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Why that one coworker got fired for no reason

64 pointsby andyg_blog7 months ago

30 comments

andrewla7 months ago
Your company has been captured. It&#x27;s over -- if you are quietly competent you will either have your coworkers and technical managers create a shield around you or you will find yourself outcompeted by developers who spend all of their time creating proof of work instead of doing work, and creating heavily documented CRUD apps with predictable milestones rather than challenging work where the solution is not known.<p>Join them if you can; dumb down your work and focus on predictable things rather than interesting work. Try to move closer to a profit center instead of a cost center because you&#x27;ll get proof in the pudding there. And start quietly sending out resumes.<p>If you have a good manager who understands your contribution and can deal with the politics and constant demands for progress reports from do-nothing middle managers who need to send progress reports to their managers then you can probably do well until they get pushed out.
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cvoss7 months ago
&gt; What’s a more realistic scenario here? Your manager stands up to their entire chain of command...<p>She should try, at the very least. Otherwise you have a bad manager. Your manager&#x27;s job is to look out for what&#x27;s best for the team, not to answer to a chain of command. This isn&#x27;t the military.<p>If any employee, at any level, can&#x27;t have a constructive conversation with the level above about what the level above has gotten wrong, you have a busted company culture.<p>Remember, you, the IC, are supposed to be the expert at your programming job. Your manager doesn&#x27;t have that expertise, but she is supposed to be the expert at understanding what you&#x27;re up to. <i>Her</i> manager doesn&#x27;t have <i>that</i> expertise, so the second line manager should depend on your manager for that information, rather than dictate down manifestly inadequate productivity measures.
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tombert7 months ago
I don&#x27;t really disagree with anything in this post, but it&#x27;s a bit sad. I understand the &quot;why&quot; of the scenario, but it will never not be frustrating to me when I have to &quot;prove&quot; that I&#x27;m creating value because I didn&#x27;t tailor my work to optimize for whatever system the company is using.<p>Like, I just want to solve problems with code, I hate that I also have to constantly advertise how smart and useful I am because managers are so myopic that they can&#x27;t figure out if I&#x27;m valuable.<p>It brings out the worst in people; you get people holding meetings about stuff that could be summarized in an email in order to give the illusion of working hard. Pages and pages of documents that will never be read are created because if you don&#x27;t create them then it&#x27;s hard to say you were doing stuff. Hundreds of tickets pile up in Jira that will never get done because you need to give the appearance that you&#x27;re actively important in the improvement of the product(s).<p>I get it, it&#x27;s the world we live in, but I don&#x27;t have to like it.
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SkipperCat7 months ago
This stuff may happen, I can&#x27;t say it is untrue, but I&#x27;ve never seen a manager terminate a decent to good programmer because they didn&#x27;t understand their workload.<p>The companies I&#x27;ve worked for spend a lot of time recruiting talent. If a manager wanted to can someone because they didn&#x27;t know that fixing bugs takes time, it would be the manager in front of a more senior manager demanding they explain their logic. Also, if you&#x27;ve managed programmers or SW projects for any amount of time, you&#x27;d understand why things take time.<p>Most folks I&#x27;ve seen get terminated is because the company is shrinking, or they are not performing or they are a jerk and&#x2F;or violating company policies.<p>My thoughts are do the best work you can, be nice to others and you&#x27;ll be fine as long as the company is making money. Don&#x27;t worry about &#x27;metrics&#x27;, people generally know who&#x27;s worth keeping based on more than that alone.
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laserDinosaur7 months ago
I once heard someone say a phrase which feels relevant to this article:<p>&quot;If you know nothing of what they are doing, you suspect them of doing nothing&quot;.<p>I&#x27;ve used this sentence to catch myself over the years where I&#x27;ve been quick to judge someone as doing nothing at their job or day-to-day, and then used it as motivation to (if possible) learn about what their days actually look like. I&#x27;m almost always finding out I just didn&#x27;t know enough about what they did.<p>As the article points out, this goes the other way too. It doesn&#x27;t matter how good you are at your job if nobody at a decision making level understands what you are doing.
sksxihve7 months ago
Keeping a paper trail of what you&#x27;ve done in the ticket, issues you came across, and questions you&#x27;ve had while working on something, even if you were able to answer them yourself is great advice that really separates junior from senior devs.
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ThrowawayB77 months ago
Yep, &quot;visibility&quot; and &quot;impact&quot; (oh, how I loathe those words) are everything in a competitive environment or when management is looking to make job cuts. If your manager can&#x27;t make the case as to why you are more important to the organization than your co-workers, your employment hangs by a thread.
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paxys7 months ago
In reality that coworker got fired because he was sending inappropriate DMs to all the young women in the organization.
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reviewmoreprs7 months ago
I recently quit a job, for a large number of reasons, but the one most relevant to this post was the topic of my github numbers. My manager gave me a &quot;needs improvement&quot; review, citing my &quot;bad numbers&quot; and comparing them to several of my teammates. Their numbers, to me, were laughably high.<p>I thought I was doing pretty good on PR reviews. I do one or two a day. I read the description, sometimes more than once. I read through the practical testing steps. I follow them, sometimes with a lot of setup required. I really make sure it does what it&#x27;s supposed to do. I read the code, line by line. Sometimes before I do the practical testing, sometimes after. But I read through the code, several times. I don&#x27;t know how you wouldn&#x27;t. Functions are calling other functions I haven&#x27;t gotten to yet. So I read through the code multiple times. I don&#x27;t just try to understand what it does, but why it does what it does. Is there a better way? Is this going to change or impact something else it should or shouldn&#x27;t? A good code review can easily take an hour or more, in my humble opinion. Two reviews a day on top of all my bs meetings and I still have my own shit to do. How does my teammate have triple my PR reviews for the quarter? Seems crazy.<p>One day I&#x27;m pair programming with one such teammate. We finish the task, I create a PR, write a description etc. I press the ready for review button and start to say, &quot;see you later bla bla&quot; and suddenly there&#x27;s an approval on the PR. It&#x27;s been 5 seconds, tops. It&#x27;s the other teammate with 10x code ninja numbers on the team. I remark that approval was pretty quick. My teammate forces a nervous sounding laugh. They work together ever day and seem pretty close, huh.<p>Anyway, after that, every morning after I made coffee and opened my laptop I&#x27;d spend 10-15 minutes just going down the list of open PRs on the project and approving them. I didn&#x27;t look at the code or even bother reading the description. I just approved them all. I also started opening PRs for stupid shit like minor typos in comments that I&#x27;m quite sure no one even reads.<p>My next review my manager said I had made some impressive improvements and gave me a &quot;meets expectations&quot;.<p>I&#x27;m looking for a job in a different industry now. I&#x27;m not out of software development, I just don&#x27;t think I can work on another e-commerce webapp company run by MBAs again. I think I&#x27;d rather be broke.
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RHSeeger7 months ago
&gt; If management is measuring pull request (PR) throughput, is it really so bad that developers start pushing through smaller PRs? God forbid we end up delivering value faster with fewer defects, better testing, and more thorough peer review.<p>This one bothered me. Because increased pull request (PR) throughput does not, in ANY way, imply &quot;fewer defects, better testing, and more thorough peer review&quot;. In fact, it probably implies the reverse; just writing the smallest amount of code you can to get it out the door, then coming back and adding to it later. Edge cases? Next PR. Automated tests? Next PR. Comments? Next PR. Maintainability? Next PR. Taking the time to make sure the feature you&#x27;re working on makes sense? That&#x27;s not a PR, skip it.<p>Measuring PR throughput is the same as measuring lines of code, effectively. Nothing about increasing either one of them implies adding real value.
irrational7 months ago
&gt; If your manager can’t see it, it doesn’t exist when performance review time rolls around.<p>I&#x27;ve become very jaded around performance reviews. A number of years ago, I worked my butt off putting in insane hours and being extremely productive. I knew that I deserved the highest performance rating possible. And in the review my manager agreed that that was what I deserved, but instead I got a successful rating - completely middle of the road average. I was shocked. My manager informed me that HR specified what percentage of each rating they were allowed to give out and that he had had to give the higher ratings to other employees for various reasons. Ever since then, I&#x27;ve done the bare minimum of work to get by. Why work my butt off to get a successful rating when I can do the bare minimum and get the same rating?
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Neywiny7 months ago
I&#x27;ve had great success with gitlab and it&#x27;s issue + mr (they use &quot;merge requests&quot; which tbh feels more appropriate) tracker. I make an issue ticket, dump all symptoms, logs, relevant configs, whatever into it. Then I make the MR, and put all my fix stuff in there. I like the separation of what the issue was vs what the fix was, while still keeping them linked. Really helps when somebody else does the other half.<p>ETA: none of this is as helpful as having my team and higher ups understand and appreciate what I do, though. That&#x27;s step 1. Or step 0 if you can feel that out in the interview.
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Joker_vD7 months ago
&gt; If management is measuring pull request (PR) throughput, is it really so bad that developers start pushing through smaller PRs?<p>So, just the previous week I&#x27;ve made 5 small PRs, all of them working on the same certain &quot;area&quot; of the code base but different pieces of it. Two of those PRs touched almost every single corner of that &quot;area&quot; (differently structured error reporting and differently formatted logging) another one had a rather sizeable refactoring and code movements between three major files of that code area, and as for the two remaining ones, one absolutely depended on the other but could not be done in the same PR because of how the JIRA issues were structured (i.e. &quot;PROJ-9004: Make it do foo&quot;, &quot;PROJ-9005: While foo from PROJ-9004 is happening, make it also do bar&quot;).<p>I&#x27;ve also made a decision to <i>not</i> order those PRs sequentially (i.e., base the next PR on a previous PR), and instead branched each PR from the dev trunk and went to work on them. As a result, I&#x27;ve increased the work I had to do approximately by 50% because of the merge conflicts I had to resolve. The reviews combined took about twice as much time as a single big review of all five changes in one PR would&#x27;ve probably taken. The QA took about five times as long since QA did full regression of that code area 5 times instead of 1 time; they&#x27;ve also almost missed an error in the 4th pull request because of all the repetitiveness.<p>All in all, 10&#x2F;10, recommend it if you need your coworkers to get lost in the maze of similarly-themed little branches, all alike.
svilen_dobrev7 months ago
reminds me of this:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ribbonfarm.com&#x2F;2009&#x2F;10&#x2F;07&#x2F;the-gervais-principle-or-the-office-according-to-the-office&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ribbonfarm.com&#x2F;2009&#x2F;10&#x2F;07&#x2F;the-gervais-principle-...</a><p>so we are the losers.. ah. Fine.
elzbardico7 months ago
Do those things if your current job require them, but at the same time have a plan to leave this hellhole as soon as possible. Those kind of places value more effort, or worse, the appearance of effort than the results. So, act accordingly, but leave as soon as you can.
disambiguation7 months ago
&gt;They have tools that will suck up data from literally every possible source available. And these tools are getting better every year. Tools like Jellyfish, CodeClimate, Quantive, and if your organization is old and rich enough, plenty of homegrown stuff. If you’re unfortunate enough to live in the United States, they can legally install a keylogger on your laptop.<p>This is why my next project is a programmable HID bluetooth device that simulates key strokes and mouse movement. Imagine hackertyper.com but from a device instead. Because your corporate surveillance metrics are bad and you should feel bad ;)
darioush7 months ago
Kind of sad that paperwork is more important than work. In my experience I don&#x27;t want to be in companies that have this culture, and I take my contributions where I don&#x27;t have to constantly prove myself.<p>In other words, if you are not excited to work with me, I am not working for you. Too much feudalism mindset in especially the US workforce is hampering wide-scale productivity.<p>If your work environment is not win-win and you&#x27;re managing optics to avoid getting fired, just go where your coding talents are valued &amp; be a happy person instead.
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wjholden7 months ago
Blogging and writing lots of white papers has become one of my favorite techniques for this in IT. Pretty much anytime something really interesting happens, I&#x27;ll spend some time carefully writing up a detailed explanation. I often find myself surprised by my own findings when I re-read them months later.
KotlinDude7 months ago
I can&#x27;t tell if he&#x27;s joking or not. I mean, it is a perfect plan for working at a dysfunctional company, but why would you want to?<p>That said, it&#x27;s actually very good advice if you want a promotion. Your manager needs hard data to take upstairs.
trentnix7 months ago
&gt; <i>Your manager...“I don’t [know how it goes]. I went to business school.”</i><p>There&#x27;s the problem.<p>Organizations whose leaders aren&#x27;t able to discern your actual value are going to be miserable places to work. You play their games or baffle them with BS. But you don&#x27;t get to attain any sort of authentic actualization.<p>...<p>Take my pessimistic commentary with a grain of salt. I&#x27;m job searching at the moment for a software manager role and the opportunity landscape is a wasteland of b2b insurance widget companies, usury companies, and AI dead-ends. If you want to build things that help real people, you may have to DIY.
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csours7 months ago
There&#x27;s a lot to be sad and mad about in this, but keeping an engineering journal or logbook is a great idea.
coding1237 months ago
You don&#x27;t get pulled into a meeting like that unless other devs were already pointing it out.
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deanCommie7 months ago
This is dumb.<p>We&#x27;ve gone from &quot;You don&#x27;t get promoted if you don&#x27;t show clear visibility for the things that you do&quot; to &quot;You can get fired for not showing clear visibility for the things that you do&quot;.<p>The first is true. The latter isn&#x27;t.<p>There are dystopian black swan events like the richest person in the world going on a ketamine binge and buying your company and dragging everyone into a meeting room with printouts of examples of your code.<p>Unless you&#x27;re involved in one of those, noone gets fired for doing a lot of things but not tracking them enough in JIRA to cover your notes.<p>Most teams know who on their team gets shit done and who doesn&#x27;t. They also know the ones who get things done without a clear track record of it. They are asked to help with every problem, and are constantly too busy to get their own stuff done because they&#x27;re helping everyone else with theirs. Yes, they struggle to get promoted, but they certainly don&#x27;t get fired.<p>The people who get fired are the ones who THINK they&#x27;re in that group, but they&#x27;re talkers, not do&#x27;ers. They get fired and everyone shrugs and goes &quot;oh well, anyway.&quot;<p>Then they go and write blog posts like this to help precisely the wrong type of person that needs this advice - cargo culting impact. Becoming allegiant to process for the sake of visibility.<p>It&#x27;ll certainly lead to more clutter and confusion in the world and in the tracking systems.<p>Might as well write blog posts about how to pad your line counts in your pull requests so that people looking at your Github graph at performance review time think you did more than you did.
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MichaelRo7 months ago
&gt;&gt;“Well I fixed that showstopper bug! And everyone agreed it had a big impact.”<p>&gt;&gt;“It looks like the fix was just one line of code.”<p>&gt;&gt;“Yeah but it took me two days to find that one line haha, you know how it goes.”<p>&gt;&gt;“I don’t. I went to business school.”<p>Was this article written by a LLM? Coze that&#x27;s the most made-up, cliché, unrealistic, middle school parody-level perception of how businesses operate.<p>Any reasonably large and old company with a software base will have a god-awful overengineered incomprehensible duct-tape wrapped ball of mud that needs constant pampering and costly maintenance. With most task being very much &quot;find the needle in the haystack&quot; type, with the needle being that &quot;one line&quot; indeed but the problem in finding it being, obviously, the haystack. And this &quot;needle finding&quot; being that one thing that totally and definitely all this AI hype can&#x27;t do shit about. Literally nothing, all those 700 billions burned into LLM training are absolutely orthogonal and useless with respect to the real problem maintenance and development of legacy software (that is most software) poses.
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steeeeeve7 months ago
Create a paper trail. Crank out tickets. Document everything. Hit the numbers.<p>No.<p>Add value. It&#x27;s not your job to quantify it. It&#x27;s not your job to create an understanding of what you do.<p>If your organization or your manager specifically does not recognize your contributions, be happy to move on.<p>If you get feedback that says &quot;we recognize your value, but we really need x&quot; that&#x27;s reprioritization. Respond appropriately. If documenting your value in that way prevents you from actually being valuable, be vocal about it. If it&#x27;s just a pain and you can still do your job, then suck up the pain like everybody else.<p>I&#x27;ve been in large engineering organizations. They want to quantify everyones value so that there&#x27;s &quot;fairness&quot;. BS. There is no large scale way to determine of a software engineer is good at his job or productive. Yes, some people have more opportunities to affect the bottom line than others. Yes, some people have easily quantifiable work. That&#x27;s how the world works.<p>Have they figured out a way to recognize and effectively incentivize good teachers? Not in my 51 years.<p>Have they figured out a way to recognize and effectively incentivize good CEOs? Nope.<p>What makes you think that we should be that easy to stack together and figure out?<p>I&#x27;m senior. I&#x27;m experienced. I&#x27;m valuable. I&#x27;m not always right, and I am not always valuable. In the end, I&#x27;ve had a good and healthy career focusing on the things I&#x27;m good at and the things I care about while letting other people figure out if I&#x27;m worth what I cost to keep around. Some of those people made good decisions and some bad ones. I still moved forward and my kids have always had food on the table. I say that&#x27;s enough.
dzonga7 months ago
the most unproductive places I have worked - ran according to what OP says and some of the comments etc. things that should take a week took 6 months due to bureacracy and everyone covering their ass and documenting details that don&#x27;t matter. because after all - they have to account for your time.<p>the most productive n best place I worked at - whether the work was delivered after 5pm or at 11pm - as long as it was quality and delivered that&#x27;s all that mattered.<p>thing is most software engineers don&#x27;t think like &quot;business-men&quot; and just as Jay-z said &quot;i&#x27;m a `business` man&quot; not a &quot;business-man&quot;. Be a business, then &quot;business-man&quot; then lastly a jira ticket pusher. Jira ticket pushers lives are miserable -- you get hazed over leetcode, you have to be pretend-nice to your fellow jira ticket pushers because of 360-review etc.<p>learn to look at other industries and see if they play those stupid games.
nine_zeros7 months ago
&gt; “Yeah but it took me two days to find that one line haha, you know how it goes.”<p>&gt; “I don’t. I went to business school.”<p>The conversation should end right here.<p>They don&#x27;t know what they are managing, why fixing things is unpredictable, and worst of all - they are communicating AFTER the fact, one month later - which is too late.<p>The manager needs to be fired for incompetence and incapability. But this is not how tech companies work - leading to all the management hate.
robin_reala7 months ago
DORA’s such a cult.<p>In other news, I’ve had pretty good luck when trying to build culture by getting people to measure both the act of practising the behaviours and the overall expected outcomes, but not setting specific targets on the teams. Measuring the outcomes for individual teams leads to “checklisting” rather than behavioural change.
binary1327 months ago
if only there were some type of way to operate a tech business that didn’t generate pathological incentives<p>oh well, back to my scaled agile workflow grooming planning meeting grooming meeting planning meeting
kunley7 months ago
Idiots who mismanage should be fired instead of people who provide the value.<p>Aaand, there are companies where it happens