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If you need the money, don't take the job

271 pointsby gus_leonel7 months ago

21 comments

ITB7 months ago
As someone that has been on the hiring side, I always prefer to build a full time team, even if that means paying for someone in my team to learn something new.<p>The part that consultants don’t talk about is that you have to pay them to learn your code &#x2F; company too. Nobody can just jump in and add value immediately. So you’re paying for onboarding hours, you’re paying for other employees to educate the consultant, and so on.<p>Likewise as an engineer, I think the most interesting projects and companies err towards primarily full time people. So if my goal is to work on the most interesting projects, I’d want to work full time.<p>A lot of consultants, for example someone helping with SOC2 compliance, is mostly copy pasting a large document with recommendations and moving some paragraphs around based on interviews with the team.<p>Not different from your average lawyer helping with an estate plan or will. The reality is that for many things you do want the cheapest lawyer, because the project is simple and repetitive. It’s the uneducated that pay more. So yes for a murder trial I want to pay a lot for a lawyer, but for small things I don’t, and you shouldn’t either. I simply don’t buy the analogy.<p>Finally, while consulting might be good for cash flow to hours-worked efficiency, it’s not clear it will make a person wealthier than other forms of income. I’ve met rich employees, founders, but not so much independent consultants.
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munchler7 months ago
I was a consultant for nearly a decade and far preferred fixed-price contracts, on the rare occasion we could get them.<p>When you are paid hourly, you work at the customer’s whim, and are often treated like an employee, or worse. You are essentially just a body for rent.<p>When you have a fixed price, you retain full autonomy. It’s up to you to decide the schedule, as long as you deliver on-time and within budget. The customer can’t change scope without your agreement. You feel like an actual human being.
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andai7 months ago
&gt;The more they spend, the greater the kudos they’ll get from upstairs, and the bigger their budget will be next year. After all, the division with the most expensive problems must be the most important one in the company.<p>I heard this is true in government, and it was presented as an example of why government has the wrong incentives, and private companies are much better: in a private company you get a bonus for being efficient and saving the company money, whereas in a government you get punished and they shrink your department. So I was surprised to see it presented here as a thing that happens in big companies too (but I&#x27;ve only worked with very small companies).
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cushpush7 months ago
&gt;So it’s about being reassuringly expensive.<p>&gt; It really is. You have to actually be good at what you’re doing too, of course, or the whole scheme falls apart. What the client’s money really buys, though, is that delightful feeling of making the thing somebody else’s problem. You know, we’ve turned it all over to a top-tier expert, and now we just don’t have to think about it anymore. The more that person charges, the more reassured the client feels.<p>Great advice.
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wouldbecouldbe7 months ago
Fixed pricing put lot of risk on the creator, but hourly pricing there is no risk. I prefer a proper balance of partially fixed, with a limit and out clauses, and then maintenance and further development on an hourly basis.
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Sytten7 months ago
The missing piece is retainers. They are IMO the cheat code of consultants because you can stack them and they are more stable. Being &quot;available&quot; has a price that way too many consultants don&#x27;t charge for.
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karaterobot7 months ago
&gt; What the client’s money really buys, though, is that delightful feeling of making the thing somebody else’s problem. You know, we’ve turned it all over to a top-tier expert, and now we just don’t have to think about it anymore. The more that person charges, the more reassured the client feels.<p>The way it was phrased to me was &quot;they&#x27;re paying for your confidence&quot;. Confidence that you can just come in and get the job done without too much trouble for them. That was pretty much the best advice I got as a consultant. His advice about doubling what you think your rate should be is also good, and when my company started doing that, we didn&#x27;t lose clients, instead we moved up-market and actually ended up working with better clients on much more interesting projects. I think both nuggets of wisdom are of a piece: act like you&#x27;re an expert that is paid commensurate with your success rate. Of course, you have to back it up, but isn&#x27;t that an implementation detail?
mrbombastic7 months ago
This all sounds very appealing on the consultant side but I am not very convinced on the buyer side. The argument that with hourly you can get rid of consultants faster might work on people with medium to large budgets but fixed pricing has the guarantee that at least at the end I have X or I don’t have to pay. People with small budgets often don’t even have the money to burn testing out a consultant with nothing to show for it.
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neilv7 months ago
&gt; <i>Clients who want a discount always turn out to be the worst clients, if you cave in to them. By offering you less, they’re really saying “We don’t think you’re worth what you’re asking.” You don’t want to work for someone who sees you that way.</i><p>Sometimes it&#x27;s the job of someone, like in Procurement, to try to get a better price from a vendor, regardless of what value the company thinks they&#x27;re getting. But unless they think you&#x27;re a commodity that they know they can get from another vendor, they can&#x27;t push back too much.<p>Other times (IME as an independent technical consultant), the executive&#x2F;manager hiring you, who has some sense of your value, has to make a case to someone else, about why your rate is worth it. This can be due to sticker shock, or can be something they have to justify on government contracts. So they might ask for help with this case, subtly or directly. Like putting together a bio, itemizing some credentials, or answering specific regulation-based questions to make sure you qualify for some grade or exemption. IME, that&#x27;s never been a negotiating tactic, and always worked out, getting the work with no discount of rate.<p>(Just anecdata; I don&#x27;t claim to be an expert at the business of consulting. I generally delivered very high value, like few people could, and some clients got a great deal, while I also turned down a lot of work where the client thought they had commodity needs. I could&#x27;ve addressed this by growing a consulting firm, hiring &quot;associates&quot;, who I supervised and mentored as a &quot;partner&quot;. But, rather than sell difficult-to-value billable hours from a distance, I&#x27;d prefer to build tech startups as a founder, where I can be holistic on an entire product&#x2F;business, and reap bigger rewards if successful.)
bryancoxwell7 months ago
The image at the top of this post led me to believe this would somehow be related to Golang?<p>Editing to add: I did enjoy it regardless. Informative and well written.
Winsaucerer7 months ago
&gt; A fixed-price deal sets up the wrong incentive structure. It’s in the client’s interest to agree the lowest price possible, and then to squeeze the consultant for every drop of juice they can get. So that sucks.<p>&gt;<p>&gt; On the other hand, it’s in the consultant’s interest to do the quickest and cheapest work necessary to get the client to sign off on the job. After that, they have zero incentive to fix any problems that arise. It’s just bad news all round.<p>I don&#x27;t agree with this at all. If you give a fixed price contract that includes bug fixes for a period, then your incentives are well aligned.<p>- You want to release robust code (to avoid warranty bug fixes), and your client wants that too.<p>- You want to finish quickly to get final payment sooner, and your client wants it finished quickly too.<p>- You set the price to what it needs to be and you&#x27;d be happy with, and if it&#x27;s too rich for the client, you just don&#x27;t take the job (does require you to be in a situation where you can reject underpriced projects, and requires you to be good at quoting).<p>- Client shouldn&#x27;t care if you took half the hours you estimated, and they don&#x27;t need to know. You both agreed to a price that works for you both, so ideally both sides have had a winning experience.<p>I have had experience with a client that tried to squeeze every drop of juice, and that sucked. They had no choice though because their budget was completely unmovable (came from grants). My thinking is that it&#x27;s probably best to prune such clients when you can, and stick with those whose expectations align well with your way of working. Not every client tries to squeeze every last feature out of you.<p>Hourly is easy for the seller, but it&#x27;s a sucky experience for the client. It builds distrust, and unlike fixed price, I think it&#x27;s actually hourly pricing that misaligns incentives. I also don&#x27;t like the social aspect. E.g., where people question how you&#x27;re spending your hours, or you have a chat about the weekend don&#x27;t know whether to make it clear that you&#x27;re not billing for that time, etc.
asah7 months ago
Fixed price works great if the client&#x27;s expectations are easy to meet and you&#x27;ve done the work many times before in a fraction of the time that others would take by the hour.
adamtaylor_137 months ago
I own a software studio that exclusively does fixed-price engagements. In fact, it’s a selling point to most of our clients.<p>Hourly-billing benefits no one.
cudgy7 months ago
“And, so they know what they’re in for, I’ll give them a careful and realistic estimate of how many hours it’ll take to deliver what they’ve asked for. That gives them the cost control they need, but doesn’t commit them to the whole sum right away.”<p>Do you get paid for estimating? To properly estimate takes a good deal of time.
osigurdson7 months ago
&gt;&gt; You know, take it slowly, invent problems and delays, anything to rack up a few extra hours<p>I think this is a potential moral hazard with agile &#x2F; scrum &#x2F; mob programming, etc. It can have a tendency to minimize risk for the consultancy while maximizing billable hours.
Thorrez7 months ago
&gt;Unless you really can’t survive without that client, don’t take them on. Jerry Weinberg also says “If you need the money, don’t take the job.”<p>Don&#x27;t those 2 sentences contradict each other?
lionelholt7 months ago
If my 2002 Land Rover Discovery II is vintage enough, I will gladly pay you to tinker with it, the next time you&#x27;re in Oregon USA that is!
punduk7 months ago
That&#x27;s exactly how companies that sell consulting work. No bargaining, you have to pay millions of dollars for enterprise software nonsense.
throwaway987977 months ago
meh<p>sometimes fixed pricing makes sense<p>i’ve paid fixed pricing and i’ve taken fixed pricing it depends on the situation<p>my favorite way to charge is on a per month basis<p>if they start to abuse you, push back, if you can’t or they are good at manipulation leave<p>also different people have different preferences for some the tracking of hours is painful, for others it’s comforting and <i>fair</i><p>meet the client or the consultant where they are at
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anovikov7 months ago
TL;DR: If money is an object for a client, look for another client.
pathfindershiva7 months ago
So you wrote the horrible career as book and pivoted to writing career :P