A career-ending mistake

This approach to careers fails to take into account that we inherently change as people.<p>In periods of ones life other things matters - maybe it is taking an education, starting a family, etc.<p>Other periods work matter.<p>It should be entirely fine to switch it on and off and change tracks throughout life - and in my view it seems like it is!<p>To reach a peak it takes roughly 10 years, but these 10 years can be started at 40 when your kids does not wear diapers anymore.

Here&#x27;s the thing about the average career in big tech: <i>five years after you leave, almost no one will remember you were there</i>. Most of your old team mates will leave for other other jobs. Your code will get refactored or rewritten. Docs will be superseded, then lost in some CMS migration. Before long, it will be as if you have never worked there.<p>I know it sounds preposterous, but ask anyone over the age of 55 or 60: except for folks who built their own companies or made truly exceptional contributions to their field, most will say that hobbies, friends, and family mattered a lot more.<p>So, there is this fundamental contradiction in this article: you can engineer a very neat career, but for most techies, the most useful goal is to <i>make money fast in a way that doesn&#x27;t drain your life energy</i>. And most of the time, this means responding to opportunities, not sticking to your guns. For example, a lifetime IC job may be ultimately worth less than a management job that gets you to VP level in a decade. You don&#x27;t need to dream about being a manager; you just need to be reasonably good at it.

This article assumes a lot more self-determinism than is available in practice to most people.<p>Beyond that many of us have been running on fumes for years, I can&#x27;t lose ten extra hours every week away from seeing my family, so I can up-skill for a new variation on the same career with ultimately the same bull.

&quot;What do you want to be?&quot; is a question we have all constantly been asked since middle school by parents, teachers, career counsellors, professors, recruiters, mentors, managers, HR and lots of other well meaning souls. My answer is the same at 40 as it was at 14 – I don&#x27;t know. And you know what? I&#x27;ve been fine.<p>I have worked at some great companies, and some not so great ones. A couple FAANGs as well as a 20-person startup and everything in between. I have been part of some fantastic product teams and a fair number of disasters. I have been a code monkey, an architect, a tech lead, a staff engineer, a manager, a director...and now know that none of these fancy titles really mean anything. And throughout all this I have managed to put a decent chunk of money in the bank.<p>Most would consider my career to be pretty successful. I like to say that I don&#x27;t really have a career but simply jump from one project to the next and one opportunity to the next depending on how the wind is blowing. Never once have I had any semblance of a &quot;plan&quot; or a &quot;goal&quot;. And despite what all the authority figures in your life will tell you, that is a perfectly fine way to live and be happy.

Maybe I am a pessimist but I really don&#x27;t believe you can plan for 20y in the future especially in the tech sector. People fail to realize that we live in a world that changes not in a linear fashion but rather exponential. For all we know in 10y we will only need 1&#x2F;5 of the coders we have and IC won&#x27;t be viable, who knows.

It&#x27;s not true that in all companies you have to chose between tech and management. It&#x27;s true in some companies. But at many companies lead and director roles are very hands on.<p>At Stream a lead is 80% technical, a director roughly 50% sometimes more. And even VPs and up are still somewhat technical.<p>I think the idea of management without technical excellence track is just misguided. Small teams, technical excellence, and leaders who can do the work is the right way.

I never intended to have a career as a programmer. I planned to work for two years, save a bit of money, and get a PhD in Chemistry. Forty years later I retired as a programmer. Every step was something new, I had 15 different employers (plus myself for 9 years starting two little companies). There was never a plan beyond finding a better&#x2F;different&#x2F;less irritating job, and constantly improving what I could do. I never gave any thought to what I wanted to end my career on. It actually ended entirely as my decision, I still was at the top of my ability, and my employer was happy to pay me, but I was tired of working.<p>While planning might work for some people, having a more short term view can work for others. The only thing I could ever control was what I was able to do, and when I was ready to move on. There are many optimizations available to succeed in life; not all are obvious.

As someone who has fallen into this trap myself, I feel like many people tend to just go with the flow and then end up in a place they don&#x27;t like doing work they don&#x27;t enjoy, with no idea how to get out. This has inspired me to approach my manager about possibly stepping down from my role into a more IC role, or possibly swapping jobs, as I realized a Senior IC is where I want to be

I feel the discussion needs to be opened up to other ends of careers.<p>My favorite career end that I&#x27;m naturally working towards to is the ability to jop hob to different roles without having prior experience. One way to do that is to be able to show in an interview that you have transferable skills and learn crazy fast. Another facet of that is that you need to identify companies that are open to this sort of thing.<p>Another career end is to become rich and not work. It&#x27;s not achievable for everyone of course. But it is a type of career end.<p>Other career ends that one becomes disabled and live on disability checks or welfare. To me, it seems that this is a career end that people want to avoid.<p>I feel digital nomads aren&#x27;t really represented in this career end. You could put it under independence, but the characterization of independence in this blog post was quite narrow which is why I feel the need to state it explicitly. Some people are in their career end when they can just work remote 4 days and have a decent salary.<p>There are many more career ends, what could you come up with?

The end of my career is uncertain. My entire career has been uncertain. Not completely unplanned, but rather has progressed in ways I could never have predicted.<p>I had luck and opportunity to ride the cloud computing wave and it carried me into software development and distributed analytics systems, from a B.A degree in business. 20 years of lateral moves up to Sr. Level, but never outside of IC, yet.<p>I daydream about turning my DIY skills into some type of construction trades business while I am physically able. Or testing the waters with software consulting.<p>Manager role is not appealing working for someone else&#x27;s company although just like construction trades, being an apprentice in that role is probably going to be the best way to learn it. I dread the meetings and politics and employee reviews. But if I really want to run my own business, at some my point I may need to be a manager on someone else&#x27;s payroll. Even if just for a year.

&gt; Lao Tzu teaches: the best fighter is never angry. More important than the blow is knowing when to strike<p>Seems like a fake citation <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.taoistic.com&#x2F;fake-laotzu-quotes&#x2F;fake-laotzu-quote-The_best_fighter_is_never_angry.htm" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.taoistic.com&#x2F;fake-laotzu-quotes&#x2F;fake-laotzu-quot...</a>

&gt; Most managers are terrible.<p>A sweeping statement indeed, but it does reflect my experience too.<p>Perhaps it&#x27;s my ingrained deference to authority - when I start a new position I tend to believe that my manager has my best interests at heart. This is a mistake and I now believe it&#x27;s better to maintain a kind of defensive attitude and to always be assertive in establishing, and if necessary negotiating, the responsibilities and expectations of your role and your relationship with the manager.<p>This may not necessarily be a personal failing on their part, this may just be a consequence of the operational management system you both work within.

Joke&#x27;s on them. I have a job, not a career.

Plans are worthless, but planning is everything.<p>It&#x27;s not entirely clear that much of this field will look the same in five years, but still, I think doing the thinking and the planning for the sake of mapping out the route is important.<p>If only to inform you that no, you don&#x27;t want any of those routes.<p>(I did this planning and ended up in academia&#x2F;microbiology, as a product designer, for better or worse but it&#x27;s been fun)

I have found that I can&#x27;t actually plan with much certainty, and, quite often, the very <i>worst</i> thing that can happen, is that Everything Goes As Planned.<p>I have found utility in &quot;overengineering&quot; my life. Not just the tech I do, but in most things, and creating small, robust, high-Quality, and adaptable structures. Things that can be rearranged, and repurposed, <i>when</i> (not &quot;if&quot;) the context&#x2F;paradigm changes.<p>I started maxing out my retirement in 1990, and that&#x27;s a good thing, because, in 2017, when I finally started looking for work, I was surprised (and disgusted) to find that no one wants to hire us olds. I wasn&#x27;t <i>planning</i> to retire, but I wasn&#x27;t consulted by Reality.<p>In my work, I have found utility in writing in modular fashion, and making every module as high-Quality as possible. I&#x27;ve had to toss quite a few, and had to do substantial refactoring on some, but, for the most part, they have served me very well, and continue to do so, to this day.

&gt; If you love what you’re doing now and don’t ever want to change jobs, great: you’ve reached the end of your career<p>Guess I&#x27;m there. I don&#x27;t know how common my mindset is around here, but I have a relatively low stress, unexciting remote job in web dev. It&#x27;s not glamorous or particularly interesting, but it pays well and offers the flexibility for me to travel a lot&#x2F;spend time with loved ones and have extra mental energy for my hobbies. Well worth the tradeoff for me personally - I have no particular impetus to climb the corporate ladder when I already make six figures in a low cost of living area.

Yes, I do find that a lot of people get caught in whatever race they started running in the beginning of their careers and don&#x27;t care to stop for a bit and try retrospecting&#x2F;introspecting.<p>I recently took a break from work with the intention of working on some side projects and also thinking about what it is I like to do (somewhat along the lines mentioned in the article - do I want to stay on my current trajectory and try to hit senior IC, management etc). I am only about 6 years into my career, perhaps a bit early for a sabbatical but I felt this was the right time for it. I had a pretty good reputation in my job and I could have done the thinking while on the job, yet I felt I couldn&#x27;t. I am helped by not having any financial concerns or other responsibilities.<p>I am not sure what I expect to gain from this though most people assume that either I must be starting my own business or chilling at home although neither is true. I took care to put some structure into it so I don&#x27;t while away the time scrolling HN. I don&#x27;t think I will get a sudden epiphany but feel if I put in some hours without any external constraints, something might happen. The worst that could happen is that I have to write off this time and go back to running the race in my IC track.

Like the article, not fan of the title. I understand it&#x27;s supposed to be catchy, but it is just not accurate. Planning for the next phase of your career would be better. Planning of the end of the career is a very valid topic, but it&#x27;s a different one (planning for retirement).

&gt; <i>You probably won’t get to choose what to work on, and you may not agree with all the decisions of the powers that be. In fact, it’s practically certain you won’t. After all, you know more about the subject matter than they do.</i><p>Wait a minute if the people most suited to make a decision are overridden by people less competent than them (they have to be most of the time, given the different focus of their career), that&#x27;s kind of a problem, isn&#x27;t it? Is there any way to avoid such structural failures?

Does someone know how to find good IC coaches that can mentor a mid-level(ish) engineer 8+ YoE? I have issues with rejection and I am working on them.<p>I am a generalist, and I have been struggling with how to find opportunities myself by connecting to people 1:1 and discussing first hand the nature of the problem and whether I can help them with it. I imagine a coach help me typically with forming a coherent career statement and pointers on how to have these conversation.

I prefer the journey. I don’t want to “be” independent, I want to “become” independent. The former is winning the lottery, the latter is a long and difficult path.

I have advised multiple people in their 50s that they are no longer seeking a position, they are looking for a decent paying job.<p>Career progression should be dominated by FIRE...

One thing I didn&#x27;t anticipate when younger is the extent that other people will prevent your advancement. Whether by being in the way, *isms - a.k.a. refusing to hire you for positions you&#x27;d be great at, or very common today... the majority of companies that no longer train or encourage career development. Because you might leave?<p>Advancement seems to be lot of outmaneuvering these folks.

The mistake I see people make it _not_ ending their career out of narcissism, pride, ego, etc.<p>I am not a religious person but it is good to remember you will die. You should have some better stuff to put on your tombstone than your job title.<p>People aren&#x27;t going to care who you were in 100 years and people aren&#x27;t going to remember you in 1000 years. Your tombstone will crumble in the dirt.<p>Spend time with people you love, spend time with your family and friends. Find meaning without economic strings attached.

I like this authors frame of reference. Independence is definitely my goal.<p>I want to get to a point where I can start an independent EE consultancy, then slowly get more and more selective about my clientele, until I choose to stop working.

I am curious about how he accidentally shut down a nuclear reactor.

2022; previous discussion: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=30428602">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=30428602</a>

On the contrary, it&#x27;s those who can&#x27;t write code that become managers. They&#x27;re not even good enough to ascend to the truly parasitic executive class.

&gt; career ending mistake<p>&gt; the time I inadvertently shut down one of Britain’s nuclear power stations<p>There is a scram joke in there somewhere ;)

“Managing people is hard; much harder than programming. Computers just do what you tell them, whether that’s right or wrong (usually wrong). Anyone can get good at programming, if they’re willing to put in enough time and effort. I’m not sure anyone can get good at managing, and most don’t. Most managers are terrible.<p>That’s quite a sweeping statement, I know. (Prove me wrong, managers, prove me wrong.) But, really, would a car mechanic last long in the job if they couldn’t fit a tyre, or change a spark plug? Would a doctor succeed if they regularly amputated the wrong leg? We would hope not. But many managers are just as incompetent, in their own field, and yet they seem to get away with it.”<p>The fact that most managers are terrible doesn’t really prove managing is hard. in fact you could make a case it proves the opposite, the fact that most managers are terrible shows that management is easy, at least if we are talking about what it takes to keep your job.<p>FWIW I would agree with the point that being a good manager is hard but I don’t think this argument holds water.

What a useful, well written article. Thanks for sharing.

Great article and thought provoking.<p>&gt; and unlike your colleagues in management, you won’t spend all day in meetings.<p>The author will be surprised. In a bureaucratic company like Google, even an E6 can spend all their time having meetings and writing docs, to the point that they even get rusty at drawing boxes.<p>&gt; If you want to reach this level, you’ll need to become a master of your chosen craft<p>One thing that worries me is that mastery also means specialization, and specialization is the most risky when there&#x27;s a paradigm shift. My cope is to be specialized in a category. For instance, be a specialist in distributed systems instead of being a master of building Spring-boot services. That said, even that type of specialization is not immune to paradigm shift. Case in point, scaling out a service is really not that hard these days compared to 10 years ago.

Good read