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The Dome Paradox: A Loophole in Newton's Laws

10 pointsby ta86455 months ago

3 comments

dventimi5 months ago
There are many good treatments of this supposed loophole. I happen to like this one:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;blog.gruffdavies.com&#x2F;2017&#x2F;12&#x2F;24&#x2F;newtonian-physics-is-deterministic-sorry-norton&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;blog.gruffdavies.com&#x2F;2017&#x2F;12&#x2F;24&#x2F;newtonian-physics-is...</a><p>It points out many flaws in Norton&#x27;s reasoning, some fatal to his argument, some not. Putting it as simply as I can, Norton seems to claim that &quot;Newton&#x27;s Laws&quot; are <i>non-deterministic</i>. That&#x27;s not quite right. Rather, they are <i>non-complete</i>. I.e. they are <i>incomplete</i>. They&#x27;re incomplete insofar as Newton&#x27;s First Law (<i>&quot;An object at rest remains at rest, and an object in motion remains in motion at constant speed and in a straight line unless acted on by an unbalanced force&quot;</i>) establishes first-order and second-order derivatives (momentum and acceleration) as state variables but places no constraints on higher-order derivatives. However, higher-order derivatives <i>are</i> (as many as are needed) among a system&#x27;s state variables. In many (but far from all), higher-order derivatives are zero and human experience with them is rare, so they&#x27;re easy to overlook. Norton&#x27;s (unphysical) Dome is a specific example of a general class of systems where higher-order derivatives are <i>not</i> zero. Given that, the two branches of Norton&#x27;s equation of motion (for the <i>stable</i> and <i>unstable</i> trajectories) cannot both describe the same system (or the same particle) with the same set of state variables. <i>That&#x27;s</i> the sleight-of-hand.<p>Again, all credit to Gareth Davies for working this out. I am absolutely not trying to pass off his work for my own. Just reporting it and trying to summarize it.
dang5 months ago
Related ongoing thread:<p><i>The Dome (2005)</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=42583688">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=42583688</a> - Jan 2025 (22 comments)
jeffwass5 months ago
Is there a way to get the key points of this interesting topic without having to watch a 23 minute video?
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