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Company Says It Uses Your Phones Mic to Serve Ads for Facebook, Google, etc.

115 pointsby IronWolve9 months ago

21 comments

kmeisthax9 months ago
I&#x27;m a firm &quot;ad audio spying denialist&quot;, but that&#x27;s mainly an &quot;uhm, ACKTUALLY&quot; kind of denial. Ad firms absolutely do spy, but probably not through the use of microphone audio... mainly because that&#x27;s way too much information for what they actually want to do. That and every mobile OS shows very obvious warnings whenever media capture is being used, and I&#x27;m not aware of a sanctioned way to defeat those that isn&#x27;t a 0day exploit that would get caught, patched, and banned off the App Store &#x2F; Google Play in short order.<p>What I suspect is actually going on is the boring ol kind of location tracking and fingerprinting. Locations, searches, and call history. <i>Metadata</i>, in the language of surveillance law. Of course, the cruel joke of surveillance law[0] is that metadata <i>is</i> content: you can infer the content of a conversation from the circumstances of which it took place. Three-letter agencies rely on the fact that nobody understands this, and so do advertisers (of whom they pay money for data from).<p>[0] I&#x27;m resisting calling it the &quot;holographic principle of surveillance&quot; on principle.
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wmf9 months ago
Previous discussion: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=41404229">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=41404229</a> There are reasons to be skeptical of this.
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m4639 months ago
I&#x27;ve noticed that when calling companies on the phone, many of them have started pointing out where to read their privacy policy.<p>I suspect many types of technologies are starting to use voice for identification, demographics, emotional analysis, and the data is being saved and&#x2F;or shared.<p>And lots of phone trees now require you to talk instead of using touchtone sounds.
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n_ary9 months ago
I am absolutely glad that, I disable Siri immediately on all of my devices and grateful for the ominous mic-in-use indicator on all apple devices. Android also has a mic in use indicator too, but own only a Pixel to comment on Android in general.<p>The referenced articles are light on details and appear to be “he said she said they said” and pointing to the same archived blog post from CMG.<p>That being said, I see a rising popularity of Alexa all over my circle, so no high hopes. Even if I can battle my devices, I can’t battle my family, friends and neighbors from adding Amazon Echo devices everywhere and mindlessly talking to it all day.<p>Edit: redundancy and typo.
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Intralexical9 months ago
With billions of phones in circulation, and rumors of audio eavesdropping being quite common, why has apparently nobody ever run a typical smartphone with network logging and memory snapshotting to actually <i>check</i> what all these widely popular apps are doing?
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winternett9 months ago
I&#x27;d make the more believable assumption that it&#x27;s basically collusion between all kinds of device makers, OS makers, and software makers to transcribe voice to text that is stored in once central location on the device, then made accessible to a wide variety of apps. This is how keywords trigger ads and various content items. The EULAS that need the most scrutiny are those with device makers and OS makers, because they can deny certain access to app makers at the root of operations on devices, which they regularly dont, and they also complicate the transparency of how apps access our data and run in the background by design.<p>I&#x27;d assume that at major social media and software companies, this data from individual devices is accessible in almost real time, feeding a dashboard of information that only top executives can secretly monitor world-wide conversations and user activity for people that have their specific devices.<p>I&#x27;d also assume that this method of bootleg monitoring has been in play legally and illegally for some time now... It&#x27;s far too tempting to company execs and CEOs to not get hooked on the god complex of having access to this level of data... If you think about it, imagine being able to access any photos and conversations from anyone on the planet any time you want...<p>Congress does nothing about it because many of them are afraid it will destroy the economy and upset the wealthy backers to these companies that fund all of them. One day long into the future, there may be a low-key class action settlement that won&#x27;t change a damn thing, and lawyers will sweep up most of the paltry settlement money.<p>We pay thousands of dollars now for devices that spy on us, while they barely provide any means of opportunity and extra utility to us. Use black tape and cover your front camera, and leave devices at home sometimes... We&#x27;re really defenseless against corporate greed and corruption though, watch what you say around tech devices now more than ever.
skybrian9 months ago
I don’t see confirmation of anything in particular here, other than some ad sales company made some rather vague and dubious claims. Does anyone know what specifically they were talking about and if there’s anything to it?
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lakomen9 months ago
On Discord many years ago I spoke to someone about my &quot;big belly&quot;. The next day I received ads about exactly that topic everywhere Adsense Facebook everywhere. So the technology is at least 10 years old and I totally believe that the story is true.<p>The key issue here is that we don&#x27;t own our phones. We have little control over what those apps do and often apps are hidden and can&#x27;t be uninstalled.
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RandallBrown9 months ago
I don&#x27;t doubt that this technology exists, but I do seriously doubt Facebook, Google, Amazon, etc. use it. They don&#x27;t need to.
LeftHandPath9 months ago
I’ve noticed that my ads get far more specific when I have mic and camera access enabled for Instagram (which is required in order to post stories with certain features). In fact, I’ve often (correctly) realized I accidentally left access on after posting due to a hyper-specific ad relating to a recent conversation.
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9cb14c1ec09 months ago
So, either these ad-tech companies are involved in the biggest privacy scandal of all time, or else they are involved in massive fraud by selling a non-existent service. Bad look either way.
1vuio0pswjnm79 months ago
Company provides a way for Facebook, etc. to state, truthfully, &quot;We do not listen in on conversations&quot;. The Facebook marketing partner does that for them.
ChrisArchitect9 months ago
[dupe]<p>Discussion: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=41404229">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=41404229</a>
ycombinatrix9 months ago
I remember the official Facebook app would turn on the microphone for a few seconds every time you made a post.<p>Do they still do that?
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Abishek_Muthian9 months ago
LineageOS&#x27;s mic, camera toggle is really helpful for this. During calls we can unblock in real-time.
_cs2017_9 months ago
Flagging this because it&#x27;s clearly trash &#x2F; fake news. Please see <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=41404229">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=41404229</a> for background.
pcstl9 months ago
This is very likely fake.<p>But why would a company say they do this? It&#x27;s because so many people believe that this happens anyway that there&#x27;s next to no cost to them in saying it - and the buyers for this kind of technology think of this as a good thing.<p>It might be fake, but people being scared of your powerful technology is good for sales.<p>AI labs do the same thing by actively courting fearmongering.
mapt9 months ago
Does &quot;Felony wiretapping&quot; mean nothing?
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lifepillar9 months ago
&gt;Our technology […] collects opt-in customer behavior data from hundreds of popular websites that offer top display, video platforms, social applications, and mobile marketplaces that allow laser-focused media buying.<p>To me this seems:<p>1. not mobile specific; 2. totally plausible; 3. despicable in many ways, but “opt-in” makes me think of (a) masterfully crafted fine print in some Terms of Service that would acknowledge the collection of audio, and (b) that this has nothing to do with a phone mic maliciously being turned on without the user noticing, but it’s rather recording from a mic intentionally activated by the user during the normal interaction with an app or web site.
spdustin9 months ago
Well, my wife and I have been on a months-long experiment. We have HomePod minis, Macs and iPhones&#x2F;iPads in the house. They are able to access the internet without restriction (other than using my own DNS resolver for ad&#x2F;malware blocking purposes.<p>Our TVs (2020-era Vizio and 2018-era Samsung) are on a separate VLAN for home automation control, and are otherwise blocked from the internet¹. Additionally, they have the various &quot;content intelligence&quot; features disabled...just in case.<p>We also have a few Nest devices (the 1st gen wired Hello doorbell cam, The Nest&#x2F;Yale deadbolt, a 2nd gen thermostat, and some Nest Protects) that are normally similarly segmented, though the Hello is allowed to communicate to the necessary domains for video streaming and PubSub notifications.<p>On August 1, while on a neighborhood walk without any electronic devices, we formulated the plan: every day, we&#x27;d find a reason to discuss mulch² in the presence of various devices in our home. What color of mulch we think would look best around various trees. The virtues of recycled rubber as a mulch substitute. The drainage issues it causes. And so on.<p>We committed to never searching for mulch online (to hide from the ever-present surveillance online), never discussing it with anyone (to avoid social network effects), never buying it (no data broker can hoover up mulch purchases), not dwelling on any social media post about mulch (analytics, man, it&#x27;s crazy what that bit of metadata can do)...not even hanging around the garden department of local stores (gotta avoid bluetooth&#x2F;BLE&#x2F;wifi tracking).<p>But I DID disable the DNS blocklists (much to our browsing frustration). And while the smart home stuff remained on its own VLAN, I allowed it otherwise unfettered access to the internet during the month of August.<p>Since the experiment began, we&#x27;ve seen the net sum of zero (0) targeted ads about mulch. No banners, no interstitial social media posts, no phone calls, no flyers in the mailbox. Nothing.<p>I really don&#x27;t believe that our devices are eavesdropping on us, but in the interest of science, the experiment continues for another month.³<p>---<p>1) Yes, I recognize that Sidewalk&#x2F;ethernet-over-HDMI&#x2F;hard-coded DNS&#x2F;etc is a purported &quot;thing&quot;, but I don&#x27;t believe it&#x27;s likely. I&#x27;m controlling for this during the month of September by re-enabling the filtering mentioned at the start; if our TVs are committed to exfiltrating surveillance data.<p>2) We&#x27;ve not really been discussing mulch. I&#x27;m using that as a proxy here, because all of the internet is a series of tubes that lead to advertising networks. But we did choose a unique topic of conversation that would be relevant to our demographics, geographical location, and season, and meaningful to advertisers.<p>3) On September 1, I re-enabled all the blocklists and VLAN network filters&#x2F;blackholes. But we continue to discuss, er, mulch. Like I said, if our stuff really <i>really</i> wants to phone the mothership to have Big Mulch pay us a visit, there are supposed to be ways for them to do that. <i>Right?</i><p>___<p>EDIT: The topic we chose is also something that&#x27;s not typically discussed in our social network, nor our kids&#x27; social networks. I will say that it&#x27;s related to a profitable market, and we&#x27;re in the target demographic, but we did our best to identify a market that we didn&#x27;t have in common with our social groups.
sandspar9 months ago
&quot;Is Google Always Listening: Live Test&quot; (6 years ago)<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;live&#x2F;zBnDWSvaQ1I?si=GTF9CIe8wsqpDHet" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;live&#x2F;zBnDWSvaQ1I?si=GTF9CIe8wsqpDHet</a><p>Is this video bullshit? It seems like bullshit.