After all the wailing and rending of clothes, the industrial policy worked out great and we have top tier production here in the US, transferring knowledge from TSMC to a US workforce.<p>This is a significant win for the US, and just the beginning of the amazing industrial policy passed over the past few years.<p>US manufacturing is about to be reinvigorated, and we in the US are going to be building our own future both for chips and for energy security.<p>This is great news, and we should celebrate.
I feel like I've read a few articles on Bloomberg and/or NYT (drawing a blank on the exact source) that a very large portion of the workforce was taken directly from Taiwan and the American workers were having a hard time adopting to the Taiwanese way of doing things (long hours, on call all the time, constantly stepping outside your predefined roll, etc.). Is this currently now, or will it in the future, affect the overall success of the factory? (It also might simply be untrue for all I know.)
to be honest, this is far better news than I was expected, and sooner, too.<p>is anyone else besides Intel making ~4nm* node wafers on US soil?<p>*yes I know I know I know about the misnomer with using nm measurements nowadays
Genuine question: what upside does it have against supply chain attacks?<p>Is it possible that an adversary to implement a backdoor into a chip design, without Apple noticing it?<p>I'm not a chip designer so perhaps the answer is obvious to some of you guys, but I'd expect some verification mechanism at Apple's side of the manufactured chips to match their original design to verify that they aren't tampered with?
Isn’t Taiwan’s success in creating a TSMC correlated to the pyramid of their workforce which supplied skill at every level commensurate for high tech manufacturing’s demands? They have a high number of post-grads in their population AND also a large number of what we in the US call vocational/technical-educated working class. How are we doing as a country over time by the same measure?
This should go a long way to ensuring our national security does not suffer. We don’t need TSMC level volume production, plenty of non Taiwan entities exist to balance the risk.<p>We do need latest edge tech to be within our borders and TSMC and Samsung will deliver that in 2-3 years.
Wow that was fast, is this a regular timeframe to get a new fab working?<p>From the conversations about China catching up on smaller chips I got the impression that it takes loads of iterations around how to calibrate the machines but it seems TSMC nailed it not only on Taiwan but also overseas very fast.
<a href="https://www.ft.com/content/3fa44901-33e4-4ab4-9f7b-efe1575a6553" rel="nofollow">https://www.ft.com/content/3fa44901-33e4-4ab4-9f7b-efe1575a6...</a> & <a href="https://archive.ph/FDmwq" rel="nofollow">https://archive.ph/FDmwq</a><p><i>> US and Japan are close to a deal to curb tech exports to China’s chip industry.. export controls are designed to close loopholes in existing rules.. make it harder for China to obtain critical chipmaking tools — restrictions that would have the biggest impact on ASML in the Netherlands and Tokyo Electron in Japan.. to restrict servicing, including software updates, and maintenance of the tools..</i>
Unless this is election propaganda, which very well it might be, this is huge news. I know there were a lot of problems for this facility and wasn't aware they were this far advanced in production.
A little-known fact is that Donna Dubinsky, the CEO of Palm/Handspring in its glory days, is on the staff of the Dept. of Commerce specifically to help with the CHIPS Act.<p>Or at least was:<p><a href="https://www.commerce.gov/news/press-releases/2022/09/biden-harris-administration-announces-chips-america-leadership" rel="nofollow">https://www.commerce.gov/news/press-releases/2022/09/biden-h...</a><p>I don't know what role, if any, she had with TSMC.
Looking back on some of the comments from this thread^, especially those claiming that TSMC building a factory in the US was infeasible/impossible, was entertaining in light of the current thread.<p>^<a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39273830">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39273830</a>
Knowing all the efforts that the US government has had to devote in order to push Apple to bring those jobs home, for other countries that do not have as much muscle as in financial and industrial leverage, their industrial future must look quite bleak.
Hats off to TSMC. They had big culture clash and US has a lot of red tape and high labor costs. They did it!<p>Also kudos to CHIPS act.<p>I'd rather have Boeing and Intel wither off, for them to be replaced by new players who bring highly efficient manufacturing to the table.
That's great to hear. I hope other countries, like Canada and the EU, also do this. I think it's important for all major nations to have this sort of critical capability in house.<p>Covid showed this well, despite being allies, countries tended to get vaccines to their own people first, even breaking agreements with allies. That's likely normal, and a bit of mutual distrust is healthy.
Everyone seems to be celebrating this as a victory for the US, but I can’t help but think of David Ricardo’s Law of Comparative advantage. National security concerns aside for a second, what high tech sectors will the US necessarily be investing in less now that we are putting those valuable resources into chip-making? Are these sectors more or less valuable/profitable than chip-making? I don’t have an answer, but this is the framework that needs to be used to address the question. The US can’t do everything, especially with current immigration restrictions on high tech workers.
How much of this fab's supply chain still comes from Taiwan and/or China? Most especially, where does the fab process equipment itself come from?
So this is the N4P node... From way back in 2021.<p>And these are 2 year old chips for a phone that is about to stop being sold...<p>Seems this news might be more political than strategic... The US still relies on Taiwan for every <i>modern</i> chip.
Exactly what does “manufacturing in America” mean? It could be as little as final assembly with most of the work still being done in Taiwan. Like Cook said Mac Pros were “being made in America”.
Since US manufactured products are traditionally reputed to be low quality, should we expect to have to look for serial numbers to get iphones with non buggy A16 chips?
All this because Donald Trump claims (contrary to nearly <i>all</i> economists) that forcing companies to manufacture products on US soil is <i>beneficial</i> in some way that he (Trump) feels confident will make America great again. It is so embarrassing that these outdated ideas are entertained for even a second by HN readers.
A strategic triumph for both the current and previous administrations. Both Trump and Biden handled the situation adroitly. These may not be the absolute bleeding edge tech but it’s a proof of concept that we can wean ourselves from Chinese tech if it becomes necessary.<p>It comes at the cost of many, many Chinese jobs in the midst of a devastating economic downturn there. They are victims of repeated local and geopolitical malpractice by the current emperor.<p>EDIT: User lotsofpulp pointed out that we don’t make any strategic chips in China. That is of course true. I meant that the game of economic chess played by the current and previous administrations has been highly effective in reducing China’s options.
That's horrible news, as I was considering grabbing an iPhone... I guess only refurbished, but still, you can trust an American factory even less.
I can't believe iPhone chips, almost the supreme luxury good, are considered worthy of Federal subsidies.<p>Surely a better path would have been to slap imported silicon with tarriffs at least equal to their gov't subsidies?<p>(Unpopular opinion: The people that spent the last 30 years giving away US & EU manufacturing to the Far East - no doubt with plenty of "10% for the big guy" type deals behind the scenes - should all be shot.)
This is troubling news, as we could soon be paying $2,500 for an iPhone within the next three years. The original reason for outsourcing was to keep costs down, and now, with this trade war, it's clear consumers will bear the burden.<p>While some may see the return of manufacturing to the U.S. as a win for national pride, the reality is more complex. The high cost of U.S. labor, combined with excessive bureaucracy, leads to higher production costs, which ultimately get passed on to consumers. There's nothing inherently beneficial about manufacturing in the U.S. other than symbolic gestures tied to identity politics.<p>Most consumers want affordable, high-quality products, not overpriced goods that may be touted as "Made in America" but offer no real value beyond that label. Instead of focusing on where products are made, the priority should be on ensuring that they are durable and not part of a system of planned obsolescence. We want iPhones that last longer, not cost more, yet U.S. manufacturing may drive up prices without offering real improvements in quality or longevity.<p>Unfortunately, the consumer is losing in this scenario—stuck paying for rising costs while receiving little in return. We need to reassess the real benefits of domestic manufacturing and whether they justify the inevitable price hikes. It’s clear that without a shift in strategy, we're moving toward a future where innovation is stifled by political posturing and unnecessary cost inflation.