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The economics of the Birkin handbag

190 pointsby wallflower11 months ago

32 comments

tromp11 months ago
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;wwZ1k" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;wwZ1k</a>
michael_vo11 months ago
I went to a buy.<p>Hermes gives you 24 hours to go into the store and buy the item. Otherwise the bag goes to the next buyer on the rolodex.<p>Buyers call their friends and make it into an event. They’re literally giddy and excited to go. It’s like winning the lottery.<p>You’re ushered into a private room with nice couches, mirrors, a phone. You choose a scarf and wrap the scarf around the strap.<p>Buyers text their sales rep almost daily.<p>In a way it’s like a drop in the NFT space.
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cletus11 months ago
I find these systems fascinating. Hermes does make high-quality bags but really where they shine is in marketing.<p>You see a similar thing play out in the mechanical watch world. Rolex is the master of marketing. They make a good product, make no mistake, but they don&#x27;t over-produce models, still have scarcity despite selling millions of watches a year and have a limited inventory so Rolexes have the strongest secondary market.<p>Compare this to Omega who simply produce too many watches and too many watch variants such that you just don&#x27;t have the strong secondary market that Rolex has. This is despite Omega producing in some cases a better product in utility purposes (eg Planet Ocean vs Deepsea Sea-Dweller).<p>But there&#x27;s a dirty little secret with all these brands, including Hermes. As much as they say it&#x27;s about spend ratios and the like, ultimately it comes down to whether or not they <i>like</i> you. If, as a woman, you&#x27;re attractive, stylish and likely to be seen with their products (eg red carpet events) you will have WAY more offered to you than your spend ratio might otherwise warrant.
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virtualritz11 months ago
If you&#x27;re interested in the craft&#x2F;quality that goes into these products (or frequently doesn&#x27;t), &quot;Tanner Leatherstein&quot;&#x27;s YT channel is a suggested watch.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;@tanner.leatherstein" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;@tanner.leatherstein</a><p>He dissects luxury leather products.<p>Tanner has two recent videos on Hermès that seem related enough to mention here:<p>What does Hermès actually sell? A closer look into astronomical price tags of the luxury legend.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=D_f0jFs22Ts" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=D_f0jFs22Ts</a><p>Discover the real value of Hermès: Unraveling the mystery behind luxury prices.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=6fkzpyHJ77g" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=6fkzpyHJ77g</a>
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BJones1211 months ago
&gt; A Birkin bought at auction in 2010 would sell for around 50% more today... Hermès’s own stock has been a much smarter investment than the Birkin, rising more than 20-fold since 2010.<p>The more time goes on the more I think a good rule would be &quot;however much I spend at the company, spend on the company (in shares)&quot;. I look at my Spotify sub, my MSFT sub, and an Apple IIgs sitting in a box and wonder &#x27;what if&#x27;.
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jamesralph855511 months ago
This model is not unique to Hermes. Watch and car brands work the same way. Early on in these markets, you can get one of the desirable items without spending too much on undesirable items.<p>Some examples:<p>Rolex - stainless steel models are desirable and appreciate, gold models go for below msrp<p>Porche - Bucking the trend a bit, Porche gives you the option of paying an additional dealer markup rather than making you buy a Macan to get a GT3 RS.<p>Over time, this arbitrage goes to equilibrium and resellers can’t make money. It is relatively easy to get into this market so naturally it gets flooded. Profit goes to 0. Resellers also carry a risk that the item loses market value while they hold it. The only real winner here is the brand.
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gadders11 months ago
RIP &quot;Rep Ladies&quot; on Reddit, where there was a whole community talking about buying &quot;replicas&quot; (very high quality fakes) from China.<p>Bag purchasing aside, the whole community had a very specific and enjoyable vibe to it. It was like every poster was Charlotte from Sex and the City.<p>The Reddit was killed by this article: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.thecut.com&#x2F;2022&#x2F;04&#x2F;repladies-fake-luxury-bags.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.thecut.com&#x2F;2022&#x2F;04&#x2F;repladies-fake-luxury-bags.ht...</a>
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farceSpherule11 months ago
The Birkin bag is nothing but overpriced hype. De Beers operates in the same manner, creating fake demand and spending tremendous sums on marketing to make you think that diamonds are &quot;rare&quot; when in fact they are not.<p>These bags are made by Chinese immigrants, not by Parisian or Italian &quot;artisans.&quot; How do you think the Chinese counterfeiters are able to reproduce exact replicas that are indistinguishable to the naked eye?<p>Hermes and De Beers get the last laugh because they know that women are so desperate to appear wealthy that these products sell themselves to these low self-esteem trollops.
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aragonite11 months ago
Also, a classic:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.styleforum.net&#x2F;threads&#x2F;mafoofan-struggles-to-buy-breast-wallet-at-hermes-arises-victorious.215158&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.styleforum.net&#x2F;threads&#x2F;mafoofan-struggles-to-buy...</a>
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The28thDuck11 months ago
I find the habits of the very wealthy fascinating. What incentivizes your behavior when you have own all the traditional incentives?
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fallinditch11 months ago
Status symbol - a weird concept to me. Exhibiting status symbols has various social, psychological, cultural and economic uses and meanings, but it seems to me that they often reflect the existence of a kind of deficiency.
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osks11 months ago
I really enjoyed the Aquired episode on Hermès. Not my type of brand, but interesting.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.acquired.fm&#x2F;episodes&#x2F;hermes" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.acquired.fm&#x2F;episodes&#x2F;hermes</a>
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hristov11 months ago
It is funny how there are so many articles purporting to explain the economics of a Birkin handbag, without actually explaining it. Here it is, I will actually and finally explain the economics of a Birkin handbag.<p>It is all about convincing the buyer to consider a consumer good to be an investment. People treat consumer goods and investments very differently mentally and rightfully so. A consumer good is something you use for you own enjoyment or necessity. An investment is something that is supposed to pay you back more in the future. You do not get to use or enjoy the stocks and treasuries in your investment account. But you do hope that they will bring you more money in the future.<p>So what if consumer good can also be an investment? It seems like a great deal. First of all you get to enjoy it. If you are woman (or a man that likes to wear handbags, I guess) you can walk around with your Birkin bag and show it off while it appreciates.<p>Stocks and bonds are the often recommended investments, but you need a large and complex political system to ensure your stocks and bonds are worth the money. They are after all just pieces of paper (and nowadays you usually do not even get to hold the paper yourself), but to get these pieces of paper to convert to ownership rights of large enterprises you need, as I said a large and complex political and legal system.<p>A Birkin bag on the other hand, is something you can keep close to you. In your closet.<p>So the sales potential of something that is both a consumer good and an investment is great. Hermes saw this potential and decided to make the Birkin that thing.<p>If the Birkin can be sold for more in the secondary market than what it sells for in store, it becomes an investment all of a sudden. And then you get all kinds of new demand. So Hermes made that happen by good marketing and (probably) by buying out Birkins in the secondary market.<p>But that is also a very unstable situation. If you can just buy a Birkin in a store and then turn around and sell it immediately for a profit, everyone would do that and the secondary market price would collapse. And that is where the exclusivity comes in. The plan for Hermes is that they would only sell Birkins to rich people that do not need to resell their bags in the secondary market even if there is a profit. Thus, the ideal client is a woman that feels good that her Birkin investment is appreciating in value but has absolutely no desire to sell it because she does not need the money and she loves her bag. She just likes to consider how much money she is making in her mental profit and loss statement by keeping her bag, while continuing to wear and use it.<p>So that is why sales of new Birkins are so restricted and are based on a personal relationship between a salesperson and a client. The salesperson judges the client on whether they are the type of client that will turn around and flip the bag. And meanwhile the company, Hermes, judges the salesperson on whether they can keep their clients in check.<p>Of course some bags get flipped, and that is necessary to keep a resale market going, and thus to keep up the evidence of higher resale values. But it is important to keep the flips to a very small number.<p>It is a very clever system, but it was not invented by Hermes. It has been tried before with art, fine wine and ferraris. And for those of you that might think that the Birkin madness is somehow related to women&#x27;s lack of financial sense, keep in mind that Ferrari was doing the same thing with limited addition Ferraris marketed mostly to men long before Hermes hit upon their Birkin scam.<p>The problem, from the point of view of the consumer, is that it is a very unstable system. It seems great and safe to have your investment in your closet, but keep in mind that the value of that investment is being kept alive by Hermes doing hard work and spending a lot of money to keep up the secondary market for Birkins. If Hermes changes strategy or some new CEO makes some mistake, then the value of your Birkin will disappear in a second and you will have no legal recourse. If the fashion changes, the value of your bag may plummet even if Hermes does their very best to do everything right. Etc.<p>So my recommendation for someone considering a Birkin or another consumer good&#x2F;investment combo is to stick to actual investments for investing and to actual consumer goods for consuming. An asset that produces value (such as stock in a good company) is a naturally appreciating investment (as it produces value) and it does not need to have some kind alternative reality created around it by a corporation in order to appreciate.<p>Of course one has also to make sure he&#x2F;she is a good citizen and exercises their responsibilities to keeping up their nation as a stable democracy with a stable well functioning legal system and well established property rights.
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medion11 months ago
I’m glad the author pointed out rock bottom interest rates - basically free money has created a nightmare and we are in the adjustment period now - curious to see how the luxury sector goes.
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eadmund11 months ago
Has Hermès trademarked the design? I would love to get my wife an homage Birkin, but every time I google for such a thing I don’t really find anything. The only thing that makes sense is that they aggressively shut down every competing maker — or just that my google-fu is lacking.<p>There’s no way that she would be happy with tens of thousands for a purse, but if I could find one with the look and utility for a few hundred then I think she’d be delighted.
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mankypro11 months ago
A fool and his money are quickly separated.
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anitil11 months ago
There was an interesting planet money episode on Birkin Bags from 2015, I recommend a listen (or a read)<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.npr.org&#x2F;transcripts&#x2F;460870534" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.npr.org&#x2F;transcripts&#x2F;460870534</a>
motohagiography11 months ago
closely related, just a few days ago I got a quote for a pair of boots that after taxes and duty would have worked out to about $12,000 and an 8-month wait not including travel costs to be there for a fitting. I&#x27;m passing on them for every conceivable reason, but it raised the question of why buy them at all. tbh, I didn&#x27;t know how much they cost, and I just like them because the maker has figured in stories I&#x27;ve liked for years and there&#x27;s a kind of actualization to making them part of mine. nobody would ever know as there&#x27;s no brand or way to tell, it was a personal interest.<p>however, the &quot;economics&quot; of those boots or a handbag are closer to poor-coded aftermarket car accessories, in that they&#x27;re more of an indicator of economic conditions. You&#x27;ve made good money but it&#x27;s not life circumstance changing money. It&#x27;s not actually wasted or surplus, it&#x27;s just not enough to change anything, so you spend it. whether it&#x27;s at Hermés or spinny chrome rims, the underlying belief is that below a certain capital threshold signalling is a better strategic bet than marginal savings. it&#x27;s a bet against future purchasing power of cash, but also a bet on personal growth.<p>And that&#x27;s how you talk yourself into buying stuff like that.
fsckboy11 months ago
no matter where you are on the political spectrum, you might enjoy &quot;splitting&quot; the animated gif <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;images.wsj.net&#x2F;im-972116&#x2F;?width=1278&amp;size=1" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;images.wsj.net&#x2F;im-972116&#x2F;?width=1278&amp;size=1</a> into its component still-images.<p>The credited artist, Eric Helgas, is quoted as saying &quot;My work focuses a lot on iconic imagery and challenges the viewer’s perception of the objects I choose to photograph.&quot; <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;lvl3official.com&#x2F;artist-of-the-week-eric-helgas&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;lvl3official.com&#x2F;artist-of-the-week-eric-helgas&#x2F;</a><p>Well Eric, I don&#x27;t feel challenged by this work. I guess you thought that I thought that stevedores, people with dirty fingernails, thick black hair on their arms, a preponderance of upper body fat characteristic of males, etc. would not carry Birkins. HA! jokes on you! Any body can carry a Birkin, and we might expect anybody who is afraid their femininity might be questioned to make sure to carry such an iconic handbag, so I&#x27;m sure all you&#x27;ve done is take a random sample. Where&#x27;s the challenge?
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knallfrosch11 months ago
See also:<p>Inside the Delirious Rise of ‘Superfake’ Handbags<p>Can you tell the difference between a $10,000 Chanel bag and a $200 knockoff? Almost nobody can, and it’s turning luxury fashion upside down. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;2023&#x2F;05&#x2F;04&#x2F;magazine&#x2F;celine-chanel-gucci-superfake-handbags.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;2023&#x2F;05&#x2F;04&#x2F;magazine&#x2F;celine-chanel-gu...</a><p>An economist’s guide to the luxury-handbag market It is plagued by counterfeits—and information asymmetries <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.economist.com&#x2F;finance-and-economics&#x2F;2024&#x2F;03&#x2F;07&#x2F;an-economists-guide-to-the-luxury-handbag-market" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.economist.com&#x2F;finance-and-economics&#x2F;2024&#x2F;03&#x2F;07&#x2F;a...</a>
nojvek11 months ago
With the rise of US economy and further wealth disparity, signaling &quot;wealth&quot; is a real thing.<p>We humans aren&#x27;t that different from other animals that &quot;peacock&quot; to advertise their social status.<p>Interesting how certain brands are able to capitalize on the exclusivity of high end of fashion over the innate need to signal.<p>The problems of ultra rich are very different yet so similar to the poor. Humans gonna human.
causality011 months ago
I wonder if there&#x27;s a long German word for &quot;I&#x27;d be mad at these people for selling something so worthless for so much money, except the act of buying it makes you stupid enough to deserve wasting your money on it, so there aren&#x27;t any real victims&quot;
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vitorsr11 months ago
Related:<p>The secret economics of the Birkin bag (2016) (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.economist.com&#x2F;1843&#x2F;2016&#x2F;07&#x2F;28&#x2F;the-secret-economics-of-the-birkin-bag" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.economist.com&#x2F;1843&#x2F;2016&#x2F;07&#x2F;28&#x2F;the-secret-economi...</a>)
dredmorbius11 months ago
Thorstein Veblen, <i>Theory of the Leisure Class</i> (1899): &lt;<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.org&#x2F;details&#x2F;theoryofleisurec0000thor_p4x3" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.org&#x2F;details&#x2F;theoryofleisurec0000thor_p4x3</a>&gt;
maxglute11 months ago
Bliss Foster, fashion youtuber has a great video on Hermes<p>@11 minutes about why Hermes is peak of luxury even compared to other houses<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=3F7Exfsto6Y" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=3F7Exfsto6Y</a><p>But entire video is a fun watch.
ianpurton11 months ago
The economics of purchasing new are fairly simple, you walk out of the store with something worth more than you paid for it.<p>The people in the secondary market take all the risk by paying an inflated price that may go down and the risk of fakes.<p>It reminds me of the Rolex market.
jemmyw11 months ago
I don&#x27;t really get it. I thought oh yeah I guess I buy expensive for my income so why not. But if I want a bag I research to try and find the best one for me, not for prestige. Same with every item. I guess people buy fancy watches and jewellery, and that&#x27;s fine, but what I can&#x27;t imagine is having all that money, meaning you have freedom to do pretty much whatever you like, and spending that freedom hanging around a posh clothes store frivolously buying shit in order to ingratiate yourself to buy a bag.
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patchtopic11 months ago
I prefer me a excellent condition pre-loved Crumpler bag from ebay :-)<p>almost zero prestige so reasonable prices
graycat11 months ago
&gt; The economics of the Birkin handbag<p>He&#x27;s very rich and she is VERY pretty!
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AndrewKemendo11 months ago
The existence of absurdities like this, and everything there surrounds it is beyond obscene when there continues to exist poverty - in the same places where these are being carried<p>Everyone involved at every level should be ashamed of themselves and should be significantly questioning whether or not their life is a net negative on the world
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tkz131211 months ago
The original NFT
goalonetwo11 months ago
anyone spending 20k$ on a handbag lost all touch with reality.
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