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Fake thinking and real thinking

88 pointsby surprisetalk4 months ago

7 comments

lordnacho4 months ago
This got me recalling tutorials at university. (One-on-ones with a professor)<p>Sometimes I would reach this strange state where I could be asked something by the professor, and I would say something based on what I had read, and the prof would say &quot;yes that&#x27;s right&quot;.<p>But I knew that I didn&#x27;t understand it. Somehow I was producing the right answer, but there was a dissatisfaction that was hard to explain. Whether it was math or economics, it sort of felt like I was regurgitating or just mechanically solving equations, without any feel for what was actually being done.<p>The opposite also happened, especially in math. Thinking that I understand something, but then getting stumped when an obviously related question proved impossible.<p>However the first case is the weirder case, because the latter is simply exposing that you actually don&#x27;t know something via external input, whereas the former gives you external validation that you really shouldn&#x27;t have.
roenxi4 months ago
In the main, unless someone has a remarkably clear mind, I wouldn&#x27;t trust them to internally assess the state of their own thinking in these terms (hollow v. solid; map v. world, etc). This is how bias and cognitive short circuits slip in. &quot;I&#x27;m thinking solidly, so it seems safe to believe that the Illuminati control what futures!&quot;. Changing a mind typically feels very unsettling in all the ways that make people think they are mis-thinking, and the abstract can be uncomfortable in every way imaginable. It is a self-reflecting lump of meat, don&#x27;t expect your mind to behave in any particular way one day to the next. It is only just holding it together with the help of the long-suffering skull.<p>A more succinct check:<p>1) Can I state a formal (ie, logical) argument? Y&#x2F;N.<p>2) Have I checked the assumptions of that argument as best I can for objectivity? Include a steel-man check. Y&#x2F;N.<p>3) Have I had a hot argument with someone intelligent who disagrees with my assumptions? Y&#x2F;N.<p>Three Ys on that sale and that is as close as someone can get to whether they have really been thinking about something or not. Step 2 is the hard part.
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satisfice4 months ago
I see no reason to accept the premise that “fake thinking” can exist. Occam’s razor suggests a simpler interpretation: telling lies.<p>It would be like saying Tic Tac Toe is not a real game, but chess IS real. Charades is fake, but Darts is real. They are merely different games, requiring different models and operations.<p>“Rote thinking” is real thinking, applied to simple pattern matching situation.<p>The concern of the author can be addressed by focusing on the difference between pretense and authenticity. Am I lying to myself? Am I clothing myself in a patina of reason that I intentionally do not complete or repair, because the story soothes me? If so, that’s not necessarily bad or wrong— unless I wish to do my best thinking.
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striking4 months ago
I find essays written in this style to be overwrought in a way that makes them impossible to challenge (setting aside AI summarization). Is this not, in and of itself, a form of fake thinking?<p>For example, some section of this essay introduces the following:<p>&gt; Did evolution want to build this kind of truth engine? Well, maybe it’s complicated.<p>It later begins to conclude with:<p>&gt; But regardless of the actual evolutionary and psychological story, here, I think my point about the abstract form of a truth engine still stands.<p>Why bother introducing the evopsych hypothesis if we&#x27;re not actually going to stand behind it or use it in a meaningful way?<p>I don&#x27;t even mean this particularly as a takedown, the dimensions listed are kind of interesting at least. But I find a particular sort of irony in having written so many words and having engaged in so much thought just to return to not thinking about something at all.
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zkmon4 months ago
Thinking about thinking is unnecessary. Thinking is same as worrying about something. When you do thinking, you are neither eating, nor sleeping or doing any physical work. Your body is at rest but your mind is not. No animal does too much thinking than what is necessary to interpret the inputs given by it&#x27;s senses and correlate them to any self-driven actions needed. When people see you as lost in some thought, the first instinct they get is a negative feeling. They think you are worried about something or something wrong happened. There are no positive feelings you can get when you see your loved ones in deep thought.<p>Humans developed thinking in order to gain more complex correlations to help them interpret their sensual inputs, such as correlating that plants need water. But this has gone too far due to availability of free time for humans. Lot of unnecessary thinking, called philosophy and science, happened.<p>Human society always hated thinkers. Thinking was called witchcraft and banished. Thinking makes a person get detached from people and surroundings around them. You stopped processing input from your senses. You stopped interacting with world outside. Instead, you got busy interacting with your inside. People get scared and do not trust you anymore. They don&#x27;t know what your thoughts are and how you are going to respond. Your thinking makes you an alien.<p>More importantly, thinking means you might not obey the commands from the community or group. Community requires simple thinking workers who think and act in expected ways, making it possible to have a strong community. Imagine some bees in a swarm do not follow the swarm movement, or ants in a line or fish in a school, birds in a flock. Community was always the real creature, not the individual humans. In many communities, individual persons do not have a name that is too distinct from family name. Family does the thinking, not individual people.
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jojohack4 months ago
&quot;Was it love or was it the idea of being in love?&quot; - &quot;One Slip&quot;, Pink Floyd
5cott04 months ago
ironically “pseudothinking” perfectly describe ea&#x2F;longtermism