TE
TechEcho
Home24h TopNewestBestAskShowJobs
GitHubTwitter
Home

TechEcho

A tech news platform built with Next.js, providing global tech news and discussions.

GitHubTwitter

Home

HomeNewestBestAskShowJobs

Resources

HackerNews APIOriginal HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 TechEcho. All rights reserved.

FAA investigating how counterfeit titanium got into Boeing and Airbus jets

223 pointsby levinb11 months ago

22 comments

draven11 months ago
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;MXtEe" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;MXtEe</a>
pfdietz11 months ago
A famous crash caused by a hidden defect in titanium:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;United_Airlines_Flight_232" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;United_Airlines_Flight_232</a><p>The accident wasn&#x27;t total only because of magnificent actions of the flight crew.
评论 #40683083 未加载
评论 #40685407 未加载
评论 #40683244 未加载
评论 #40687028 未加载
评论 #40686895 未加载
magicalhippo11 months ago
NASA had issues with falsified tests of aluminium not long ago[1], reportedly costing them $700 million in losses[2].<p>Though buying from a relatively little known Chinese vendor without thorough testing on your own seems a bit reckless.<p>[1]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.justice.gov&#x2F;opa&#x2F;pr&#x2F;aluminum-extrusion-manufacturer-agrees-pay-over-46-million-defrauding-customers-including" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.justice.gov&#x2F;opa&#x2F;pr&#x2F;aluminum-extrusion-manufactur...</a><p>[2]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.latimes.com&#x2F;business&#x2F;la-fi-nasa-metals-fraud-20190501-story.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.latimes.com&#x2F;business&#x2F;la-fi-nasa-metals-fraud-201...</a>
评论 #40687960 未加载
Retric11 months ago
Critically the material is still titanium. Some of the paperwork is counterfeit so there’s concerns around quality control etc not what it is.<p><i>&gt; Spirit is trying to determine where the titanium came from, whether it meets proper standards despite its phony documentation, and whether the parts made from the material are structurally sound enough to hold up through the projected life spans of the jets, company officials said. Spirit said it was trying to determine the most efficient way to remove and replace the affected parts if that ended up being necessary.</i>
评论 #40685169 未加载
评论 #40686431 未加载
neilv11 months ago
&gt; <i>Spirit is trying to determine where the titanium came from, whether it meets proper standards despite its phony documentation, and whether the parts made from the material are structurally sound enough to hold up through the projected life spans of the jets, company officials said. Spirit said it was trying to determine the most efficient way to remove and replace the affected parts if that ended up being necessary.</i><p>Why are they even considering keeping the counterfeit parts in?<p>Is the situation that Spirit AeroSystems believes the eventual answer will be that the aircraft can&#x27;t be used with known-counterfeit parts, but they&#x27;re dancing around liability or PR, or they don&#x27;t want to grandstand upon their customers&#x27; toes?
评论 #40683266 未加载
readthenotes111 months ago
A few decades ago:<p>I talked with a business man who said that the Chinese would absolutely perform to contract but no more. Early samples would be excellent, full production would be exactly and only what you asked for. Almost malicious compliance.<p>I talked with a Chinese salesperson who said they always signed contracts with foreigners using their English name. Such contracts are unenforceable. Almost malicious compliance.<p>It&#x27;s hard for me to have sympathy for complaining about people doing the least they can when you&#x27;re trying to pay the least you can.
评论 #40683020 未加载
评论 #40686286 未加载
lupusreal11 months ago
&gt; <i>Spirit Aerosystems, based in Wichita, Kansas, which raised the alarm on the titanium issue</i><p>Heh, they&#x27;re the good guys in this story apparently.
评论 #40683446 未加载
class3shock11 months ago
For anyone immediately going to UAF 232 as an example please realize that this is titanium used in the air frame not the engine. The engine is under dramatically higher loads and is far more material fault intolerant. I&#x27;m not saying this isn&#x27;t serious issue but this is not as severe a concern, otherwise the planes would be grounded already.
crazygringo11 months ago
I&#x27;m curious if anyone suspects which is the more likely justification for the forged paperwork --<p>-- is it most likely lower-quality or wrong-quality titanium being passed off in an effort to fraudulently save money?<p>-- or is it probably the real deal, but <i>stolen</i> from a warehouse somewhere and the certificate is fraudulent merely to conceal that it was stolen?
评论 #40686869 未加载
lazyeye11 months ago
Ive often wondered whether poor quality counterfeit parts are being inserted into the supply chain as a form of industrial sabotage by competitors (including nation-states).
评论 #40686270 未加载
评论 #40703778 未加载
BooneJS11 months ago
The FAA has their hands full investigating problems _after_ they become problems. Are airplanes in a race to the bottom or is there an opportunity to inject quality and reliability into this industry?
评论 #40684430 未加载
评论 #40684973 未加载
ajross11 months ago
The headline is spun. The text of the article doesn&#x27;t allege &quot;counterfeit titanium&quot;, only that the paperwork chain contains (according I guess to an audit done internally at Spirit) counterfeit <i>documents</i>. What that says about the metal itself is unknown. It seems more likely to me to be legitimate <i>but stolen</i> titanium than it does to be fake material.<p>It&#x27;s not really feasible to fake something like a raw metal. Nothing else looks like titanium, nothing has the weight properties, even things like smells are different between metals that come out of different processes and tarnish in different ways. Basically by the time you got something that wouldn&#x27;t be noticed by the assembly crews you&#x27;d have spent so much you might as well just have bought stolen titanium on the black market.
评论 #40684574 未加载
评论 #40684233 未加载
评论 #40685116 未加载
评论 #40683955 未加载
评论 #40684220 未加载
评论 #40684476 未加载
评论 #40684532 未加载
评论 #40684001 未加载
评论 #40683941 未加载
DannyBee11 months ago
&quot;The material, which was purchased from a little-known Chinese company, &quot;<p>Clearly they are ordering this stuff on aliexpress!
评论 #40684960 未加载
评论 #40680886 未加载
thriftwy11 months ago
Perhaps they came from a certain Republic of Crimea?<p>I&#x27;ve glanced the article but didn&#x27;t figure out the source.
评论 #40683755 未加载
Simulacra11 months ago
Do aviation parts have traceability? Like a serial number or qr code that can be used to identify suspect components?
评论 #40680321 未加载
评论 #40680402 未加载
JSDevOps11 months ago
How the fuck do you counterfeit titanium it’s one of those things that is either or it’s not.
评论 #40680105 未加载
评论 #40679835 未加载
评论 #40680797 未加载
评论 #40684637 未加载
评论 #40680263 未加载
评论 #40684243 未加载
评论 #40683068 未加载
评论 #40685778 未加载
评论 #40679779 未加载
评论 #40679776 未加载
评论 #40679825 未加载
评论 #40680152 未加载
bell-cot11 months ago
However much you can &quot;save&quot; by outsourcing...in a sufficiently fraud-plagued business environment, it&#x27;s seldom worth it longer-term.<p>Conveniently, modern businesses and their leaders are judged and rewarded purely on short-term metrics.
评论 #40679914 未加载
评论 #40680363 未加载
评论 #40680374 未加载
评论 #40684260 未加载
评论 #40682533 未加载
评论 #40681230 未加载
agomez31411 months ago
Archive link?
评论 #40680559 未加载
评论 #40687611 未加载
nimbius11 months ago
If at first your accountability fails, blame your suppliers.
ChrisArchitect11 months ago
[dupe]<p>Discussion: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=40679599">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=40679599</a>
exabrial11 months ago
&gt; Spirit added that “more than 1,000 tests have been completed to confirm the mechanical and metallurgical properties of the affected material to ensure continued airworthiness.”<p>So basically, has nothing to do with safety? Is this simply Uncle Sam is mad he couldn&#x27;t take a dip of the proceeds?
评论 #40684446 未加载
评论 #40684558 未加载
评论 #40708918 未加载
评论 #40684362 未加载
hehdhdjehehegwv11 months ago
It’s hard not to think this is just the FAA trying to protect Boeing again by making it look like Airbus is equally bad.<p>FAA should just be rehoused under department of commerce where the job is actually to promote and protect American business interests.<p>At least then we can admit we have no regulatory oversight of aviation safety. Let’s be honest as a country for once.
评论 #40684091 未加载