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Patent troll stalks travel site Hipmunk

188 pointsby chewymousealmost 13 years ago

19 comments

grellasalmost 13 years ago
A few thoughts:<p>1. The complaint here presents Hipmunk as the developer of an innovative travel search engine that offers something great that no one has ever offered and, hence, as a rising star in its market. It contrasts this with i2z Technology, LLC, - a Marshall, Texas shell entity run by a Silicon Valley lawyer - that invented nothing through its own efforts, that took an assignment of a soon-to-expire 1992 patent in July, 2011, that sued a score of mostly-large companies in the fall of 2011 for allegedly infringing that patent, and that made a letter demand on Hipmunk to take a license from it or be immediately sued. It notes, very pointedly, that the innovation done by Hipmunk from which so many people stand to benefit has <i>no connection whatever</i> with the patent upon which i2z threatens to sue. It further notes that, on the face of it, the primary claim of the patent in issue deals with two-window configurations not even used by Hipmunk. And it identifies prior art that Hipmunk claims invalidates the patent. Finally, the complaint states that this demand came to Hipmunk only after it had raised significant VC funding for the purpose of continuing to grow and to innovate and, rather than use these funds to pay for a worthless "license," it has instead elected to fight to expose this for the bogus claim that it is.<p>2. The themes of the complaint are almost a template for what is wrong with U.S. software patents at their worst. Patents are supposed to protect and encourage innovation. They are supposed to take things that would otherwise remain secret and get inventors to disclose this secret know-how so that it can be absorbed into an ever-broadening public pool of knowledge for society's benefit and, as a trade-off, give the inventor a limited monopoly barring all others from using the invention for a limited time even if those others developed it entirely independently of the efforts of the inventor. To get this monopoly protection, the innovation has to be truly inventive and not such that those skilled in the relevant art would see it as obvious in light of prior art; and it must be practical and useful as applied to real-world activities and cannot be so abstract and vague that it amounts to an idea, a law of nature, or a mere concept. To benefit society, the monopoly protection must extend to a point deemed reasonable for rewarding the inventor but not so long as to give him a windfall at the longer-term expense of others. All of these concepts applied beautifully to an industrial age where inventions tended to be tied to heavy machinery or to other innovation tied to long and expensive development cycles and where the resulting inventions were discrete and significant departures from the analog-style forms of prior art that preceded them.<p>3. Digital technology, when first deployed, tended to fit within the historical patterns but not so with software. When it comes to software development, development cycles have become extremely rapid. The ability, or even the inventor's desire, to keep innovation secret and undisclosed has severely contracted and, in a sense, much of what is innovative in software is an open book, with a whole universe of developers drawing from the same or similar sources and deriving very similar outcomes without reference to one another's work. Change comes quickly and incrementally and knowledge of that change rapidly becomes widespread. Often such changes, when reduced to practice, can only be described in vague ways that might be applied in all sorts of surprising ways to future incremental changes and, hence, the monopoly rights tied to such vagaries hang like a menacing cloud over anything that anybody might do in those areas. And even things that truly might be classified as inventive in light of prior art can be seen as being of very limited value in the broader swirl of rapid technological change within even a few years of the time they are given patent protection and hence giving every appearance of society's having given the inventor a 20-year windfall over what should instead have been incremental stuff worthy of 3-year protection at most. Now add to the mix an underfunded and besieged patent office whose examiners are not particularly qualified to make consistent, astute judgments about innovation involving software and who are effectively under quota-pressure to keep the patent grants moving along in the system - add further an enforcement system that imposes multi-million dollar costs upon those who seek to enforce their patents and also upon those who seek to defend against claims of infringement and that produces widely variable results tied to a jury system in which those passing the ultimate judgment can easily be confused and bamboozled in evaluating technical claims - add further that the appellate review level concerning patents has been placed in the hands of a specialized court having exceedingly close and sympathetic ties with the patent bar and with the idea of broad-based patent enforcement remedies (including potentially crippling injunctions) - add further that a specialized judicial district in a backwater Texas area routinely provides favorable treatment for patent claimants even when claims are weak or frivolous - add further that patent rights, being freely assignable, can be gathered in the hands of shell entities having no connection with any form of innovation but being intimately tied to a system whose purpose is to play the enforcement system to its maximum value in order to force parties to pay up or get swept into a litigation mess - yes, added all together, this becomes one lethal brew whose poisons now maim or kill, rather than encourage, the innovation that the patent system was designed to foster.<p>4. I am by no means hostile to IP rights generally. These can and do protect various forms of creative effort in ways that can benefit society. Still, IP rights when abused are the worst form of perverseness in a technologically-driven society and can and do damage society in serious ways. You wind up with those who have not innovated a day in their lives making debilitating demands on those engaged in brilliant innovation in furtherance of a cynical shake-down process that amounts to a toll on innovation with no offsetting benefits. The patent system has served the U.S. well for over 200 years. Its structure was put in place with the pace and methods of innovation fostered by the industrial revolution. That structure did not envision digital technology as embodied in software and has in the past 20 years become corrupted. It is time for a rethinking of what it takes in the patent area to encourage and protect software innovation. The current system, as exemplified in the Hipmunk case, is absurdly broken.
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robomartinalmost 13 years ago
I've proposed this a couple of times on HN. I think the solution to these issues is for someone of note to start an organization dedicated to fighting patent troll cases. To be considered for protection you have to become a member and pay annual dues. Such an organization could potentially raise hundreds of millions of dollars and have top-notch legal horsepower available.<p>It's mission would be to defend members and, in all cases, seek the invalidation of the patents in question.<p>If something like that existed, trolls would know that the potential consequence of trying to enforce bullshit patents would be huge financial losses and the potential invalidation of their bullshit patents. How many trolls would go up against an organization with 10, 20, 50 or 100 million dollars available to take-on a case?<p>I am saddened to say that it is an arms race. Given that, true entrepreneurs and startups need bigger guns. It would behoove VC's and virtually all entrepreneurs and startups to help fund and support such an entity. It would be like patent reform approached in a very different way. Knowing that the "nuclear option" is on the table could very well bring reason to a landscape that is simply full of land-mines.<p>There would have to be a mechanism through which companies of a certain size (Google, Apple, etc.) are excluded from receiving free services from this organization. They would, however, be expected to support it with generous donations. If the large players in the tech would each donated ten million dollars a year (a rounding error in their revenue stream) to such an entity, the organization could easily raise hundreds of millions in no time at all.
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spezalmost 13 years ago
It's a stupid claim, and we're taking the most agressive action we can against it, which in this case means suing them first.
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opendnsalmost 13 years ago
We've taken the same approach. Suing first. The problem is that all you've done is declare venue. You'll still need to settle because not settling will cost you at least $1mm to fight this in court. And if you win, and find yourself not to be infringing, they can just find another patent and start the process all over again. You'll never get your legal fees back. That's not how patent suits work. That's why it's such a scam.<p>I'd just settle and view it as a tax on innovation while working on changing the larger patent system.
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astrodustalmost 13 years ago
Although I'm entirely opposed to patents, a way to limit the exposure of companies to patent trolls if if these trolls need to quantify their "damages" in terms of lost sales or lost opportunities. If they're not actively developing products, that is certainly going to be hard to prove.
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philalmost 13 years ago
This is a 1994 patent. Looks like it should be expiring in Nov. Better hurry up with that suit, patent troll!
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arturadibalmost 13 years ago
I am getting on a plane and won't have internet access for days, but can someone please start a site like IAmATroll.com or whatever and compile a list - hopefully with profile pictures - of patent trollers, and who they're suing. I'd be happy to help promote and maintain it when I'm back.<p>If we can't win legally, let's at least try a grassroots approach. Perhaps shame will have <i>some</i> effect on these people.
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randomfoolalmost 13 years ago
I hate patents, but sometimes I wish that judges would just say that yes, the software does infringe, but that the patent represents one itsy bitsy tiny part of what's needed to make a successful product. Then award the patent holder what their patent is worth- $1.<p>I often think that the issue isn't so much the patents, but the absurd amounts of money people are able to extract from them- the money is in no way representative of the importance of the invention.
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kinkoraalmost 13 years ago
The problem with the current patent system is that it treats all patents from various industries (software, manufacturing, biology, chemistry, science, business, etc) exactly the same across the board and applies the exact same rules to all of them. While an overhaul of the whole patent ecosystem is needed and long overdue, I think the quickest/easiest way we can get rid of majority of patent trolls is to start having different rules for different categories of patents.<p>A couple of examples I can think of:<p>1. A patent with a tangible product will last for 20 years but a software patent should only last for no more than 5 years.<p>2. A medical methodology process can only be patented by an individual/company after showing evidence of the research put into it by said individual/company where else a software methodology process can only be patented if the patent holder is actually utilizing the patent as part of their business.<p>3. Manufacturing patents can be granted without actually showing the actual real-life process (and obviously it needs to be a novel approach and has no prior art) but all software patents need to be developed and attached a demo of the software patent in action (not just pictures and descriptions) as part of the requirement for the patent to be granted.<p>What do you guys think? I believe setting different rules for different categories will quickly elevate majority of our tech patent woes.
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cftalmost 13 years ago
It's a very dangerous precedent for the whole startup ecosystem. Much like a venture capitalist, the troll is trying to get a share of a growing stratup, except that it's using racketeering, rather than an investment as its tactics. This needs to be stopped decisively, ideally adding the troll to vexatious litigant list, so that it cannot racketeer again with another patent<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vexatious_litigation" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vexatious_litigation</a><p><a href="http://www.courts.ca.gov/12272.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.courts.ca.gov/12272.htm</a>
sneakalmost 13 years ago
Did anyone else cringe at Hipmunk's use of the phrase "hard-earned venture capital"?
droithommealmost 13 years ago
Arg, I just read the 1992 era patent and I am not sure what exactly the novel part of it is. Possibly it claims to patent a specific implementation of model-view-controller. This stuff is written so obtusely it's hard to imagine what specific claims of the things it describes is it really patenting. Disturbing is the large number of other patents that reference it. No doubt anything we do in the course of developing software violates some claim made in some patent somewhere that few have even heard of.
wpietrialmost 13 years ago
I can only hope that VCs are clubbing together to give patent trolls a good thrashing. Partly through lobbying; Congress should be sympathetic to innovation and job creation, especially during a downturn. And partly through a vigorous collective defense. Patent trolls turn their extorted money into more patents and more lawsuits. Like any parasite, the smart approach is to kill them early.
RedwoodCityalmost 13 years ago
The last patent reform bill really did nothing. Why can't congress pass useful bills.
kn0thingalmost 13 years ago
Relevant: <a href="http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/en/drew_curtis_how_i_beat_a_patent_troll.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/en/drew_curtis_how_i_beat_a_pa...</a>
rhizomealmost 13 years ago
One can only hope that the previous licensees included a clawback-if-invalidated clause in their agreements.
mapsteralmost 13 years ago
Trolls likely will settle out of court. I hope Hipmunk doesn't fall for this trap either.
BryanB55almost 13 years ago
Maybe we should all message this guy on linkedin and tell him what a scumbag he is.. Just in case he doesn't already know.<p>I really wish more people would spend more time doing something valuable in the world.
Fandoalmost 13 years ago
i2z Technology = Loser