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Ask HN: Why is Gnome so inceridlby, insanely, bad?

10 pointsby indulona9 months ago
I was trying various linux distributions in virtualbox to check out how they look and feel because I might switch from windows 10 in near future and I heard good things about linux recently, especially about games due to Valve&#x27;s Proton.<p>I really liked Fedora as the primary distro I would go for and I like the look of gnome in it, but i could not figure out how it could have such a horrible user experience in 2024.<p>What am i talking about..<p>Firstly, there are no min&#x2F;max icons on the windows. Only close. So you have to sherlock your way through the internet and find out you need a third party extension that will enable this basic functionality, which has been part of any mainstream operating system for decades as absolutely basic standard for window managers and absolutely no person in the world who has ever used a computer would expect NOT to have it available in their operating system.<p>Second, it has a top bar that is like on a mobile phone and has no real functionality on desktop(ie. it shows time and not much else). In order to see the task bar, you have to press top-left icon that will bring it up. And it is not a task bar, it is just a dock ala apple mac os. So in order to switch between applications, you have to use tab or get into this desktop section by clicking on said icon(possibly win-key or some other functional key). This takes so much time and requires so many actions that I am probably simply too retarded to imagine a person who came up with such behavior and on top of that other people deemed it to be so good to make it the default behavior in the entire gnome project.<p>When you sherlock through the internet yet again, and waste many more time, yet again, you will find there is yet another third party extension what will allow you to transform this hidden dock into constantly visible dock, maybe even make it look like a proper task bar by removing that useless top bar.<p>These are mere two examples. I simply cannot imagine how in 2024 linux is still so incredibly stupid when it comes to desktop. I&#x27;ve been using computers since 1996, am no it&#x2F;tech newbie, but this just takes my breath away.<p>Can someone explain why that is going on?<p>And yeah, I tried KDE as well. That was issue-less from the get-go, like any desktop environment is supposed to be. My gripe is with gnome due to its popularity. I would expect it to be long dead when the user experience is worse than a $2 philipine whore.

11 comments

PopGreene9 months ago
&gt; Firstly, there are no min&#x2F;max icons on the windows...<p>I&#x27;m mostly with you on this one. They should be present by default. Now I can&#x27;t speak for Fedora, but on Debian there are two configuration apps called &quot;Settings&quot; and &quot;Tweaks.&quot; Tweaks will let you configure the top bar of windows along with a few other options. It would seem to me to make sense that Settings and Tweaks should be one app, but whatever...<p>&gt; Second, it has a top bar that is like on a mobile phone and has no real functionality...<p>I think this is a matter of taste. I tried KDE and stuck with it for a while, but it seemed a little to hard to configure and I wasn&#x27;t happy with what I ended up with. This surprised me as I was familiar with KDE&#x27;s reputation for configurability.<p>Now on Gnome, I have configured it to show the task bar when I touch the left edge of the screen. Configuring this was too difficult, but it wasn&#x27;t any worse than figuring out how to configure the task bar the way I (mostly) wanted it on KDE. With Gnome, I got the behavior I wanted. With KDE, I never quite got there.
PaulHoule9 months ago
The people involved are terribly ideological, for one thing. They just don&#x27;t listen. Ever.
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lbhdc9 months ago
I know everyone is hating on Gnome, but I love it. I have been daily driving it for years, and it keeps getting better. I have been using essentially the default experience for most of that time.<p>As someone who likes heavy keyboard centric flows, but still likes using a mouse, gnome feels like it was made with me in mind.<p>The keyboard navigation in the overview feels just as good as it does with a mouse.
lahvak9 months ago
First, I never liked Gnome, I remember trying it few times years ago, and quickly returning back to fvwm2 every time. On the other hand, I never understood why window managers put icons on the window title bars, and in my own fvwm2 config, the max and min icons were the first thing I removed. I mostly used keyboard to toggle between maximized and unmaximized state of a window, and if I really needed a mouse for it, I would double click the title bar with the same effect (I also used keyboard to toggle vertical only and horizontal only maximization). With practically unlimited number of virtual desktops, I never needed to minimize a window, and I usually had too many windows open for a taskbar to be useful, instead I had a popup menu for finding windows (both just this desktop and all desktops). Now, after switching to i3, my windows still have no icons on title bars, and I use rofi to find windows, so still no taskbar.
JohnFen9 months ago
I don&#x27;t know that Gnome is <i>bad</i>.<p>I certainly hate it, personally, and won&#x27;t use it. It makes everything difficult. But there are quite a lot of people who love it, and that tells me that my opinion of it is due to a difference in taste, not a question of quality.
hollerith9 months ago
&gt;in order to switch between applications, you have to use tab or get into this desktop section by clicking on said icon<p>What I do is to configure the first 5 function keys to switch to the 5 apps I use most frequently. f2 (not Ctrl-f2 or Alt-f2, but plain f2) for example switches to my browser.
diegoholiveira9 months ago
I use to like Gnome 2. Simple, clean and efficient. When Gnome 3 was launched, I was already using a mac book, so didn&#x27;t try it.
runjake9 months ago
<p><pre><code> &gt; Firstly, there are no min&#x2F;max icons on the windows. </code></pre> My GNOME on Ubuntu has min&#x2F;max icons for the windows. What am I missing?<p><pre><code> &gt; Second, it has a top bar that is like on a mobile phone and has no real functionality on desktop(ie. it shows time and not much else). </code></pre> Time and system tray icons (wi-fi, account stuff, etc). Yes. I added some extension that turned it into a global menu bar, because I&#x27;m used to macOS and I like it that way. I also have my workspaces (virtual desktop) switcher up there.<p><pre><code> &gt; yet again, you will find there is yet another third party extension what will allow you to transform this hidden dock into constantly visible dock </code></pre> I have a visible dock. It was originally on the left side of the screen but I moved it to the bottom and disabled the setting that made it span the width of the screen. I didn&#x27;t need to install a third-party extension for this?<p><pre><code> &gt; I tried KDE as well. That was issue-less from the get-go, like any desktop environment is supposed to be. </code></pre> Then... use KDE, if it fits your tastes better? With Linux, you have that choice.<p>I am not excited by GNOME, but it works pretty well and is both easy to and very highly-configurable. I wonder how many of your complaints are due to how it differs from the desktop environment you&#x27;re used to. Also, you can customize all this -- a lot of the time with just GNOME Tweaks and no third-party extensions.
big-green-man9 months ago
Well, it all started with a little thing called Ubuntu Netbook Edition around 2008 or 9, can&#x27;t remember. People wanted to experiment with different user interfaces and experiences for your core environment to see if they could make UX workflows better, make better use of display real estate, make things more ergonomic, etc. Eventually, the netbook edition environment because Ubuntu&#x27;s Unity desktop environment, and gnome2 became Gnome3 with similar sorts of interface ideas.<p>It didn&#x27;t matter that nobody liked the new interfaces. It was dismissed by developers as &quot;people are resistant to change&quot;, and that really was the beginning of this paradigm that developers know better than users what they need and the world we now live in of tolerating what is available and people being herded into behaviors by UX designers.<p>A lot of other decisions have been made to fundamentally change the Linux experience since then as a result of the normalization of this, the most popular init system, systemd, subverted our existing ones, we have all kinds of deviations from the Unix way, and some are good I think but generally, administering a Linux system went from something a single person could do and understand the entire system in their head to something that requires continuing education and niche specialization. Systems evolve, yes, but Linux is basically fundamentally different than it was in those days, it&#x27;s still got the monolithic kernel and the basic Unix like structure, but managing a system is now much more complex than it used to be.<p>I don&#x27;t think I know anyone who uses gnome. If you&#x27;re just trying to get the usual desktop type experience you&#x27;re used to, you can use KDE, XFCE, MATE (which is a fork of gnome2), I recently checked out LXDE and found it to be utterly fantastic so far, it usually looks 95-ish out of the box but themed it looks nice and modern. If I were to recommend a &quot;normal&quot; desktop with a full suite of basic software I&#x27;d recommend that. Or, you can build something from components, that&#x27;s what I usually do these days since DEs come with a lot of stuff I don&#x27;t need, I like Wayland so I use either labwc for the classic desktop windowing and stuff, or sway for tiling and I&#x27;ll tell you, tiling is where it&#x27;s at once you get the hang of it. Those mobile phone looking full-of-extra-steps-to-get-to-anything environments like what youre talking about are absolute trash as far as I&#x27;m concerned.
taylodl9 months ago
Yeah, Fedora has no gnome tweaks by default. To me, it&#x27;s just another reason not to use Fedora. The primary reason being Fedora is essentially an IBM distribution, and IBM could screw up a wet dream.
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seventh129 months ago
TLDR, you&#x27;re exaggerating. It works fine