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AI Stole the Joy of Programming

57 pointsby svalee6 months ago

19 comments

friggeri6 months ago
I&#x27;ve had the absolute opposite experience, AI has brought back a lot of the joy of programming and building products for me.<p>I&#x27;ve been using Cursor extensively these past few months, for anything ranging from scaffolding to complex UIs. The trick, I&#x27;ve found, is to treat the AI like I would work with a junior engineer, giving in concrete detailed tasks to accomplish, breaking the problem down myself into manageable chunks. Here are two examples of little word games I&#x27;ve made, each of them took all in all a couple of days to ideate, design and build.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;7x7.game" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;7x7.game</a> You&#x27;re given a grid and you need to make as many words as possible, you can only use the letters in the bottom row. There&#x27;s complex state management, undo, persistent stats, light&#x2F;dark modes, animations. About 80-90% of the code was generated and then manually tweaked&#x2F;refactored.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;vwls.game" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;vwls.game</a> Given 4 consonants, you have to generate as many words as possible. This is heavily inspired by Spelling Bee, but with a slightly different game mechanic. One of the challenges was that not all &quot;valid&quot; words are fun, there are a lot of obscure&#x2F;technical&#x2F;obsolete words in the dictionary, I used Claude&#x27;s batch API to filter down the dictionary to words that are commonly known. I then used cursor to generate the code for the UI, with some manual refactoring.<p>In both cases, having the AI generate the code enabled me to focus on designing the games, both visually and from an interaction perspective. I also <i>chose</i> to manually code some parts myself, because these were fun.<p>At the end of the day, tools are tools, you can use them however you like, you just need to figure out how they fit in your workflow.
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andix6 months ago
I don&#x27;t agree. Copilot&#x2F;etc is kind of worthless for me, it creates so many issues that I&#x27;ve never bothered to work with it.<p>AI is awesome for solving issues, asking it questions about code, asking for possible solutions. But maybe I&#x27;m just fast at writing code that actually solves the problem, so I don&#x27;t need an AI to code for me.
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neuronet6 months ago
If I were a trained professional software engineer who found joy in writing tests and TDD, maybe I&#x27;d feel differently, but I write software to help with basic scientific analysis, and ChatGPT has been an absolute game changer for writing tests.<p>I personally find writing tests to be soul-crushing, boring, work. I never really learned it properly, and when I have a well-documented function, CGPT typically does a decent job making a rough draft. I often have to work on the test function, fix some things, but the final product is way better than the PoS I would have put together: my guess is it has saved me hundreds of hours. I have developed a decent understanding of fixtures, mocking, sharing fixtures across modules, etc, all with the help of ChatGPT. It &quot;understands&quot; my project and how it is organized, and makes suggestions based on this understanding. Yes, it sometimes gets stuck in local minima and I have to kick it out, which can be frustrating. But even that is a learning process, as I often go to SO or other people&#x27;s code bases to find good examples, and feed them to ChatGPT to get it unstuck.<p>It&#x27;s like the ultimate rubber duck paired programming partner. I tell it what I&#x27;m working on, and that&#x27;s intrinsically helpful. But the rubber duck has really good feedback, because it has read the entire internet.<p>It&#x27;s made writing tests for my code fun, for the first time ever.<p>The people I know personally who refuse to use CGPT are typically very good software developers, somewhat arrogant and have a chip on their shoulders, and honestly I think in 20 years we&#x27;ll look back at them like people who thought the internet was a passing phase in the mid 1990s. I also think many of them don&#x27;t understand how LLMs work, and how powerful they can be when prompted correctly
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planb6 months ago
For me, it’s quite the opposite—it brought back the joy of programming.<p>There are thousands of weather apps in the App Store, but none display rain data exactly the way I’d like to see it. That’s why I’ve long considered writing my own home screen widget to show it exactly as I want.<p>I hadn’t developed iPhone apps in a few years, so I had no experience with SwiftUI, the Swift Graph framework, or creating widgets. Just two years ago, building an app with a widget from scratch would have taken me a week — to read tutorials, navigate the necessary documentation, get started and solve my beginner bugs. Because of that time investment, I always hesitated to even begin.<p>Now, I’ve created exactly what I wanted in a single afternoon after work, with the help of AI. To be honest, GitHub Copilot isn’t very helpful for this, though it does speed up repetitive typing. However, using ChatGPT to scaffold the graph code—with me tweaking the parameters—made the process much faster. Since they added search functionality, there’s minimal &quot;hallucination&quot; of APIs, allowing for quick iterations and bringing back that “joy of programming” feeling.
Freak_NL6 months ago
&#x27;AI Stole the Joy of Programming&#x27; is not quite the title that blog post has.
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taylodl6 months ago
When you program for a living, you want the fastest path to creating the best code conforming to your metric of &quot;best.&quot; Copilot may or may not be able to get you there, YMMV as they say.<p>When you program for a hobby, you oftentimes seek to enjoy the route as much or more than reaching the destination. Copilot would be a distraction and an annoyance in this case - unless you&#x27;re genuinely stuck and then you can use Copilot as a mentor.<p>It all depends on your context and what you&#x27;re trying to do.
bowsamic6 months ago
I&#x27;ve taken the simple solution: if I want to enjoy programming for programming&#x27;s sake, I turn copilot off. If I want to be careful and understand the problem and its solution in detail, I turn copilot off. If I simply want to get a toy project done and don&#x27;t care at all about the implementation process, I might leave it on.<p>I&#x27;ve had an absolutely magical experience with copilot though. I honestly find it a bit strange when others say it has just been bad for them
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KaoruAoiShiho6 months ago
It&#x27;s just the start, it&#x27;s about to steal the joy of everything in life pretty soon.
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taosx6 months ago
When we&#x27;re building something, we don&#x27;t have all the specs upfront (unless it&#x27;s simple). I&#x27;m learning and adapting as I write more of the project, and at some points I may backtrack or start from scratch. For projects where you have the whole code upfront, I guess you could pass that to an LLM (maybe).<p>The way I found most success using LLMs is as a partner to ping-pong ideas, to come up with code design, algorithms, and data structures that would fit a particular scenario. Then I&#x27;m ignoring its code and writing it to fit the project. The trick is to use the randomness combined with the vast array of information it holds to your advantage - like a supercharged Google.<p>Regarding my joy of programming, for me it&#x27;s not even close. I get my joy from the project as a whole, not from snippets of code sprinkled around (sometimes I wish it could - I have hundreds of projects I would like to tackle but they&#x27;re not worth my time). The only thing I worry about is that the next version would not be accessible to the public or they would cost exorbitant amounts.<p>edit: for the way I&#x27;m using LLMs I found the approach taken by Zed editor to be the best, really recommend it&#x27;s buffer, easy to copy-p, modify and search (it would be nice to also have divergence from a chat, hopefully in the future)
JohnFen6 months ago
This is one of the reasons why I don&#x27;t use genAI for programming purposes. It increases the need to review and correct code I didn&#x27;t write, which increases the amount of work that I don&#x27;t enjoy doing.
tylerchilds6 months ago
the start:<p>ai is a junior engineer you as a senior engineer can coach<p>the end:<p>the ai is a senior engineer with a half finished problem you can polish as a junior engineer
justlikereddit6 months ago
Programming stole the joy of programming.<p>My experience is that like so much else there&#x27;s an expiry date on the joyful coding.<p>I gave it another chance with AI but AI is too incompetent, it&#x27;s more of a creative intern that does badly speed reports than a competent replacement for painstakingly reading documentations and googling.
k3vinw6 months ago
Interesting example. As programming languages and tooling such as static analysis become more and more advanced I would think memory leaks or mismanagement of memory is going to become a thing of the past. So I would argue that one way or another this was bound to happen.
jdefr896 months ago
Damn... I wish I could say this wasn&#x27;t true. Been trying to lie and say it hasn&#x27;t but it absolutely has made programming less enjoyable by far... I been trying to convince myself other wise but I am just lying to myself.
ksymph6 months ago
Is this tongue-in-cheek? It seems like it is, but I can&#x27;t tell for sure. Disliking LLMs for coding because they&#x27;re too helpful is an amusing concept either way.
djaouen6 months ago
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=W4jWAwUb63c" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=W4jWAwUb63c</a>
pwillia76 months ago
Enter artisanal programming
tithos6 months ago
Web dev used to be fun and FREE. Now almost every thing cost something. The stupid AI bubble will pass. We need real content, NOT AI BS!!!
lackoftactics6 months ago
I liked the original title more, a bit edgy...