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PCBs, copper pours, ground planes, and you

284 pointsby surprisetalk4 months ago

17 comments

michaelt4 months ago
<i>&gt; Other than increased miniaturization, the most striking change is the use of copper pours [...] Why did we start doing this?</i><p>We&#x27;ve been doing something a lot like this for as long as I can remember.<p>Back in the 1990s if there were any big unused copper areas on your PCB you&#x27;d mask them to save on etching acid - a gallon of acid would have a lifetime measured in square inches of copper removed, and the less copper you removed, the longer your acid would last.<p>Meanwhile, a lot of DIY etching processes were very basic. Sure, you <i>could</i> get translucent acid and a transparent bath and heat it to a controlled temperature and run bubbles through it and so on. But if you were on a budget, some room temperature ferric chloride in an old ice cream container would get the job done. And getting the etch resist onto the board? You could draw it by hand with special pens, use transfers, there were special printer toner transfer papers, or you could DIY UV photoresist using printable projector transparencies and the sun as your UV source.<p>This was not a super-scientific, tightly controlled process.<p>If you had narrow traces and narrow gaps on one part of your PCB, and large areas of copper to remove on another? Well, if you left it in the acid long enough to remove that large area, could be the narrow traces get etched away too.<p>So masking off any large areas meant all the copper getting etched was about the same width - thus compensating for the poorly controlled etching process.<p>Of course, these days professional PCB manufacturing is orders of magnitude cheaper than it used to be. When you send your design to pcbway or jlcpcb they have much tighter control over the process, so you no longer have to worry about this stuff.
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hex4def64 months ago
&gt; The return current on the back is free to spread out, but in practice, it will prefer the path of least resistance — i.e., the shortest line between the two vias.<p>This is a bit misleading. It does preferentially flow along the shortest path, but not exclusively. It will indeed spread out. It takes <i>all</i> paths with a current proportional to their resistance, not just the shortest path. The percentage of total current that <i>isn&#x27;t</i> flowing directly along the shortest path is still very significant.<p>Think of it as a bunch of resistors in parallel. The shortest path might be 0.1ohm, and the longest path 10x longer at 1ohm, but current will be flowing along both of those paths. If 1A is flowing down the shortest path, you will still have 100mA down the 10x length path.
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tverbeure4 months ago
One of my all time favorite videos (one of the few that I rewatch once per year) is &quot;The Extreme Importance of PC Board Stack-Up with Rick Hartley&quot;. It&#x27;s fantastic.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;resources.altium.com&#x2F;p&#x2F;the-extreme-importance-of-pc-board-stack-up-rick-hartley" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;resources.altium.com&#x2F;p&#x2F;the-extreme-importance-of-pc-...</a>
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exmadscientist4 months ago
Grumble grumble. Professional here, and I <i>really</i> do not like this article.<p>There are a lot of things getting mixed up here: ground planes for EMC, ground planes for electrical performance, ground planes for DFM&#x2F;etching, and ground planes as &quot;fashion&quot;.<p>First off, let&#x27;s just say that meeting radiated EMC (&quot;47 CFR Part 15&quot; according to the article, equivalent to CISPR 22&#x2F;32 in Europe) is a bloody good idea. Yes, the testing labs are &quot;a bit of a racket&quot;. But does anyone else remember the days when turning on the vacuum cleaner would knock out the TV? That wasn&#x27;t great. And we have a whole lot more electronics in the world today. A world without Part 15&#x2F;CISPR is an ugly world indeed.<p>Four-layer boards are cheap. Really cheap. They may be double the cost, but you&#x27;re doubling pennies here. In fact, just checking in with one common low-volume supplier, they&#x27;re not doubling: the price for 200mm × 100mm boards with good specs goes from $9.34 each in quantity 10 to... $10.59. For prototypes, that&#x27;s basically a rounding error. Perhaps even literally a rounding error. So don&#x27;t complain about the cost of four-layer boards anymore, it isn&#x27;t 2004.<p>Internal ground fill layers are what people usually mean when talking about &quot;ground planes&quot;. They have three key properties:<p>1. They are very easy to do and are very tolerant of mistakes. You don&#x27;t have to calculate return current paths, you don&#x27;t have to size and locate return current traces, you don&#x27;t have to gum up your routing. You just dedicate the layer and it works, and it keeps working if you have to make changes later.<p>2. They help shield internal layers further down in the stack from radiating. This is usually minor, but for nasty digital stuff or high-power electronics, can be useful.<p>3. They develop inter-plane capacitance with nearby power layers, if inter-layer dielectrics are small. This is critical to maintaining power distribution network performance at high frequencies (&gt;100s of MHz). This stuff is very, very important to make high-speed digital logic work well. Of course, it&#x27;s only one link in the chain (GHz stuff gets handled on-package or even on-die; &lt;100MHz is the job of on-board capacitors until you get into power supply dynamics in the kHz and below). This is the &quot;increasing shunt capacitance&quot; mentioned in the article. Yes, it can be bad news for analog stuff, but this is both very rare and the sort of problem where anyone who can do that kind of difficult analog design has the skill to punch a hole in the plane where it&#x27;s needed.<p>There is also a manufacturing issue where the manufacturers find it easiest to have approximately balanced amounts of copper on opposite layers of a board. Copper pours are one solution to this. Copper thieving pads are another. This is important but easy to manage, and vendors are good at it.<p>So all of the above applies to internal layer copper fills. None of it is &quot;fashion&quot;: there are good reasons to do it, the extra layers are cheap these days, and it&#x27;s an easy and robust way to design things. Fills on <i>external</i> layers are a different matter; they&#x27;re kind of stupid in a lot of cases. Unless you&#x27;re doing a two-layer design, or a 4-layer that kind of ends up behaving like a 2-layer (this happens sometimes when stuff is very tight), the external fills are pretty worthless. I wrote more about this ages ago over here: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.eevblog.com&#x2F;forum&#x2F;eda&#x2F;altium-article-on-never-using-ground-pours&#x2F;msg2841186&#x2F;#msg2841186" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.eevblog.com&#x2F;forum&#x2F;eda&#x2F;altium-article-on-never-us...</a> This is the only real thing I&#x27;d agree with the article on.<p>There&#x27;s a lot of stuff going on here, and I don&#x27;t think this article does a very good job keeping it straight. If you take one thing away from all of this, it should probably be that internal copper planes are pretty great, and what happens on the outside of the board isn&#x27;t so important.
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the__alchemist4 months ago
Great article!<p>&gt; To keep things simple, some hobbyists opt for four-layer boards, with the two inner layers dedicated to GND and Vdd. This works, but means paying about twice as much.<p>With the prices out of Shenzhen, there is IMO no reason to use a 2-layer board, outside of trivial cases (Like a CAN terminator etc). 4-layers are a bit more expensive, but make routing much easier. I don&#x27;t want to spend the time solving the routing puzzle on a two-layer board, then worrying about inductance (the article&#x27;s topic) on top of that.<p>Baseline 2024 plan: Start with 4-layers as a generic baseline. Go to 6 (or higher?) if your design is sufficiently complex, and&#x2F;or complex. (Or has high-frequency signals). More layers = more easier.
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kevin_thibedeau4 months ago
The simple explanation is that glue logic and wide busses have mostly disappeared from contemporary electronics. Now you have a smattering of peripherals with point to point links leaving board space for fills that would have been pointless attempting with pervasive Manhattan routing on the outer layers.<p>Solid fills also had a propensity to warp boards, requiring hatched patterns to relieve the imbalance. That constrained their use to boards with sufficient free space to maintain connectivity of the fill areas. PCB manufacturing has improved enough to minimize this concern.
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dtgriscom4 months ago
&gt; In electronic circuits, the flow of electrons is confined to conductors, but the transfer of energy doesn’t involve these particles bouncing off each other; instead, the process is mediated through electromagnetic fields. These fields originate from charge carriers, but extend freely into the surrounding space.<p>That&#x27;s a great couple of sentences; it really clearly explains what&#x27;s going on.
mmcwilliams4 months ago
I don&#x27;t see it mentioned here but I may be too much of an amateur but I use copper pours because it reduces the work my ferric chloride has to do when I&#x27;m making prototypes. Having a mask cover all unused areas on the board vs. letting the acid eat through it seems like a waste.
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kazinator4 months ago
One reason for copper pours in a DIY hobby context is that copper pours vastly reduce how much copper has to be etched away. This requires less chemical like ferric chloride and less time.<p>You are making a capacitor, though, when you do that.
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cushychicken4 months ago
This article is a bit superficial on EMC compliance, but they get one thing right, and that’s this:<p><i>Adding a solid ground plane to your board is one of the single best choices you can make in your PCB design.</i>
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bigstrat20034 months ago
Ok I&#x27;m gonna ask a potentially stupid question as someone who knows little to nothing about electronics. The article (and every other source I looked at when trying to answer my question) points out the blank spots on the board as a copper pour. Where, exactly, is the copper? I just see green plastic. Is it on the back side and nobody is taking photos of it?
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roland354 months ago
There are a few other benefit to copper fills as well - it makes routing power much easier, it separates analog and digital regions of a PCB, and it helps with heat dissipation.<p>I do agree that just because you have a fill, that doesn&#x27;t mean it is necessarily doing much help. You need to be careful that it isn&#x27;t too broken up.
yujzgzc4 months ago
All I know is that it makes it very hard to solder anything to ground with my cheap underpowered soldering iron
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mikeInAlaska4 months ago
Four layer boards are so cheap now, it&#x27;s all I choose. I usually do two internal ground planes and route my power on one side unbroken. I haven&#x27;t made an interrupted return path since watching Rick Hartley videos.
pcdoodle4 months ago
Without a ground pour, isn&#x27;t each trace basically an antenna?
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fargle4 months ago
@dang title is wrong ground <i>planes</i> not plates
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MisterTea4 months ago
This is blogging for the sake of blogging. &quot;A closer look at a fashion trend in printed circuit board design&quot; reads like its going to be a history lesson in PCB aesthetics that quickly veers off into the weeds with copper pours that the author confuses with ground planes. There&#x27;s no fashion or history here. Just another mostly useless article to pad out their blogger merit badge.<p>If you want to write a genuinely useful technical article then have someone in the relative field read it and give feedback. Otherwise you are wasting peoples time or worse, misleading them and causing harm.