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UK's Online Safety Act comes into force

212 pointsby AndrewDucker5 months ago

28 comments

dang5 months ago
Looks like <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cnbc.com&#x2F;2024&#x2F;12&#x2F;16&#x2F;britains-ofcom-brings-tough-online-safety-act-duties-into-force.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cnbc.com&#x2F;2024&#x2F;12&#x2F;16&#x2F;britains-ofcom-brings-tough-...</a> has some background. Readers may want to look at both.
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nomilk5 months ago
&gt; People in the UK will be better protected from illegal harms online<p>What are these &#x27;illegal harms&#x27;? I&#x27;m online 10+ hours a day for 10 years straight and never seen one. (not assuming they don&#x27;t exist, but their prevalence&#x2F;impact might be inflated).<p>If you have to go looking for them, isn&#x27;t this just &#x27;whack a mole&#x27; (since &#x27;online harms&#x27; will hard to 100% eradicate), but at the expense of destroying parts of the internet run by people who can&#x27;t afford the time&#x2F;cost of lawyers in order to comply with and refute claims of breach of this legislation?<p>Also &#x27;online harms&#x27; pertaining to &#x27;eating disorders&#x27;. What content promotes eating disorders?! Is there a single site that authors&#x2F;proponents of this regulation can point to that literally &#x27;promotes eating disorders&#x27;? How would a site admin determine what is acceptable and what is not? See: chilling effect [1]<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Chilling_effect" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Chilling_effect</a>
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red_admiral5 months ago
The UK has a thing called non-crime hate incidents (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.gov.uk&#x2F;government&#x2F;publications&#x2F;non-crime-hate-incidents-code-of-practice&#x2F;non-crime-hate-incidents-code-of-practice-on-the-recording-and-retention-of-personal-data-accessible" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.gov.uk&#x2F;government&#x2F;publications&#x2F;non-crime-hate-in...</a>) where the police records alleged complaints about discrimination, even if they are not a crime (otherwise they would be hate crimes).<p>This could be used to direct policing resources sensibly (&quot;lots of incidents recorded at such-and-such a place, maybe we should patrol there a bit more&quot;) or to build a dystopian database, or to waste police time. There&#x27;s certainly a push by some of the media to stop the police spending time on this and focus on solving crimes instead.<p>Similarly, this regulation could be used to prosecute child abusers, or it could be used to suppress free speech, or it could mean that people start using properly secure messaging apps.
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DrBazza5 months ago
We love our regulation, especially if the government can&#x27;t easily tax it.<p>Yet, we still have gambling adverts on UK TV and on football shirts.<p>At the same time we&#x27;ve also banned adverts for &quot;certain types&quot; of porridge. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bbc.co.uk&#x2F;news&#x2F;articles&#x2F;cvgrwzx8er9o" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bbc.co.uk&#x2F;news&#x2F;articles&#x2F;cvgrwzx8er9o</a>
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pomatic5 months ago
The biggest issue is that legislation seems to be drafted by people who have little or no expertise in their area. We&#x27;ve seen other examples of poorly drafted legislation in the UK - eg Computer Misuse Act 1990, which is intended to address hacking but can be read in such a way as to outlaw firewalls, and so on. Parliament as a whole is in desperate need of reform, it&#x27;s based on archaic principles that just don&#x27;t work anymore, but those in a position to enact reform seem to prefer the status quo.
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JoshTriplett5 months ago
Better alternative to first-party propaganda: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.eff.org&#x2F;pages&#x2F;uk-online-safety-bill-massive-threat-online-privacy-security-and-speech" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.eff.org&#x2F;pages&#x2F;uk-online-safety-bill-massive-thre...</a>
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jonathanstrange5 months ago
I have a question about that. I&#x27;m currently developing a platform with strong end-to-end encryption. My servers only store the public keys of individual accounts, the platform doesn&#x27;t allow me to see what content people post or transmit without actively eavesdropping, and there are no means for me to moderate the content. However, there will be means for paying end-consumers to moderate the content of people they have invited. It&#x27;s mostly intended as a collaborative tool for small business. However, other than steering it with marketing, I see no easy way for me to control who buys a subscription.<p>From what I can gather, my tools will fall under the Online Safety Act and are incompatible with it. So how do I properly exclude all UK customers from purchasing subscriptions? Will it suffice to geo-block the website where you buy subscriptions?
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z3t45 months ago
I tell my kids to not share any personal information online, never use their real name or birth date, and don&#x27;t trust random people on the internet. And they wouln&#x27;t even think about posting images of themselves.
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dang5 months ago
Related. Others?<p><i>Hash matching proposals for the Online Safety Act&#x27;s implementation are dangerous</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=38217439">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=38217439</a> - Nov 2023 (17 comments)<p><i>The UK&#x27;s Controversial Online Safety Act Is Now Law</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=38048811">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=38048811</a> - Oct 2023 (159 comments)<p><i>King Charles III signs off on Online Safety Act with unenforceable spying clause</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=38044973">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=38044973</a> - Oct 2023 (72 comments)
briandear5 months ago
My problem with all of these sorts of things is the idea of who determines “harmful.” Because that’s a term of such ambiguity that it could literally mean anything.<p>“Covid came from a Chinese lab” — “harmful because it causes ‘racism’”<p>“Pakistani grooming gangs in Rotherham are targeting young British girls” — harmful because it could promote social unrest.<p>“Eating meat can improve metabolic health” — harmful because it promotes behaviors that contribute heavily to climate change.<p>“Young motorcycle racers should be allowed to train on big tracks before the age of 16” — harmful because it promotes a ‘dangerous’ sport to kids.<p>I could go on and you could replace whatever I said to whatever you want to say and depending on who is the arbiter of “harmful,” that speech could be regulated in a way that creates criminals out of simply stating facts or opinions.<p>If the lead up to WW2 were today, if these regulations existed, then suggesting that a Germans in the U.K. were a national security risk could get you in trouble for “promoting harmful stereotypes about German people.”<p>In my mind, if we are to regulate speech at all, it should have a very very strict standard as to what speech is demonstrably harmful rather than politically uncomfortable. I’m not an Alex Jones fan at all, but for example, nobody died from anything he said, people have been offended and perhaps disgusted, but the ramblings of a conspiracy theorist aren’t causing anyone actual harm. In the US, we have libel and slander laws, we also have laws against speech that cause an imminent threat of danger — but we should never have laws that protect people from being offended, or even misinformed. We have websites supporting Chinese Traditional Medicine despite some practices in that field being demonstrably harmful and contrary to modern medical science — should those be banned? I would think most people would say not.<p>This online “safety” regulation is really a regulation to regulate political speech under the guise of “protecting the children.”
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collyw5 months ago
The steady march towards authoritarianism continues.<p>Is there any way that we can overwhelm them?
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cynicalsecurity5 months ago
Crazy stuff. This feels very Soviet and dystopian. This looks like something that would come from a Watchtower cult magazine. Anonymous experiences that can&#x27;t be checked and conveniently and unanimously support the agenda, extended control over people&#x27;s private life with severe punishment for even the slightest disagreement or god forbid an alternative opinion.
cjs_ac5 months ago
As a software engineer in the UK (and former schoolteacher) I&#x27;m supportive of the Online Safety Act. People prefer to interact with people who are similar to them, so they end up with a belief that most people are like them, but as a teacher, I had to grapple with the full distribution of human intelligence. It&#x27;s wider than I&#x27;m comfortable with. Most people struggle to deal with the complexity of everyday life in the twenty-first century.<p>My grandparents used to fall for every scam phone call or email they received. It wasn&#x27;t until I showed them a compilation[0] of the George Agdgdgwngo character from Fonejacker - and the rest of my extended family sat around laughing at the ridiculous scenarios - that my grandparents realised that giving their bank details to anyone claiming to be calling from Microsoft and then expecting the bank to refund them their money wasn&#x27;t an acceptable way to handle their financial affairs. In the end, they disabled their Internet banking and now have to catch a bus to their nearest bank branch to do anything.<p>I&#x27;m sure there will be flurry of Americans along shortly to monotonously repeat that quote about not trading freedom for security. That&#x27;s their political tradition, not ours. The people of Thetford in Norfolk don&#x27;t give a flying fuck about the gold statue of Thomas Paine that the Federalist Society (or some other group, I&#x27;m not terribly interested in which it was) put up in their town, but they love the fact that a sitcom about the Second World War was filmed there.<p>Someone else will make a joke about police officers investigating tweets. That practice - which was put to an end a couple of years ago - stemmed from a particular interpretation of a law that required police forces to investigate all threats of violence made by post, that was enacted in the 1980s during a period of increased religiously-motivated terrorism. The following decade brought the negotiations that put an end to that terrorism; negotiations that were the culmination of nearly five centuries of religious conflict. It is much harder to make glib assertions that principles are more important than physical safety when the violence happens in your city.<p>I shall leave it to others to make the usual accusations about who funded the aforementioned terrorism.<p>The Online Safety Act is vague and non-specific. Social media platforms differentiate themselves in the market on the bases of: with whom users can interact (people they know personally or the user base at large); and the ways in which they can interact (photos, videos, comments, likes, <i>&amp;c.</i>). Each platform therefore poses its own unique set of risks to its user base, and so needs to have its own unique regulations. The Act acknowledges by empowering Ofcom to negotiate the specific policies that platforms will need to follow on a platform-by-platform basis. And if those policies should turn out to be too strict, and a few social media companies should find it no longer profitable to operate in the United Kingdom, that is not all that much of an issue for His Majesty&#x27;s Government. They&#x27;re not British companies, after all.<p>You can&#x27;t talk about the Forbidden Meatballs[1] on Reddit or HN. In the 90s, AOL users from Scunthorpe and Penistone were banned from user forums for telling the community where they lived to help diagnose their connectivity issues. Americans have enforced - and continue to enforce - their cultural norms on the entire Anglophone web, and now the rest of the world has started to do the same. I have much greater faith in my government to protect my freedom of speech (no matter how much I may object to their policies) than some foreign company.<p>For those who are concerned that they will have to engage a solicitor to write reams of policies for their small Mastodon instance, need I remind you how utterly half-arsed everything in this country is? &#x27;Maximum effect for minimum effort and cost&#x27; has been the guiding principle of all government in Britain for decades - it&#x27;s how Britain ruled its Empire, it&#x27;s what drove the Thirteen Colonies to rebel, it&#x27;s why the East India Company was allowed to rule a subcontinent, it&#x27;s why many of the former colonies were given independence despite not wanting it, it&#x27;s why the roads are so consistently bad, it&#x27;s why the water companies are dumping sewage into rivers, it&#x27;s why there aren&#x27;t enough police officers.<p>To anyone who thinks that regulating social media is some sort of prelude to a totalitarian state, I suggest you watch Britons at a traffic-light-controlled pedestrian crossing. This isn&#x27;t the end of the world; it&#x27;s not going to lead to any social changes of any sort at all. The Act requires protections for free speech, after all. When it&#x27;s all finally implemented, it&#x27;ll just be enforcement of social norms that no one finds controversial.<p>NB: I read through the Act to see whether an idea for a social media platform was still a viable business idea, and apart from sending policy documents to Ofcom, it wouldn&#x27;t require the business to do anything that wasn&#x27;t already in that idea. If you want to argue about what the Act requires, I will expect you to have read the Act[2].<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=R9biM_ZfIdo" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=R9biM_ZfIdo</a><p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.tesco.com&#x2F;groceries&#x2F;en-GB&#x2F;products&#x2F;282049626" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.tesco.com&#x2F;groceries&#x2F;en-GB&#x2F;products&#x2F;282049626</a><p>[2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.legislation.gov.uk&#x2F;ukpga&#x2F;2023&#x2F;50&#x2F;contents" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.legislation.gov.uk&#x2F;ukpga&#x2F;2023&#x2F;50&#x2F;contents</a>
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highcountess5 months ago
Thank you, Ministry of Safety.
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archagon5 months ago
I wonder what happens with these sorts of regulations if an entirely decentralized social media platform becomes popular. Who do the authorities go after if there&#x27;s no owner or server?
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rlaksh5 months ago
Ok, &quot;think of the children&quot; again. If it <i>were</i> about the children, they&#x27;d simply forbid phones and unsupervised Internet for anyone under 16. Problem solved.<p>The issue of course is that the Internet is too valuable of a propaganda instrument. Children need propaganda, but they need <i>our</i> propaganda.<p>The offense list is in classic CoC style. Vague terms like terrorism have been abused in the U.K. for a long time and applied against journalists like the husband of Glenn Greenwald, who had been arrested in London for communicating with Laura Poitras.<p>Many journalists have been stopped and digitally stripped searched in the U.K. while traveling.<p>So what are websites to do to escape that? Perhaps put up permanent banners like &quot;NATO must be prepared for a great patriotic land war with Russia&quot; and &quot;We need more immigration&quot; in order to be safe.
DarkmSparks5 months ago
Brought to you by the people who read Orwells 1984 and thought it was a handbook rather than a warning.<p>I really have zero respect for this law. Watch the BBC interview with Elon Musk over twitter to see how moronic the people behind it are.<p>When you mix in all the war mongering they do vv Russia and the massive crack downs they have been engaging in to cover up how fast living standards have been falling, and the whole thing is a sad joke.
systemstops5 months ago
The UK is building their own digital gulag. Most social media companies are not going to institute these authoritarian measures for one small nation that wants to regulate the world. You are going to see yourselves cut off.
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webspinner5 months ago
This is the worst piece of legislation ever! If the US ever passes something like this in my lifetime, I&#x27;m planning on ending it.
userbinator5 months ago
1984 was not an instruction manual.
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ksymph5 months ago
The future this (and similar legislature from other countries) points toward is extremely concerning.<p>I run a small site with some user interaction; though it doesn&#x27;t seem the intended target of this particular legislature, it seems inevitable that there will be a law enacted somewhere that leaves the site vulnerable unless I&#x27;m constantly staying on top of the increasingly varied and specific requirements across the world. I don&#x27;t see how anyone but big corporations can expect to deal with that, frankly.<p>I wish there was an international standard of reasonable moderation and data handling specifically for small sites. A static checklist of requirements like manual screening of user-generated content within a certain time period, gdpr-esque transparency of user data - things that any responsible webmaster should be doing anyway.<p>I suppose there are potential problems with that too, but either way that ship has already sailed. Instead we&#x27;re all on the Titanic, ignoring alarm bells as we careen towards the iceberg of siloed corporatocracy.
NoImmatureAdHom5 months ago
The U.K. is jailing people for mean tweets, and has been for a while:<p>- &quot;More than 30 people found themselves arrested over social media posts. From what I’ve found, at least 17 of those have been charged.&quot; -- the BBC, this is specifically for the Southport riots. They have been doing this for years, of course.[1]<p>- &quot;First people jailed over social media posts during unrest 9 August<p>Today&#x27;s live coverage has mainly come from the courts, with jail sentences handed down for those involved in the violent disorder since the fatal stabbings in Southport last Monday.<p>Here&#x27;s a quick summary of key events today:<p><pre><code> In the first case of a person going to jail for posting on social media during the disorder, Jordan Parlour, 28, of Seacroft, Leeds, received a 20 month sentence for inciting others to target a Leeds building which housed asylum seekers At least two others also received jail sentences for social media posts that stirred up racial hatred Suspended Labour councillor Ricky Jones appeared in court charged with encouraging violent disorder after he was filmed apparently telling a crowd that far-right demonstrators should have their throats cut 6000 officers with specialist training in public order are &quot;prepared and ready&quot; to deal with any potential unrest over the weekend About 600 people have been arrested this week with hundreds more expected in the coming days and weeks, police say, with the use of facial recognition technology fast tracking the process &quot;[2] </code></pre> - This woman merely livestreamed <i>other</i> people doing naughty things, and called some people &quot;tramps&quot;. &quot;Much of the TikTok stream had been rather amateurish, Mr Rudge argued, giving a view of the cobblestones in Tamworth but showing no acts of violence.&quot; LOL. 9 months in prison. [3]<p>- More: [4]<p>- More: [5]<p>- &quot;This is in relation to some comments you made on Facebook (police arrest old man in his home, good video): [6]<p>- &quot;We do have dedicated police officers who are scouring social media to look for this material, and then follow up with arrests.&quot; - Director of Public Prosecutions for England and Wales. Video worth a watch. [7]<p>-<p>Punishment is often also extremely swift. Facebook video --&gt; court --&gt; prison in a matter of a week and a half. Of course, if you stand accused of e.g. raping children, it will take a year and a half.<p>-<p>This country has gone right off a cliff and is currently in free-fall.<p>-<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bbc.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;articles&#x2F;cr548zdmz3jo" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bbc.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;articles&#x2F;cr548zdmz3jo</a><p>[2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bbc.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;live&#x2F;cpdlvz80pjzt?post=asset%3A3678492d-7550-46f8-979d-50ed624b9f65#post" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bbc.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;live&#x2F;cpdlvz80pjzt?post=asset%3A3678...</a><p>[3] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bbc.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;articles&#x2F;ckgdkvwwwqyo" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bbc.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;articles&#x2F;ckgdkvwwwqyo</a><p>[4] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;x.com&#x2F;visegrad24&#x2F;status&#x2F;1857720874146664670" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;x.com&#x2F;visegrad24&#x2F;status&#x2F;1857720874146664670</a><p>[5] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;x.com&#x2F;SamanthaTaghoy&#x2F;status&#x2F;1857928002014761201" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;x.com&#x2F;SamanthaTaghoy&#x2F;status&#x2F;1857928002014761201</a><p>[6] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;x.com&#x2F;i&#x2F;status&#x2F;1823087302886965636" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;x.com&#x2F;i&#x2F;status&#x2F;1823087302886965636</a><p>[7] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;x.com&#x2F;SkyNews&#x2F;status&#x2F;1821178852397477984" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;x.com&#x2F;SkyNews&#x2F;status&#x2F;1821178852397477984</a><p>And more<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.standingforfreedom.com&#x2F;2024&#x2F;08&#x2F;think-before-you-post-the-u-k-is-now-jailing-people-for-social-media-comments&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.standingforfreedom.com&#x2F;2024&#x2F;08&#x2F;think-before-you-...</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.sky.com&#x2F;story&#x2F;wife-of-tory-councillor-jailed-for-31-months-over-social-media-post-stirring-up-racial-hatred-13234756" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.sky.com&#x2F;story&#x2F;wife-of-tory-councillor-jailed-fo...</a>
DaveMcMartin5 months ago
they always use a good cause to push for more authoritarian polices
scratchyone5 months ago
&gt; Hash-matching tools link known images of CSAM from police databases to encrypted digital fingerprints known as “hashes” for each piece of content to help social media sites’ automated filtering systems recognize and remove them.<p>I know this is a little bit of a nitpick, but I really feel like it hurts the credibility of a news organization to make a mistake this obvious that also shows they completely misunderstand the entire concept they&#x27;re explaining.<p>That&#x27;s fundamentally a wrong definition and implies that that these social media sites could simply decrypt the hash to access the source material. The entire purpose of hashing as a cryptographic tool is that it <i>isn&#x27;t</i> encryption.
jimnotgym5 months ago
The furore below reminds me of the GDPR apocalypse predictions...none of which came true.
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csmattryder5 months ago
&gt; crisis response protocols for emergency events (such as last summer’s riots).<p>Or maybe the proles organising mass protests at the government. No, surely not.
benfrain5 months ago
I’d like to see all social media sites require proper age verification, much like any gambling sites in the UK have to. No under 18 <i>needs</i> social media. Feel, especially for children, they are a net negative.
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nvarsj5 months ago
Plugging the draft guidance into chatgpt:<p><pre><code> Age Assurance Methods: Effective methods: Open banking, photo-ID matching, facial age estimation, credit card checks, and digital identity wallets. Ineffective methods: Self-declaration, general disclaimers, or payment methods without age restrictions. </code></pre> So basically, ID verification will be required for any platform that may have adult&#x2F;harmful materials.
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