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Are animals conscious? New research

287 pointsby boto311 months ago

65 comments

lolinder11 months ago
&gt; Attributing consciousness to animals based on their responses was seen as a cardinal sin. The argument went that projecting human traits, feelings, and behaviours onto animals had no scientific basis and there was no way of testing what goes on in animals’ minds.<p>What&#x27;s always been funny to me about the scientific approach to animal consciousness&#x2F;emotions&#x2F;empathy is that in a perfectly rational world the default assumption would be that animals and humans exist along a spectrum and there isn&#x27;t a sharp cliff where humans are 100% conscious and empathetic but dogs are 0%. The claim that humans are categorically different than other animals is the extraordinary one, not the claim that we are made of mostly the same stuff.<p>The only reason why animal consciousness has been controversial historically is a religious one—the Bible has typically been read as placing humanity in a category of its own. And yet we see countless secular scientists clinging to that perspective when even a cursory glance at the evidence and a basic application of Occam&#x27;s razor would suggest the opposite.
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moi238811 months ago
I’ve never understood these questions. “Are animals conscious?”<p>Well, could you give me the definition of consciousness? No you can’t. So now you’re asking me both to define it and show if animals have it or not.<p>Are animals aware of their surroundings? Yes. Are animals showing the behavioural signs of pain when you hurt them? Yes. Can animals direct attention? Yes. Can animals remember? Yes. Can animals learn? Yes. Are animals self-aware? Some of them, some only sometimes, some not.<p>To think of consciousness as a dichotomy instead of a spectrum is baffling to me. As is thinking of consciousness as being a single, indivisible thing.
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jumploops11 months ago
I once witnessed a spider controlling a motion activated flood light to catch prey.<p>At first I assumed the flood light in my backyard was just being triggered by the wind, as a spider had built a web in front of the sensor, however I then noticed that the light would turn on even when there wasn’t any wind.<p>Upon closer inspection, I found that the spider had created a singular strand of webbing, thicker than the rest (5x-10x), directly over the front of the sensor.<p>It would then pluck this thicker strand whenever it wanted the light to turn on.<p>I had previously read a few papers on spider intelligence, specifically the planning capabilities of certain species, but this seemed like another level.<p>Not only had it discovered the sensor, it crafted a tool to use it for it’s own advantage.<p>Humans think they’re something forever unique and special in the evolutionary timeline, but the remembered words of our ancestors trick us into thinking individuals are larger than the herd.<p>Intelligence comes in many shapes and sizes, and claiming to be above the rest parallels, in my experience, the likes of a liar more so than a truth seeker.<p>What is consciousness? That which separates us from the animal kingdom. A lie we tell ourselves to sleep at night and die for false prophets.
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throwup23811 months ago
<i>&gt; We now know that bees can count, recognise human faces and learn how to use tools.</i><p>I was curious what that means in this context and found this research (co-authored by Prof Chittka mentioned in the article): <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;journals.plos.org&#x2F;plosbiology&#x2F;article?id=10.1371&#x2F;journal.pbio.1002564" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;journals.plos.org&#x2F;plosbiology&#x2F;article?id=10.1371&#x2F;jou...</a><p>Apparently only a small minority of bumble bees can figure out how to pull a string to access a reward, but then other bees adopt the behavior by mimicry. IMO I think we&#x27;re doomed to move the goalposts on intelligence for a while, like with the statistical abilities of LLMs to manipulate language and insects&#x27; ability to use tools. Moravec&#x27;s paradox keeps rearing it&#x27;s ugly head as more and more complex systems turn out to be relatively easy compared to basic cognition (the system that keeps them flying and identifies threats, flowers, etc.).<p>It&#x27;d take a lot more to convince me that bumble bees are conscious just because of the their brains&#x27; simplicity compared to humans or other animals that appear more intelligent like pigs, corvids, octopuses, etc. I&#x27;m not categorically against such a possibility, but I think the bar for recognizing intelligence in general has been set too low.<p>This sidesteps the main problem anyway: What is consciousness? I don&#x27;t think we&#x27;re any closer to rigorously defining that anymore than intelligence.
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dorongrinstein11 months ago
Do people not have dogs? They have more emotional intelligence than most humans and love, fear, play, plan, think, reason and communicate well. This is true for many animals. I&#x27;d say that most animals are just like human in terms of consciousness but less advanced in thinking and communicating (without debating about whales, dolphins, octopuses etc.)
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jraph11 months ago
It doesn&#x27;t take a genius to notice animals are conscious. Only to prove it and convince their human peers that this is the case. I guess.
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reso11 months ago
We need to ban the word &quot;conscious&quot; until people can agree on what it means.<p>That being said, its obvious to me that many animals have similar emotional complexity to humans, and many outperform humans on some cognitive tasks.<p>Humans have complex language, and that&#x27;s about it, to separate us from other animals.
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poikroequ11 months ago
The trouble I have with much of this discussion is it assumes many traits of animal behavior are indicative of consciousness. Bees play with balls, therefore consciousness? You can&#x27;t just jump straight to that conclusion. There is so much our brains do that is subconscious, that we are not aware of. Heck, even signs of self awareness may not be indicative of consciousness. Arguably we are at the point that we could train a robot AI to recognize itself in the mirror.<p>I&#x27;m in the camp that believes animals are conscious, I&#x27;m not arguing against that. But what I&#x27;m arguing is that the current body of evidence doesn&#x27;t conclude anything. Until we have a better fundamental understanding of consciousness, I don&#x27;t think we can make such conclusions merely from observing animal behavior. Who&#x27;s to say that one behavior is evidence of consciousness and another behavior is not? What do we base that upon?
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jsz011 months ago
Here&#x27;s one of the most simple practical examples that proves to me cats are conscious. When my cat sleeps in my bed occasionally I accidetanlly kick or bump into her in the dark. Instead of fleeing, hissing or attacking me she lets out a very unique earnest meow that clearly means &#x27;hey I&#x27;m here&#x27; and she goes back to sleep like nothing happened. She clearly understands my motivation wasn&#x27;t to harm her. She clearly understands we share a common motivation of sleeping in the comfy bed. She clearly understands a concept of the future where she lets me know her position and expects me not to accidentally bother her again. If I continue to bother he she will simply get up and move just far enough away to avoid further trouble.
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lxgr11 months ago
&gt; An early effort came in the 17th century, by the French philosopher René Descartes who said: &quot;I think therefore I am.&quot; He added that &quot;language is the only certain sign of thought hidden in a body&quot;.<p>That line of reasoning is exactly how some people can consider LLMs conscious, yet seriously doubt whether any animals are.
salesynerd11 months ago
I sometimes think that animistic belief - objects, places, and creatures all possess a distinct spiritual essence - is more respectful of the ecosystem than some of the modern ones. Lots of ancient cultures, across the globe, tried to live in harmony with their natural environments. I wish that we can go back to that stage.
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ilaksh11 months ago
This doesn&#x27;t add up to me. The majority of scientists really thought that animals didn&#x27;t feel or experience things? That can&#x27;t be true for scientists that actually observed animals.<p>I can see how there might some type of conflict with a dualist or religious view of the soul though. But not a scientific conflict.
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self_awareness11 months ago
Once I had a dog and I watched him as he slept. One minute, he suddenly started moving the tips of his paws as if he were running somewhere. A moment later, he began to move his jaw as if he started to eat something. Right after that, a bit more paw movement, and he began to smack his tongue as if he were drinking something. Then again, he started moving his paws as if he ran off somewhere. So: he ran to the bowl of food, ate, went over to the bowl of water, drank some water, and ran off again. A little while later, he woke up. That’s when I invited him to eat. Since that time, I have never doubted either that animals have some kind of consciousness or that animals can dream.
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elicksaur11 months ago
Regardless of whether you agree with the proposition, this seems to be the conclusion society is trending toward.<p>Personally, I fear that instead of treating animals and machines more like humans, we will end up treating humans more like we currently treat animals and machines.
NayamAmarshe11 months ago
Modern science is so clueless that it&#x27;s now trying to answer metaphysical questions with physical processes. What&#x27;s next? Using empiricism to negate the concept of justice since none of us are the same in any shape or form?
luxuryballs11 months ago
Does this mean self-awareness? I feel like this topic is sometimes mincing words, why would an animal not be conscious?<p>My computer knows exactly how much free memory it has, which is more than I know about my own capacity… why is it not considered conscious? Isn’t this ultimately all just inputs, outputs, and the ability to keep record of things changing over time?
knallfrosch11 months ago
I&#x27;m not even sure you other guys are conscious. Let&#x27;s test it with some electric shocks.
jarjoura11 months ago
Research also suggests that we only domesticated ourselves 40-50k years ago. Language and culture are fairly recent additions in our evolution and so when people start comparing how we understand the world, to that of other mammals, I struggle to find it fair.<p>I do try hard not to anthropomorphize my dog, but the little dude is very clever, and I just can&#x27;t help but consider him conscious on some level. Him and I definitely have a way of communicating with each other without using sentences, so I know he&#x27;s self-aware far more than I would have given dogs credit before he came into my life.
librasteve11 months ago
the article illustrates the low level of achievement in cognitive science (particularly in the light of the investment being poured into so called AGI &#x2F; FSD right now) … we clearly need a scientific definition of consciousness that can capture what (birds(cats(dogs(humans)))) have in common and the incremental distinctions … literacy, spoken language, non verbal modelling, predictive ability, causation&#x2F;reasoning, dimensions (physical, emotional), pain, emotions, empathy, initiation and so on. with a research framework that can hypothesize and test the neuronal services and mapping.
kbrkbr11 months ago
Speaking about this topic is already hard. It&#x27;s not like the words needed can be learned in observing the world. There is a lot of reflection going on to sharpen their meaning to the nuance that&#x27;s needed for serious discussion.<p>Conscious, self-aware, sentient, thinking, to name just a few, mean quite different things - not only in themselves, but also per philosophical school of thinking their connections and subdivisions are different.<p>Plenty of room for misunderstanding...<p>I think it was Augustinus who said about time &quot;when no one asks me I know what it means&quot;. And then went on a journey to try to understand what it is that he knows.
klyrs11 months ago
&gt; Prof Chittka’s experiments showed that bees ... seemed to be able to play, rolling small wooden balls, which he says they appeared to enjoy as an activity.<p>But can they understand the offside rule?
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mathgradthrow11 months ago
Based on the standard definition of consciousness, no one is conscious but me.
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animanoir11 months ago
Are animals conscious. Yes.
matt-attack11 months ago
Funny that we struggle determining if animals are conscious - when I think a deeper question is in front of us: is anyone BUT YOU conscious? Science isn’t usually settled simply by taking people’s word for something. And yet the ONLY creature on this planet I can ever truly know is conscious is ME.<p>You might tell me you are and I might sort of assume you are since you’re the “same model” - but really, I have no way of knowing you’re experiencing subjectivity the same way I am. Let’s start with our fellow humans before we got onto sperm whales.
swader99911 months ago
Can they think about the future, are they aware of their mortality? The degree we do seems to fundamentally set us apart.
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utkarsh85811 months ago
In Indian culture, various species were regarded as being on a certain place in a spectrum of consciousness. Vedic literatures regarded even plants as beings who can have feelings. From zero (a rock) to almost 100% (a human) differentiation of species was primarily based on level of consciousness (bodily features as another factor, ofcourse) and interestingly, according to philosophy, selection of a specific species depended on a living entities &#x27;karma&#x27;, one gets a body with a certain level of consciousness according to the &#x27;good&#x27; or &#x27;bad&#x27; deeds one does in ones life.
SpaceFarmer11 months ago
I&#x27;ve always had trouble with people&#x27;s definition of consciousness. What is amazing to me is that I&#x27;ve lived my whole life, from the perspective of this one seemingly random guy. I can&#x27;t prove anyone or anything else is consciousness, but I know &quot;I&#x27;m in here&quot; so to speak. As amazing and complex as the configuration of atoms in the human brain is, it doesn&#x27;t even begin to explain to me how &quot;I&quot; ended up perceiving reality from this one object in particular. Or even explain what &quot;I&quot; am.
1970-01-0111 months ago
Isn&#x27;t the real question how to rank this level? Is an elephant smarter than a dog? Does that mean it feels more emotions?! Is a cat smarter than an octopus? Does that mean it knows how to better manage time?
ajuc11 months ago
Obviously they are. If consciousness even means anything.<p>They have theory of mind: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=saRsq9pe9Hc" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=saRsq9pe9Hc</a>
blackhaj711 months ago
I am shocked there is debate on this topic. I feel like you can’t have spent much time with animals if you don’t think that at least some animals have consciousness
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QuantumGood11 months ago
Are humans conscious? I have learned to note when they are not, when they are talking and unaware of their surroundings, and stand next to them and say to others &quot;They&#x27;re not conscious right now, they can&#x27;t hear what I&#x27;m saying&quot;. You would think this would be incredibly rare, but it&#x27;s more common than I ever expected. Awareness of surroundings does not equal consciousness, but &quot;consciousness&quot; measures can can assume things that are not always true.
mbfg11 months ago
I can&#x27;t say this is backed by anything, i don&#x27;t know, but my gut feel is humans are somewhat different in that they have developed language both spoken and written to such an extent, that now there is a constant journaller as part of most people&#x27;s minds documented everything we do, feel, think. This journaller basically happens autonomously, without direction. This journalling mechanism, i think, is what most people consider consciousness.<p>I suspect we fool ourselves into thinking this journaller has any control over our situation and so we give it more value than it has. I don&#x27;t see how it would give us free will, for instance. But it is a powerful illusion, none the less.<p>I&#x27;ve had lots of dogs, horses, cats, and think they all are on the consciousness spectrum, but i&#x27;m guessing (couldn&#x27;t possibly know) that they lack this constant overarching journaller in their brains. For species that have a richer communication, i still don&#x27;t think they would have this... I think the need to write down language, and make it available to others asynchronously plays a part in it.<p>Interestingly, some people report that they have no such journaller, or sometimes called inner voice that talks to them. I have no way to know what it&#x27;s like to be them, or if my understanding of what they are saying is indeed what they are saying, but if true, i wonder if these folks are more like what other animals feel in their heads. I have no clue. Frankly, i can&#x27;t imagine that someone wouldn&#x27;t have a journaller in their heads, and so it&#x27;s even hard for me to imagine. I assume i just don&#x27;t understand.
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nullstyle11 months ago
For those of you who think we have crappy definitions for things like Intelligence, Consciousness, Sentience, or even just Existence, I invite you to ponder Joscha Bach&#x27;s thoughts on these subjects: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;cs9Ls0m5QVE?si=E2TKfnuV8tXo4J_3" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;cs9Ls0m5QVE?si=E2TKfnuV8tXo4J_3</a>
guilhas11 months ago
Should we stop eating chicken, fish, and other small animals, in favour of bigger ones like cow? That would reduce farm animal suffering by more than 80%<p>What about the meat alternative insects? Are they conscious? If so there are people investing millions. to kill gazillion lives a year<p>Or are they definitely &quot;inferior&quot;?<p>Do we even know what suffering and consciousness is?<p>Why did nature evolved for animals to eat each other?
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senordevnyc11 months ago
How is it that neither the article nor anyone here has mentioned the seminal paper by Nagel, &quot;What Is It Like to Be a Bat?&quot;<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;What_Is_It_Like_to_Be_a_Bat%3F" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;What_Is_It_Like_to_Be_a_Bat%3F</a>
cf100clunk11 months ago
Humans have been thinking for millenia about animal consciousness and how to ethically treat other beings. To wit, the Jain principle describing animal consciousness:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Ahimsa_in_Jainism#Overview" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Ahimsa_in_Jainism#Overview</a>
jerrygoyal11 months ago
consciousness is a spectrum. Humans are more conscious than animals.
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johnwheeler11 months ago
Unquestionably. No study required.
0x20cowboy11 months ago
Maybe if we made LLMs out of steak people would stop thinking they were conscious.
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abeppu11 months ago
What Ghosh chose to include and not include in this leaves some really weird gaps. He mentions Descartes, and the &quot;cogito&quot;, but quotes Seth in attributing to Descartes an &quot;unholy trinity, of language, intelligence and consciousness&quot;, and then links that &quot;trinity&quot; to behaviorism.<p>This would make one think that until &quot;recently&quot;, most scientists were in the same boat as Descartes, but I think this is really misleading. Descartes believed that mental stuff and physical stuff were categorically different (&quot;cartesian dualism&quot;), whereas almost all scientists would subscribe to some form of monism &#x2F; physicalism. But the reason for the cogito, which has persisted until at least &quot;recently&quot; is that subjective phenomena are intrinsically not accessible for objective observation. At best, we can capture the &quot;correlates&quot; of consciousness, whether those be behaviors, fMRI BOLD signals, EEG readings, etc, none of which directly shows that there&#x27;s an inner subjective experience. There&#x27;s still <i>maybe</i> the possibility of a philosophical zombie, who has the right objectively available signals but doesn&#x27;t have any internal experience.<p>But scientists have all the while been working under the operational assumption that animals have something like our experiences. When we study aggression or stress or motivation or whatever else in animal models, and draw parallels between the brains of mice or monkeys and humans, we&#x27;re assuming that their emotional states feel at least somewhat like ours do. A classic protocol for rodents, relevant in testing anti-depressants (where the whole point is to change some aspect of our subjective experience) is the &quot;forced swim&quot;, where you drop a mouse in water in a vessel with smooth vertical sides, and time how long it takes for them to stop struggling. This is taken to be a measure of &quot;despair&quot;. If scientists decades ago didn&#x27;t believe animals experienced anything, they wouldn&#x27;t do this research.<p>Descartes&#x27; &quot;I think therefore I am&quot; was the minimal statement he could make with absolute certainty -- but we all operate with at least a smidge less solipsism if we assume that other humans are conscious. And it&#x27;s of course only a small extension to guess that other primates, who have rich social relations and brains similar to ours have a lot of overlapping experiences. And that other mammals, like rodents, who have a bunch of stuff in their brains like ours, have overlapping experiences. And then suddenly you&#x27;re open to this landscape of different kinds of creates with different kinds of mental experiences.
formvoltron11 months ago
given that we don&#x27;t remember what happened before our lives, and most likely when we die we enter a similar state... so that life starts whenever a physical life begins (later a mental life starts and exists until the time that physical life dies)... Then the idea that all creatures are conscious is a pretty bad idea. It means that being a conscious being such as a human is ridiculously improbable, given the very high ratio of all conscious creatures count vs human count.
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kazinator11 months ago
Suppose a dog is unconscious. For what purpose does it sleep and what is the difference between its sleeping and waking state? And between those and human sleeping and waking states?
swader99911 months ago
As soon as we ate the forbidden fruit we became self aware, aware we were naked, aware we were vulnerable and mortal. We learned about the future and that we could sacrifice things now to perhaps make it better. So we work, we pass on more than instinct with language to our children. Read of the transformation that Helen Keller went through once she learned language, many similarities to this biblical narrative. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;scentofdawn.blogspot.com&#x2F;2011&#x2F;07&#x2F;before-soul-dawn-helen-keller-on-her.html?m=1" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;scentofdawn.blogspot.com&#x2F;2011&#x2F;07&#x2F;before-soul-dawn-he...</a>
pjs_11 months ago
One day we may even prove that BBC journalists are conscious
banish-m411 months ago
The most anthropocentric thing I&#x27;ve read all year.
m3kw911 months ago
Consciousness is a spectrum, it’s the best bet because there are too many biological similarities the difference being the amount of intelligence
Hoasi11 months ago
It seems unfortunate that they inflicted pain and negative experiences on animals to prove common knowledge.
ShuffleBoard11 months ago
First of all it&#x27;s crawfish not crayfish. Second of all that&#x27;s a hermit crab not a crawfish.
booleandilemma11 months ago
Anyone who has had a pet knows they&#x27;re conscious. Of course they&#x27;re conscious.
imposter11 months ago
Next up, are LLMs conscious?
zzo38computer11 months ago
I think animals do have consciousness, and I had thought that many times in the past. However, it is also necessary to define &quot;consciousness&quot;. (Even this article admits that, though.)<p>About placing humanity (or something else) in a category of its own, that depends on how the categorization is made, and it could be done in any way, so such a categorization of humanity does not really help, and can be deceptive to think it is the only one or the best one.<p>I also think that &quot;intelligence&quot; would not be simply defined by higher vs lower; it is more complicated because of different kind of intelligence and more subclassifications of those too, and then there is the difference of e.g. speed vs knowledge vs etc. There is a sense to identify the intelligence of kind of animals (and of the same kind of animals, e.g. human), but if you merely say it is higher or lower then it is imprecise.<p>This article also mentions colours, such as red colours. (And other things that you can also feel.) But, not all kind of animal can see all of the colours; some can see some colours that humans does not see but also does not see some that humans does see. Humans can see three colours, but some animals might see four colours. (And, some people also are partially or fully colour blind.)<p>I had also read in a book once, they said, they are sure that insects have feelings but is not sure about emotions. Well, my guess is probably they do; but, it would be a mistake to think that having emotion would necessarily mean that it is like humans emotions; it can be difference.<p>Nevertheless, many things that people have said are only for humans and are not what other kind of animals are. In many cases, I think they are wrong (and may even apply for some kind of plants, etc); &quot;conscious&quot; is not the only thing. However, there are also differences (including differences in the details of the things that actually are similar in many ways); and probably some of the differences have been missed as much as many of the similarities have been missed. (There are also differences between individuals, but that is a different thing.)<p>&gt; And this is important because we need to set rules to protect them either in the lab or in the wild.<p>You do not need to know exactly how those animals will feel to justify avoiding treating animals badly.<p>Differences of different kind of animals does not justify to treat them badly.<p>But, it is good that scientists are actually finally figuring out this stuff scientifically, now. Although I and others had said such things before, that is not the same as doing it scientifically; so now that it can be done scientifically, it will be understood better scientifically, too.
nprateem11 months ago
The philosophical zombie idea needs to be put to bed. Instead we should be thinking on the balance of probabilities instead. This is far more pragmatic.<p>We can&#x27;t know anything for certain, and the zombie idea is a convenient stonewall that allows us to ignore the behavioural evidence and continue to abuse animals as a society (mainly by killing them).
ribcage11 months ago
Humans are animals, not plants or mushrooms.
kull11 months ago
Super interesting topic. Long and boring article.
squigz11 months ago
What&#x27;s with the title on this post?
aspyct11 months ago
Sorry, why is this even a research? It&#x27;s uh... pretty obvious they are conscious.
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tomcam11 months ago
Anyone who&#x27;s met my stupid stupid chickens would appreciate that the stupid stupid chickens can totally manipulate us by making pathetic sounds when we know we are near, so they can get treats. Pre-chicken it was obvious to me that dogs, dolphins, higher primates, etc. were conscious. But stupid stupid chickens? Yes, stupid stupid chickens, it turns out. I love them despite the fact that they are ruthlessly committed to training me.<p>All which is to say that objectively and scientifically speaking they are obviously conscious although stupid.
bvan11 months ago
Of course they are.
workingdog11 months ago
If they weren&#x27;t conscious, then their love for us would be meaningless.
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doodpants11 months ago
&quot;But his ideas that animals are conscious in the same way humans are have long been shunned.&quot;<p>...except by every single dog or cat owner ever.<p>Seriously, I&#x27;ve never understood how anyone could interact with or observe animals for any length of time and <i>not</i> perceive obvious signs of conciousness.
dboreham11 months ago
WTF? Who said animals aren&#x27;t conscious?<p>Edit: reading below, the answer appears to be: God.
jschveibinz11 months ago
92 Billion animals are killed each year for food.[1] That doesn&#x27;t include the 110 million that are killed each year for science. [2]<p>These animals must not be conscious, or we would never do such a thing, right?<p>Oh, and we keep over a billion pets in our homes and call them our friends. But they can&#x27;t be conscious.<p>The science must be flawed. &#x2F;s<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.humanesociety.org&#x2F;blog&#x2F;more-animals-ever-922-billion-are-used-and-killed-each-year-food" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.humanesociety.org&#x2F;blog&#x2F;more-animals-ever-922-bil...</a><p>[2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;spsp.org&#x2F;news-center&#x2F;character-context-blog&#x2F;killing-animal-name-science" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;spsp.org&#x2F;news-center&#x2F;character-context-blog&#x2F;killing-...</a><p>[3]
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__lbracket__11 months ago
No, animals arent conscious. Kill them indiscriminately and brutally. Happy Bakrid everyone !
cupcakecommons11 months ago
Humans that are blackout drunk are emotional but non-conscious. They can carry on full conversations without a sense of being. Basically every animal exists in this state continuously. It&#x27;s why human behavior is vastly different from animal behavior. Self-referential consciousness is as much of a curse as it is a blessing. It&#x27;s spoken about in this way by basically every human religion for a reason. This article is misses the mark entirely. This kind of sloppy thinking about consciousness exists in part because it&#x27;s incentivized by fiat economics that require replacing economization-resistant traditional human food staples (like meat) - with less expensive alternatives to hide economic mismanagement.
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erelong11 months ago
I think this ultimately becomes a religious discussion; even the article (wrongly in our view) calls Darwin &quot;god-like&quot; and suggests that belief in animals having consciousness is &quot;heresy&quot; (this perhaps borders on theological error, rather than heresy?)<p>It is a long-standing religious belief that animals do not possess a rational immortal soul and neither do they possess the ability to choose good or evil but are instead governed by instinct, which is why we don&#x27;t put animals on trial for crimes as it is presumed they have no consciousness of what is right and wrong like humans do<p>It might be worth reviewing many of the characteristics unique to humans to by way of contrast appreciate how different humans are from other creatures<p>Animals lack the &quot;moral consciousness&quot; and dignity that is unique to humans which is why most people are comfortable even killing animals and eating them as food, while &quot;cannibalism&quot; is thought to be a barbaric immoral practice contrary to unique human dignity<p>Articles like these in our view are being pushed possibly to degrade humans to the level of animals so as to justify animal-like immoral behavior
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