Former junior and Masters racer here. Glad to see there's some very qualified voices in these comments, including a few who are currently involved (as racing parents). I very much appreciate the level of technical detail and accuracy in those comments. I'll talk base bevels all day.<p>Pretty much agree with everything those folks have written. Most definitely sharp edges, and your bevels, matter when you are really pushing it, especially if you are racing, and most especially if you are on extremely hard or even water-injected snow.<p>Outside of that type of skiing, the ski tech on the lift was, I think, making a point that is true enough for most "normie" skiers, and inadvertently the blog author validated it with the microscope experiment. The short version is that once your edge angles are set, "polishing" them with a diamond stone should, generally, mostly, be all that is necessary to restore the edge shape after use. No filing should be necessary. If the edge get damaged with rocks or rust, this is no longer true. All caveats apply. The ski tech is just trying to say "don't pay a shop to run your skis through the machine when all you need is to rub your edges with a diamond stone for a minute."<p>Now, just how practical this is, again depends on who you are. You'd have to be:<p>- A regular enough skier to own your own equipment<p>- Good enough to benefit from a tuned edge<p>- Technical and handy enough to buy a diamond stone and learn to use it<p>- It has to not be impractical to go through this ritual after skiing (try doing this with two or three young, tired kids in tow)<p>Anyway I just enjoyed having this be on the front page of HN today. I'm good at like 2 things and this is one of them.
It totally depends on the type of skier and the type of skis you have. I worked in the ski industry and thus lived and worked in ski towns for 15 years. If you are a ski racer, tuning edges matter. If you aggressively ride groomers all day, then they will matter. Riding big fat powder skis everyday, inside and outside of the resort? More or less doesn't matter. Are you a park rat that only ever skis the park? Those folks will actually detune their edges on purpose.<p>If you are a beginner / intermediate skier (someone who never to rarely carves a ski), edges on the blunter side of things can actually help you out. Sure, it's a bit more sketchy on ice, however just doing a "slide turn" is going to be much easier. It will take less force to make your skis point where you want them too, making you much more confident. It's one of the reasons they put beginners on smaller skis. Less edge = easier turning.<p>I have skis that were kept dry and haven't been sharpened in years and ski perfectly fine and it's exactly how I want them.
I'm a ski race parent. I tune every couple of days on snow. My U12 boy skis on
0.5 degrees base bevel, three degrees side edge. Here he is on a firm course at his last race this year: <a href="https://youtu.be/RWYO2ib-qe8?si=CRH01ViFUFApSx_o" rel="nofollow">https://youtu.be/RWYO2ib-qe8?si=CRH01ViFUFApSx_o</a><p>Setting that up is difficult but it's pretty easy to maintain once it is there. Side cut.com has great advice and tools.<p>If you are on groomers and ski on decent skis, not powder boards, it is worth getting a tune.<p>For ski racing and carving on man made snow, it is very similar to ice skating, you'll want to tune very frequently.
> <i>"Last winter, I rode a ski lift alongside a guy who claimed to be a retired Olympic ski tuner."</i><p>On another note, this is apparantely a high-risk occupation due to exposure to PFAS and other carcinogens in ski wax. The FIS recently banned the use of fluorinated wax in competitions, but it was the norm for many years. Not great to be a ski tuner breathing in all those heated/aerosolised PFAS compounds...
My rule of thumb is to get the edges tuned once a season (I clock ~40 days), usually after the last of the rocks is covered up by the initial snow. If one skis less than that, it's possible to get away with every other season, but keep a gummy stone to deburr the edges as needed.<p>If anyone has any methods to reliably grind edges at home, I'd be interested. I have one of the edge tools and a bunch of files, but I basically destroyed a pair of skis (thankfully an old crummy pair, put to new use as part of an adirondack chair built from my busted skis) when trying to get it right. Considering a local shop will do it for $40 / pair, that seems like a better use of my time. Still, I've got that DIY itch to scratch about this and haven't seemed to get it right.
I'm in a ski share house in the northeast. Last winter I organized a ski tuning clinic put on by the local ski shop that does race tunes. I thought that only the expert nerdy skiers in the house would be interested, but everyone was fascinated. Most of the attendees won't tune their own skis, but they will know what to look for in their skis, and when to take them in.<p>Also, in the north east, tuned skis absolutely matter, whatever level you are. My wife has been learning to ski and had trouble with ice. So I put on her beginner skis, and said, ahh no wonder, went back and tuned them. Then I put her on my slalom skis because she didn't trust her skis to initiate a turn (slalom skis are famously quick to initiate), and she could turn them quickly. Then I tuned one edge of each slalom ski with a more aggressive tune, but she could swap back to regular if she wanted. Finally, she was skidding her turns too much, so I put her on my GS skis, which forced her to patiently start the turn then follow it through. She now has a good idea of when she's having trouble with the ski shape, the conditions or the ski tune after 35 total days of skiing.<p>If you put a beginner or intermediate on race skis, make sure the tune is mellow enough. Slalom skis at 0.5 and 86, will hunt when not turning, and can grab an edge throwing you to the ground. At the steeper angles (86/87 vs 88/89) it is much harder to skid the ski for speed control. When you head out with a beginner, you can always bring a diamond stone and detune the tip/tail, on the mountain even. They will notice the difference and appreciate it.
A lot depends on where you ski. If you're skiing in the Northeast US, where conditions are often icy, then yes tuning matters a great deal. If you race, or want precision in your turns, then tuning is important.<p>If you're a powder hound in Utah or Niseko, then it matters a lot less.
If you’re a weekend warrior like me, for whom 20 days is a fantastic season, the binding release check that your shop should be doing as part of your ski service is probably the most important part, especially as your skis get older.<p>I had to stop using my beloved “ice cutters” because one of the bindings failed to release in the shop. Up to that point, I had rarely been disappointed by them releasing too easily, and always relieved when they did release.<p>Make sure that they use one of your boots for the test.
I have to wonder...<p>The article shows edges and the effect of sharpening.<p>However, I would imagine corrosion makes much of the surface of the ski more abrasive and that could explain the grabbiness.<p>Is there any science behind the edge assertions? almost all of it is anecdotal.<p>I can't help but think of overengineering and a/v systems.<p>For example, I can't tell any difference from different speaker wires (except bad cables), but I do notice hiss in amplifiers. And I think OLED might be superior, but honestly dark scenes are horrible during daylight hours unless you have blackout curtains in the room with the panel. No review or marketing ever talks about these practical details. Same with reflections with glossy screens.
Sharp skis are necessary for good control otherwise you're just sliding around. Snow and Ice aren't the only things you ski over as there is a ton of dirt and other debris mixed in. Sometimes you get rocks and pebbles near trail edges. Heck, spring skiing will put you on trails with thin snow cover in addition to patches of grass and dirt that will destroy your skis (fun fact: hitting grass at speed is NOT fun - instant stop.)<p>My father was also of the opinion that wax was a scam as he stated it would likely wear off in the first few runs. The idea was it filled in the scratches on the ski bottoms leaving a flatter surface. Maybe it works. maybe it doesn't. I always enjoyed watching the guys in the ski shops apply it by taking a slice of wax and then using a clothes iron, melt it like a pat of butter along the bottom.
Unless you do your own tuning (or are willing to light money on fire) it’s hard to A/B test ski waxing/edge tuning. I kinda suspect this alleged olympic tuner didn’t cross compare, or just doesn’t ski in ways where you’d notice (he might just like skid turns through packed powder). Or he just uses backcountry noodles on groomed snow, and can’t tell since he’s using skis that won’t let him.<p>Going from dull edges (even “well maintained” ones) to freshly sharpened is quite noticeable on icy days. I use 0°/4° and like the responsiveness and grip.<p>From my long past race days (when I had to maintain several pairs simultaneously), I could tell that the wax design temp mattered deeply, though mostly >25f vs lower temp. High temp waxes are down right sticky in cold snow (and vice versa). But cold waxes are largely fine for middle temps (~10-20f or whatever). The (horrifying) fluoro stuff was also very effective, though probably banned by now if anyone is sane. I wasn’t able to tell the difference beyond the temp though, unless the skis were damaged. Though, I mostly just don’t wax these days since I’m not trying to eek out extra speed.<p>Base bevel (the angle trimmed off the metal edge from the side that sits on the snow) matters and is largely ignored by skiers/snowboarders, since tuners are cautious, and skiers don’t know to ask. It determines how responsive the skis are (going from 0° to 1° means you need to tilt your leg an extra degree). You can only decrease it (or clean it up) by flattening the entire base and then sharpening, which requires specialized equipment.<p>Edge bevel matters, but allegedly has diminishing returns. It (allegedly) gives a bit of extra grippyness. I’ve never quite understood why it matters, since it seems like it just narrows the metal very slightly. From my A/B testing, the freshness of the sharpening seems to matter more than the edge angle, but I’ve also never set it below 2°.
Sports and folk knowledge have long been companions. I just saw an article about some teams running 25mm tires on the new gravel stage at the Tour de France because "25mm is fast." It doesn't help that elite athletes can be very opinionated about what is best for their performance, and they are so talented, fit, and well-trained they can perform well on deficient equipment.
My skis used to hit a variety of rocks, dirt, grit and bits of metal. Even on clean looking snow there are probably bits of grit occasionally. I'm not sure pure snow would wear the steel edges significantly?
> Snow and ice are quite abrasive stuff<p>Per wiki ice has mohs hardness of 2 to 4 depending on temperature and if it has fallen out of the sky I guess it shouldn't be mixed with sand or other abrasives.<p>How is it abrasive then?
> Luckily, fixing this kind of damage isn’t hard. I use a 3D printed jig with a 500 grit diamond stone. A couple of glides down the edge is enough to completely clear this up.<p>I don't ski often enough to own my own skis, so I rent them. Having used those rentals in icy conditions, I've had a lousy time due to their shoddy edges. A tool like this would make my day(s) on the slopes so much better. Anybody know of a place I could buy something like this, so that I could bring the rentals into "serviceable" condition?
Its a shitty article.<p>Just looking at your skies and seeing an 'issue' doesn't tell you anything besides the fact that yes something had fun with that edge.<p>Questions which are completly unanswered: How long does a sharp edge actually stay as it is? If it looks like this after 5 minutes, it doesn't matter.<p>It also doesn't say if it was snow, ice or stones/ground killing that edge.<p>And as far as i remember, he didn't say anything regarding the waxing.
Yes, the edge does get blunt. And you can notice it in close up photos. However, does it get blunt enough to affect performance?<p>After all, it's not like a knife trying to cut through a piece of meat
So here's a silly question from someone who's never been near a...whatever you call a place where skiing is done. Skis have sharp edges? Why?