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The number pi has an evil twin

579 pointsby pkaeding5 months ago

39 comments

dclaw5 months ago
This discussion helped me discover my new favorite map. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;File:Peirce_Quincuncial_Projection_1879.jpg" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;File:Peirce_Quincuncial_Projec...</a>
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GistNoesis5 months ago
And to protect you from it, you can use the following lucky clover charm (polar plot r=cos(2<i>theta) ): <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.wolframalpha.com&#x2F;input?i=+plot+r%3Dcos%282theta%29" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.wolframalpha.com&#x2F;input?i=+plot+r%3Dcos%282theta%...</a> whose perimeter can also define a constant 4*E(-3) ~ 4 * 2.4221<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.wolframalpha.com&#x2F;input?i=plot+r%3Dcos%282theta%29+from+theta+%3D+-pi%2F4+to+pi%2F4\" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.wolframalpha.com&#x2F;input?i=plot+r%3Dcos%282theta%2...</a></i>
soneca5 months ago
&gt; <i>” This ∞-shaped curve is called a &#x27;leminscate&#x27;, and ϖ is called the &#x27;lemniscate constant&#x27;. I&#x27;ll show you the leminiscate in my next post.”</i><p>This got me confused, so I went to check. Apparently <i>”lemniscate”</i> is the correct spelling.
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divbzero5 months ago
π is derived from the circle, which is defined by distance from a single point.<p>ϖ is derived from the lemniscate of Bernoulli, which is defined by distances from two points.<p>Is there an analogous constant that is derived from a shape defined by distances from three points?
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cl3misch5 months ago
&gt; I&#x27;m not enough of a cultural relativist to believe there&#x27;s a civilization that cares more about the shape ∞ than the shape ◯.<p>Maybe these are &quot;logarithmic&quot; beings, as opposed to us &quot;linear&quot; beings? The lemniscate is based on geometric mean, which is basically multiplicative mean and&#x2F;or mean in log-space -- as opposed to the additive mean in linear space.<p>If we assume we are linear beings good at intuitive addition but somewhat bad at intuitive multiplication, there could exist beings which live in log-space and whose minds are based on multiplication. Their circle would be the lemniscate.
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dxbydt5 months ago
aside: As the Professor points out, the ratio of pi to its evil twin is ~1.198, the arithmetic-geometric mean of sqrt(2) and 1. The geometric part involves a square root, and square roots are expensive. So I was like, well, if the AM converges to GM, then due to AM-GM-HM inequality, it must converge to the harmonic mean as well. And the HM does not need an expensive square root!<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;imgur.com&#x2F;a&#x2F;UkxkPzW" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;imgur.com&#x2F;a&#x2F;UkxkPzW</a><p>Its quite wild that the AM GM convergence is almost immediate - in just 2 steps, whereas to get a decent convergence for the Gauss&#x27;s constant via HM, you need like 15 steps.You can dispense with expensive operators like square root but you end up paying for it with numerous iterations.
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TaurenHunter5 months ago
Other notable constants and where they show up:<p>Euler–Mascheroni Constant (integrals and sums involving the harmonic series, Gamma functions)<p>Catalan’s Constant (certain trigonometric series, lattice Green’s function)<p>Feigenbaum Constants (logistic map, chaos in dynamical systems)<p>Khinchin’s Constant (partial quotients in simple continued fractions)<p>Glaisher–Kinkelin Constant (asymptotic expansions of the Barnes G-function, combinatorial limits and certain product expansions)<p>Ramanujan’s Constant (complex multiplication of elliptic curves)<p>Omega Constant (Omega times e to the power of Omega = 1, Lambert W function, x^x^x^... = 2)
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yukioikeda5 months ago
It seems obvious that these are not twins. We can only say that π and ϖ are two among the infinite multitude of siblings ϖₙ.
slippy5 months ago
Hmm. Why only 2? Why not 3 points? Can you find an interesting curve produced by a constant product of distances from N points? Maybe even in higher dimensions, for 1 point, you have a sphere. What is the shape for 2 points? Is it more like an hourglass-like double droplet?
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metaphor5 months ago
&gt; This ∞-shaped curve is called a &#x27;<i>leminscate</i>&#x27;, and ϖ is called the &#x27;<i>lemniscate</i> constant&#x27;. I&#x27;ll show you the <i>leminiscate</i> in my next post.<p>Two of these...do not belong?
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mst5 months ago
Having that shape become more important to a civilisation than the circle because it has something to do with the geometry of hyperspace seems like it could be an interesting conceit for a sci-fi setting.
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sapphicsnail5 months ago
If I saw ϖ in the wild I would have assumed it was an omega (ω) with a macron over it. Makes me wonder how many more varient Greek letters are out there.
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divbzero5 months ago
The Fourier transform is composed of trigonometric sines and cosines.<p>There must be an analogous transform composed of lemniscate sines and cosines?
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efortis5 months ago
Infinity symbol with Lissajous curve:<p>x = A<i>sin(at + delta)<p>y = B</i>sin(bt)<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ericfortis.github.io&#x2F;lissajous&#x2F;?preset=Infinity" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ericfortis.github.io&#x2F;lissajous&#x2F;?preset=Infinity</a>
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ComputerGuru5 months ago
The post mentions that ϖ is called “varpi”; I just wanted to add that this is actually short for “variant of pi”, also known as an “archaic form of pi” from old Greek writing.
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thoughtcritical5 months ago
&quot;figure of eight&quot; curves .... perhaps the simplest is the lemniscate of Gerono, which has the parametrization:<p>x = cos(t); y = sin(2<i>t) &#x2F; 2; and looks like this:<p>Lemniscate of Gerono animation <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;i.sstatic.net&#x2F;VKBgs.gif" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;i.sstatic.net&#x2F;VKBgs.gif</a><p>However, the lemniscate of Bernoulli may be visually more pleasing; it has a parametrization very similar to the lemniscate of Gerono, except that both axes are scaled by a factor of 1&#x2F;(sin(t)^2 + 1) = 2&#x2F;(3 - cos(2</i>t)):<p>scale = 2 &#x2F; (3 - cos(2<i>t)); x = scale </i> cos(t); y = scale * sin(2*t) &#x2F; 2; It looks like this:<p>Lemniscate of Bernoulli animation <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;i.sstatic.net&#x2F;nOPMx.gif" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;i.sstatic.net&#x2F;nOPMx.gif</a><p>per: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gamedev.stackexchange.com&#x2F;questions&#x2F;43691&#x2F;how-can-i-move-an-object-in-an-infinity-or-figure-8-trajectory" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gamedev.stackexchange.com&#x2F;questions&#x2F;43691&#x2F;how-can-i-...</a>
big-green-man5 months ago
You just blew my mind. I&#x27;m taking a dive on this.
whamlastxmas5 months ago
Wish people wouldn’t inject weird social jabs into stuff like this
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nthingtohide5 months ago
Change pi to ϖ in this setup.<p>2022 - Non-Euclidean Doom: What happens to a game when pi is not 3.14159… <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;_ZSFRWJCUY4?t=406" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;_ZSFRWJCUY4?t=406</a>
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SubiculumCode5 months ago
Is there an evil twin to the set of prime numbers?
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sourcepluck5 months ago
&gt; This ∞-shaped curve is called a &#x27;leminscate&#x27;, and ϖ is called the &#x27;lemniscate constant&#x27;. I&#x27;ll show you the leminiscate in my next post.<p>I think others have commented, but this three-way spelling certainly got a chuckle from me.
mettamage5 months ago
So are there an infinite amount of constants like this? In terms of pi, e and this number?<p>Just wondering, there are an infinite number of shapes I suppose? But does that mean there is an infinite amount of constants?
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Morizero5 months ago
Is there an abstraction of a leminscate&#x2F;consonant with 3+ center points?
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AlecBG5 months ago
The lemniscate really looks like a homoclinic orbit in a 2d dynamics problem
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BearOso5 months ago
I thought it might be e. e is often used to model unbounded growth, so it&#x27;s chaotic, while pi is harmonic.<p>Plus, evil starts with &#x27;e&#x27;, so why not.<p>&quot;Laugh with me Jocko!&quot; &quot;Eeeeeeeeeeeeee!&quot;
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initramfs5 months ago
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Bizarro" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Bizarro</a>
cluckindan5 months ago
Side by side, there is a clear parallel to monopolar and bipolar fields. Is this found in any version of Maxwell’s equations?
candlemas5 months ago
&gt;On our planet, it was Bernoulli, Euler and Gauss who discovered this math.<p>You don&#x27;t say. Newton must have been sick that day.
avalys5 months ago
I thought this was going to be about tau, which is not pi&#x27;s evil twin, but rather, the One True Circle Constant.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;tauday.com&#x2F;tau-manifesto" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;tauday.com&#x2F;tau-manifesto</a>
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layer85 months ago
Is there something like ThreadReaderApp for Mastodon?
TomK325 months ago
Am I the only one who expected the evil twin to be 3 ?
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aap_5 months ago
Wow, pomega is such a terrible name for it!
babbledabbler5 months ago
Woah it even has a w for wa-pi-rio.
Bengalilol5 months ago
mupi (mutant pi) or piet (pi evil twin) would be better names
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waldrews5 months ago
Seems like a fine number, but I bet there&#x27;s quite a few more irrational computable numbers out there.
nektro5 months ago
how close is ϖ to e?
notpushkin5 months ago
&gt; I&#x27;m not enough of a cultural relativist to believe there&#x27;s a civilization that cares more about the shape ∞ than the shape ◯.<p>Rumor has it there is one civilization of lizard-people out there. One is in fact running a company here on Earth with this shape as a logo!<p>&#x2F;s
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yason5 months ago
[flagged]
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BeetleB5 months ago
I follow John on Mastodon. He never fails to disappoint.
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