber handled this poorly. For someone running a site supported nearly entirely by reader contributions and pageviews, it would have been a little more respectable to handle this whole ordeal like a grown-up instead of playing the "I can do what I want, I don't owe you anything, get a life already" card so heavily.
Summary: Dan used to listen to podcasts daily, used to get a real feel for the people he was listening too. So he thinks it's a bit of a shame they can't even do a "one last show." But he wishes all the best.<p>I love listening to 5by5 episodes. Mainly the siracusa one, and at some point I'll check out Grubers new podcast. My thoughts are that losing Dan from the show is a negative, he's a great speaker with a soothing voice and I enjoy the smalltalk he makes.
When Gruber said "Readability is run by scumbags" [1] for hijacking referral links, I'd say right back at you, John Gruber, you're a scumbag for hijacking the name of the show and exiting with a total lack of class.<p>I hope the fluffing [2] Mike Monteiro [3] gave you was worth tossing Dan and 5by5 under the bus.<p>[1]: <a href="http://daringfireball.net/linked/2012/03/30/readability" rel="nofollow">http://daringfireball.net/linked/2012/03/30/readability</a><p>[2]: <a href="http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fluffing" rel="nofollow">http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fluffing</a><p>[3]: <a href="http://twitter.com/mike_wtf" rel="nofollow">http://twitter.com/mike_wtf</a>
Striking juxtaposition of this statement to the "new" Talk Show, (<a href="http://muleradio.net/thetalkshow/1/" rel="nofollow">http://muleradio.net/thetalkshow/1/</a>) in which Gruber makes zero mention of Dan or his decision to move on, and instead chooses to start things off talking about.. baseball.
'My friend John Gruber' etc. without any restriction – I'm very happy to hear that at least Dan Benjamin still sees John Gruber as a friend.<p>Dan Benjamin has really class, even in a situation that can't be easy for him.
I give Dan Benjamin huge respect for doing this, he certainly didn't have any obligation to do so. Gruber and Mike Monteiro on the other hand have basically given the audience a massive fuck you. I am not really surprised by that but it is a disappointment and has put me off checking out the new Talk Show going forward, or indeed any Mule Radio podcasts. Dan will be fine anyway, 5by5 has some of the best shows on the internet.
I really enjoyed his bit about how listeners become (unidirectional) "friends" with the hosts that they spend so much time listening too. Dan really understands the sense of loss that the fans feel over not being informed, and I am glad he broached that topic. Of course, this doesn't justify some of the showings of massive entitlement on Twitter etc. But I am glad he recognized the emotional investment of the fans.
Gruber is taking a page out of the Apple PR book by not saying anything, unless there is something good to be said. This may help move the news cycle along but it's still no way to treat a friend.
There were lots of armchair quarterbacks talking about how "they don't owe us anything".<p>There were lots of comments from Gruber, Mike, etc basically mocking people for being upset that the show dropped Dan and moved with no warning.<p>Dan pretty much nailed it: he feels like they owed the fans one last episode to say goodbye and they didn't get to do that.
Dan truly is a class act. His shows have been a huge source of insight and entertainment to me over the last few years. I'm clicking the "Donate" button on the 5by5 site.
Dan's the best... I am sure 5by5 will do just fine with such superhits like Hypercritical, Back to Work, Build and Analyze etc...<p>Taking a cue from Dan, i wish Gruber the best, though honestly i won't be listening to him any more
It's a shame, but they'd had a long run of shows, Gruber clearly wanted to do something else which is fine. Could he have handled it better? Sure, of course.<p>Plus they're still friends on Twitter, and we all know that it's only serious if you unfollow.
Not exactly the drama I think everyone was looking for, but I never expected any reaction other than this from Dan. Whether this is the 100% complete truth, we'll never know and we shouldn't care. Time to move on folks, nothing else to see here.
Jonathan Mann wrote a song about the demise of The Talk Show<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OA2yG6FdfPs" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OA2yG6FdfPs</a><p><a href="http://www.jonathanmann.net/" rel="nofollow">http://www.jonathanmann.net/</a>
You have to wonder if John expected this level of backlash. It reminds me of LeBron James' "The Decision" in a lot of ways.<p>He may be good, but he'll never be loved.
I was prepared to hate the new talk show and Mule Radio Syndicate, but to my surprise, John Gruber sound a lot more energetic than pretty much the last year, now if he can get a co-host to rein him in from time to time and at the same time contribute his/her own thoughts... I think Massimo and Julia from "Rationally Speaking" are a perfect couple. Leo LePorte and Dan Benjamin are total nice guys but seldom say anything insightful, they generally just make light jokes and move the topic along.<p>I skipped "Let's make mistakes" for nearly half a year before yesterday, they've gotten better I'll have to say.<p>All in all John Gruber probably was being an ass, now he can be as much of an ass as he want. He can't beat Mike Monteiro on that front.<p>I enjoy asses.
Dan seems conflicted over how it went down, but I'm left feeling this statement shows he is quite angry with John and begrudges how John handled things (no last show and re-using the show name). I disagree this is a 'classy' statement (because of the criticism of his ex-co-host).<p>I think its trying to be a straightforward telling of Dan's perspective without him being too emotional. I think its pretty good for that. Would love for all parties to to be as open and honest as they can as it will make for compelling radio!<p>Disclosure: I'm a $5 a month subscriber to 5by5, a Gruber fan, and a big fan of Let's Make Mistakes (and Mike in general).
I wonder if i'm the only one that finds Gruber annoying to listen to after knowing what kind of person he seems to be. I guess i'll swing by DF weekly instead of daily...
I would think that mule radio would be on precarious legal ground carrying and unauthorized continuation of what is (likely) the intellectual property of 5by5. Hard to say for certain without seeing the agreement between 5by5 and Dan but I'm surprised they wouldn't give the show a new name.<p>(On a personal note I think Dan is getting screwed here after doing most of the work and this has finely put me over the edge in considering Gruber a git)
To me 50% of this show was Dan Benjamin. Without him it will not be the same show, even if Gruber is the main draw card. Sad to see him leave, but I'm more interested in what is ahead for Dan. He has a great network.
The final seconds of the last show[1] are pretty uncomfortable to listen to.<p>[1] <a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2443832/Screenshots/Marker%201.m4a" rel="nofollow">http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2443832/Screenshots/Marker%201.m4a</a>
I like Gruber's writing and often chafe at some of the less-insightful things people have to say about him, but I agree 100% with Dan here. It would have been right for Gruber and him to properly cap off the show for the listeners. It would have been right to acknowledge that it really isn't the same show anymore. In addition, it would have been right for Gruber to say how great of a co-host Dan has been, because he has been.<p>But none of those things happened, and that is shitty. There's really no two ways about it.<p>This isn't about "I wasn't consulted". This is about respect for the audience and saying at least a few words to them, for crying out loud. It's about acting like they matter just a little. What exactly is The Talk Show, or any show, without listeners? This isn't taking a page out of the Apple PR book -- Apple actually <i>does</i> explain their reasoning for why they do things, when those things affect how people relate to what they make.
Who listens to IT podcasts? the world is full of rich and wonderful media broaden your horizons, listen to something that isn't backdated garbage. Imagine all the music genres you could discover, educational materials, languages you could learn, audiobooks ..