Tipping doesn't make any sense

I'm not sure the comparison to other industries is apt- servers serve you, and the majority of the quality of their output comes directly from their personal interactions with you. Contrast this to, say, a programmer, where the majority of the quality of their output comes from their product- if the software they write is good, their interactions with the customer (if any) are not very important.<p>Tips in serving and other interaction-heavy professions (doormen, barbers, delivery people) allow a much more immediate feedback loop for poor service than the traditional "If you suck, you'll get fired in a month or two" system.<p>The reason there's a standard tip amount is because that gives people something to deduct from for particularly bad service. If the default were no tip, customers would have to fall back on the traditional feedback mechanisms (that are both slow and considerably more effort) like complaining the the manager.<p>Personally, I'd say the biggest argument against tipping is that it tends to reflect many things that are largely outside the server's control: food quality, food preparation time, atmosphere, general dining experience.

The practice of tipping services a bunch of business purposes:<p>* It creates a spectrum of competition for server spots; service staff at fine dining restaurants make significant amounts of money but must hustle to secure those jobs; service staff at diners make reliable but low amounts of money and can easily find work.<p>* It functions as a commission system; servers who sell higher-priced products get superior returns from those tables, which suits the aims of the restaurant itself. Servers who can move wine make significantly more than servers who can't, and in good restaurants, wine is where the restaurant makes its money.<p>* It obviously helps ensure that servers are polite and helpful, which, restaurants being in the hospitality industry, is obviously a core part of the value proposition.<p>* More importantly, it incentivizes servers to increase table turnover.<p>These are all functions that could be managed at varying levels of effectiveness by other compensation schemes, but those other schemes don't actually improve outcomes for consumers; they raise prices and reduce transparency.

I don't know why, but this is a topic about which people often hold very strong views. I agree with the author, but I feel like this viewpoint is discouraged, at least in the US; tipping is mandatory, and it is considered rude not to tip.<p>But, if tipping is mandatory, why not just advertise the real price? Take a cabe ride for example: I pay the driver to take me from point A to B. He (or she) completes this task, and I pay them. Very rarely do I feel like I have received exceptional service, and often the drivers are rude and impatient. But I have to tip at least 10-15% or I'm an asshole.<p>Maybe we'd all receive better service if we stopped compulsory tipping, and instead only tipped when we receive good customer service.

There are a lot of strange practices that exist within society and there are probably good historical reasons for why tipping emerged in the United States. Perhaps it'd be better not to fuss over it and instead focus on changing things that really matter, rather than fighting arbitrary social norms that are inconsequential in the long run.

Love this article. I worked in the restaurant industry for 6 years, mainly as a cook, so I didn't get tipped as my wages were decent, but when I did exceptional service, I did receive a "Please give this to the cook" tip and it made me feel good. I normally tip, but at the same time, I hate that people feel they are mandatory to tip... No it's a reason for exceptional service, not "I served you food, you tip me". If you rely on your tips then look for a different job. If you make me feel obligated to tip you, I won't and it won't bother me either.<p>That being said, I am really bad at tipping $10 for a $5 beer... :(

First, I have to agree, tipping is a bizarre system/cultural norm, and I am very curious about how, historically, this came to be...<p>From my perspective, I spent a year working as a barista and bartender part-time when I first moved to New York, and I would estimate that 80% of those who work as a waiter, barista or bartender do it to support themselves as they pursue whatever it is they do (the usual suspects: acting, art, music, writing, school etc.). This is what kids do to get by--they're not committed in any way to the place they work.<p>At my coffee shop (not at restaurants or bars) I got paid minimum wage plus tips, which at the time was something like $8 + on average $4 to $8 an hour. I can't say I agreed or disagreed with the system at the time, or that I even thought about it, but from my experience the lure of tips greatly outweighed any set amount of (low) salary I would have received. For example, I've gotten a couple $100 tips from Wall St. ballers, or one time $40 from a man just for pouring a cup of coffee! If you work at any number of restaurants, the odds are much higher that on any given night, you will win the tip lottery. And the more a man drinks, the more he will open his heart (and wallet) to the young, struggling artist behind the bar.<p>For the waiter/bartender/barista, I would guess that the average wage comes out to about the same as a respectable working wage for the skills involved (maybe $15-$20/hr). If you work at a Michelin rated restaurant, you would have to get a much much higher starting salary to compensate for a lack of tips, at least in NYC.

On another note, I think it's important to separate discussions on whether you disagree with the tip system from discussions on whether, assuming you disagree with the tip system, you should tip or not.<p>I think this is the source of a lot of the animosity around this issue- debating the merits of tipping is fine, but <i>not</i> tipping at a restaurant where it's expected takes out your frustration with a system by punishing a person (the server) who has no control over that system.

Being European I have never understood the tipping culture. However the Brits (and other European countries) don't have a tipping culture but have a '12.5% service charge' at restaurants.<p>I believe to avoid any ambiguity you simply have a all or nothing policy.

I don't know about other Americans, but when I visit other countries I typically find the servers nice but slow and the overall quality of service much lower.<p>When I was a server I would work hard to make sure I got every dollar. The tip is always on your mind, all night.<p>The other good thing about tipping is that it also makes the job a sales job. The higher the bill, the higher the tip and therefore it properly aligns incentives with the restaurant. The exception to that is fraud where a server provides free items to attempt to get a larger tip.<p>I get that it must be extremely irritating for people from outside the US to get a price and then have to do the math to figure out what it really costs, but that is a small price to pay for superior service all the time.

People have weird reactions. If a guy discovers his girlfriend is sleeping with someone else, he will be angry at the other guy. Why? The 'other guy' had no relation with him, he simply met a nice girl and wanted to have a good time. The girl was in a relation with him; he should be angry at her!<p>When I enter a restaurant, I see a price on the menu and this is what I intend to pay. When I order the food, this is my agreement with the restaurant: pay what is asked. The server might be angry at me for not giving any tip, but as with the previous example, I have nothing to do with any contract the restaurant owner and the server might have. He accepted to work for a given salary. I might give a little extra if there's a parade for me or something, but not for just doing your job.

"Why don’t we tip the bus driver? And the doctors?"<p>I worked a couple of years as a lifeguard making essentially minimum wage and saved two children during that time. I received a thank you and appreciated it, but think there should be room for a ten spot.

We dined at Nardo's in Havana a summer ago. It's off of Central Park, in front of the Capitolium. Had a great time.<p>The waiter brought us a bill with a 10% service charge and I asked whether a tip was expected. I don't remember why I asked, perhaps the service charge seemed low or maybe I was just curious.<p>The waiter told me that of course the tip was expected... on top of the 10% service charge. This is because the service charge covers the staff in the kitchen while the tip covers the waiter :D.

I wonder how the math works out versus a no-tip scenario?<p>Tips are money that doesn't come out of the restaurant owner's pocket. Restaurants tend to run on pretty thin margins, so let's treat this as a zero sum game and assume that any increase in wait staff wages is necessarily passed on to the consumer. I know next to nothing about what a waitress earns or how a restaurant is run, so I'd appreciate if anyone wanted to shoot holes in my reasoning here. I'm genuinely curious, so treat this as a proposition of method, rather than proof.<p>Florida minimum wage for tipped employees is $4.65/hr. I live in Florida, so I'll go with that.<p>$4.65 x 40 hrs a week x 52 weeks a year is $9,672.00<p>I've known local waitresses who claim to take home around $30k a year (with tips).<p>$30k annually works out to a wage of $14.42/hr given the same 40 hrs x 52 weeks work schedule.<p>$14.42 is about 3 times $4.65<p>So in a general sense, the restaurant owner would have to pay his wait staff (around) three times as much in order to meet their tipped wage. Not having run a restaurant, I have no idea how that would affect the price of a meal. Can anyone with more knowledge pick it up from here?

"I don't tip because society says I have to. All right, if someone deserves a tip, if they really put forth an effort, I'll give them something a little something extra. But this tipping automatically, it's for the birds. As far as I'm concerned, they're just doing their job." -- Mr. Pink, 'Reservoir Dogs'

In robotised restaurants Americans will be leaving customary 20% tip for software and hardware maintenance crew.

There have been many discussions about whether or not servers will spit in your food if you're known not to tip. Whether this actually happens frequently or not (I don't believe it happens very often), it's a fear many people have and is probably a factor that keeps tipping alive.

The problem is that we are already in a vicious cycle, you can't break this cycle by not tipping though, all that does is screw the waiter/waitress. If we want to change things we need to do it with litigation to prevent employers from paying less than minimum wage.

Tipping would work better if people increased the tipping variance. When I have really shitty service =&#62; no tip. OK service 12% because anything less and I'm considered a jerk.<p>Why isn't 5% <i>standard</i> for OK, but rushed service?

It's my (uninformed and second-hand) impression that tipping-culture is often defined whether the waiters\servers are given minimum livable salary or whether the tip is the larger income.

I'd love to hear from the HN community reasons that make this one a good system, and hope to not generate too much of a religious war.

the example receipt from the article shows a frustrating concept that has always bothered me. the included 20% gratuity value is actually 20% of the after-tax total, not the pre-tax total. what logic would exist to tip on any sort of tax?

Regardless of anything else, it's wrong that servers are paid less per hour just because tips are common. This places an unfair burden on customers, and took tips from being part of a culture of discretionary generosity to being enshrined law. Since the tip is now required for the server to earn minimum wage, it is no longer a tip but a sort of marginally optional "fee."<p>IMO, a 10% service charge without expectation of a tip makes much more sense and is much fairer.<p>The entitlement culture in the service industry is so great that servers will angrily say things like "if you can't afford to tip on a bottle of wine, don't order it or stay home." Yikes. How about I just don't tip you.

The norm in US is average 15% which could be considered high in other countries. I have lived in 3 countries including US. The only sense I could make out of it is the fact that labor is considered premium in the US (not talking about cost here since that is debatable in 2012). I personally do not mind tipping well (read 20-25%) but I find it disturbing that a waiter gives me attitude, shitty service, forgets to bring straw for the drink and then expects a tip since it is the norm. My wife and I have a joke. Every time a waiter screws up, we deduct 1% from the norm. Every time a waiter does something <i>extra</i> (like being nice, on time, no order screw-ups), we add 1% to the norm.

take it to reddit

I rarely tip. But when I do, I do it with just the tip