College was my biggest mistake

Most articles and comments about higher education commit the gravest sin of thought: they assume what is right for one person (namely, the author) must be right for everyone.<p>I'm enrolled in a public institution pursuing a double major, working two jobs because I'm also middle class. I have a good -- not great -- GPA, and I get to do amazing and interesting things every day; I got into programming after volunteering with a CS major -- I learned about HN, ironically, from my Finance professor. After drudging through a K-12 curricula which routinely belittled the entire point of academia, I get to be surrounded by people who are just as hungry and passionate and brilliant as I am (often, they're more so.) It's unequivocally been the best three years of my life.<p>A lot of people are realizing college isn't a universal gateway to a better life, and that's good -- I don't particularly think it was meant to be one. I'm happy that the author made his way.<p>"College was my biggest mistake?" I'm glad you got out, then. But it sure as hell isn't mine.

Oh come on. I just feel like this is another in a series of "let's indict education" posts. I take issue with everything in here.<p>$44,000 a year for tuition, why? Why did you choose that school if you had no intention of studying? You can teach yourself more in an afternoon than in a 10-week class? Really, let's prove it. I want to see it.<p>You made basically all Fs but yet you can teach yourself more in an afternoon ... because you're better than others or something?<p>You happen to have chosen a field in which it is very easy to make a modest income, $60K, without actually having very much knowledge (not saying you didn't have <i>x</i> knowledge).<p>I mean, sure anyone that is not slobbering on themselves can probably follow a RoR YouTube and make a blog engine and then know enough to convince <i>someone</i> to pay them &#62;$50K. I don't know how long this is going to last though. But this is not much a real recipe for success in my opinion.<p>The idea that everyone can just teach themselves everything and that no one is actually learning any <i>content</i> in college, at best they are just learning "life skills" is just completely ridiculous.<p>I don't know, not to make another anecdote and I don't have hard data, but I have probably "self-taught" a lot more subjects than most that claim actually have and I wouldn't say I didn't learn any content from CS in college, not even close. In fact, <i>I</i> don't know any PhDs that would say they didn't learn any content (not just this life skills stuff) in college; I think it is just a fanciful notion and probably makes people feel better about themselves: "I'm Srinivasa Ramanujan, I don't need college to teach me anything."

If you could teach yourself in an afternoon what was covered in a 10 week class, then you probably wouldn't have failed out.<p>The same points I make on every post like this.<p>1) College isn't for everyone.<p>2) The 'I'm so smart that college was a waste of time' people should have just gotten a scholarship and not paid for college. 5 out of the 5 schools I officially applied to offered me scholarships. All were in the top 50 schools for my chosen major (originally, aerospace engineering). If you are smart enough that college is a waste of time, then you are also smart enough to not have to pay for college.<p>3) Don't extrapolate the computer science major to others. There are better books, tutorials, and online communities for hacking than seemingly any other profession. Try to find the "O'Reilly Press" of aerospace engineering pumping out 100 books a year on every imaginable topic - it just isn't happening. Same for StackOverflow, HN, etc.<p>4) Don't extrapolate the software engineering profession to others. It's normal for non-CS majors to be getting software engineering jobs. I personally graduated with a mechanical engineering major and CS minor. I'm now working in software engineering. The company I just left (where I worked as a mechanical engineer) would never, ever, hire a computer science major to fill a mechanical engineering job. The only three possible majors other than ME that they would hire are math, physics, or aerospace engineering.<p>5) If you don't do well, college is a waste of time &#38; money.

Paying $44k a year to not go to any of your classes was indeed a big mistake.<p>I could tell you another story about how I decided to take on a stupid amount of debt for school, but -- in the face of a lifetime of certain poverty -- the people I grew to know and the projects I actively pursued and worked hard on led me to a fulfilling life and a job that I love that covers my loans with ease.<p>There is a point in this post somewhere: asking 18 year olds to decide whether or not taking on crushing debt to attend classes they aren't sure they want to take (or even which ones they should take) is not a great thing to bet our economy and our children on. I don't really have an answer for communicating to someone just leaving home that the amount of money they're paying isn't worth it, though. Several people said it to me, but it was so abstract to me it was easy not to care.<p>In any case, anecdotes can give us guidance in our own lives (and crucially, they can provide us hope as we walk into an interview or open a late payment notice from sallie mae), but they're a pretty poor decision basis if we're aiming toward a societal optimum here.

Sorry -- I don't like these kinds of posts. They just incite the same sort of college-vs-no-college debate I've heard a million times. I think there's some kind of "hacker" pride that makes people act as if not attending college is "bucking the system" or circumventing some dumb thing the Man tells you that you have to do in order to succeed. It's not.<p>One size doesn't fit all. If not going to college works better -- do that. If going to college works better -- do that. I did both, sort of: I went to college but studied literature and philosophy as an undergraduate while working tech jobs to pay the bills. I loved my classes but also self-taught myself the skills I used for work. And I got exposed to a lot of stuff that I never would have learned if I had just worked and not taken those classes. That worked for me.<p>I'm not sure what we're supposed to get out of some single anecdotal experience that this guy didn't go to college and turned out okay. Except to say: I'm happy that's the case! Self-education rules.<p>Also: Can we please stop acting like college <i>has</i> to cost $44k/yr. It doesn't. State schools. They rule. They're relatively cheap. If you're unsure about college then, yes, going $200k in debt over something you're not sure you want is dumb. Especially when there are cheaper options.<p>Thank you. Drive safe.

Not getting a CS education was my biggest mistake.<p>I got most of a Finance degree, then dropped out when I ran out of money and found out people would pay decent money to a relatively inexperienced programmer. I'm happy with the way things have turned out for me career-wise - I think I'm a pretty competent developer and have a decent income and good future prospects - but I feel like there are opportunities that I'm much less likely to be able to take advantage of because I've mostly learned things as I've needed them.<p>Yes, I can (and am) independently learn everything you would in a CS program, but it is much more difficult, and the piece of paper is sometimes useful, too. Yes, plenty of folks get by without one, but I hope people don't get the idea that because they can teach themselves to throw together a website, they won't learn anything from a CS program - when I was 18, I had this idea that CS degrees taught outdated and relatively useless information, which I now believe to be false.<p>Even beyond the core CS curriculum, there are a lot of benefits to attending college - I feel like I at least got some of those by completing most of a degree.<p>It is certainly valid for some people to skip college, and that's fine, I just hope that all of this anti-college sentiment we've seen recently isn't just going to create another generation of people like me who regret thinking they didn't need the formal CS education.

The most interesting thing about this is the feedback loop. These kind of stories seem to strike a chord and in turn more people will post about this.<p>Yet the discussion always goes along the same lines. The problem is that all of these are unavoidably anecdotal in nature and thus something that is basically impossible to discuss.<p>Sure, it might have worked out for some and might not have worked out for others. The problem is that everyone has their own experience with this, which basically confirms or denies other anecdotal evidence.<p>These posts pop on HN a lot, yet I find them useless. Sure it worked out (or didn't), but nobody is able to tell how things would have been if the poster had stayed in college (or in other cases, if he had left college).<p>All these submissions seem to do is get the "anti-college" crowd on here happy, giving them more anecdotal evidence that <i>really, see, all I ever said is right because that dude had a similar experience</i> while at the same time bringing out everyone for whom college did do something to scream at those who disagrees.<p>Repeat ad infinitum...

<i>Classes didn’t hold my attention- I could teach myself more in an afternoon than I would learn in a 10-week class.</i><p>If this were true then you would have spent four afternoons learning Calculus, Business, Communications, and Databases, and another four afternoons showing up for the finals, and you would have gotten a 3.0 instead of a 0.3.

I feel like everything I read nowadays on this topic has had the tone of "don't go to college it's a waste of time" etc etc. While I agree it's definitely not for everybody, I don't agree with it being a waste of time or that nobody should go to school (even if you're not pursue a career a law/medicine/etc).<p>I have self-taught myself everything I've learned in software engineering, beginning in middle school when I picked up a VB6 book. Then through high school/college with some C++, Delphi, and then eventually moving to the LAMP stack and beyond. Although even before getting into college I knew exactly what I wanted to do (I was bitten by the entrepreneurial bug early in my high school years) and knew college wasn't going to do much in helping me achieve my dreams, I was still excited for those 4 years.<p>I wanted to have that college experience rather than looking back years later in life and saying "man I wish I got to see what that was like." But more importantly than the experience of college, I wanted to learn things I knew I'd seldom get the chance to later on in life, such as philosophy, art, history, astronomy, finance, theology, etc. While many argue that you can learn those things on your own without having to go to college, and yes I agree anyone can order an eBook or go to your locally library and pick up a bunch of books on those various topics, but it won't be the same as getting taught by a professor who has spent a great part of their life learning, teaching, researching and working in those various fields.<p>My goals in life have been not only to be a successful entrepreneur and a great engineer, but to also be a knowledgable man overall, one who is well versed in a number of topics. And while college won't give you all of that in 4 years, it'll definitely help you get started on your journey.

I often wonder how many people who write these kinds of posts actually benefitted greatly from college in ways they don't understand. For example, most people who didn't go to college can't write a blog post like this one.<p>In short, I think most people who can write great posts about how college didn't help them actually gained a lot of their most valuable (if intangible) skills from their college experience.

It seems like most of the people who complain about college received poor education or were not receptive to education in the first place.<p>College isn't for everyone but there are a great number of us whose lives have been greatly enriched by our years at good liberal arts colleges. If you're evaluating college through the lens of some kind of personal business plan then it's not a clear win but if you care about the life of the mind there are few substitutes to studying with your peers under passionate dedicated professors.<p>Whether or not someone should go to *IT or get a CS degree so that they can pursue a technical career is mostly a function of the person and their capacity to engage in self-directed learning.

"I could teach myself more in an afternoon than I would learn in a 10-week class."<p>This is either outright bullshit, or your college was complete crap. Most likely the former.<p>Don't do this. You think you're gaining respect or credibility, but in actuality you're losing it.

I am currently receiving an education in computer science with the intent to pursue a Ph.D. following graduation. I grow somewhat tired of all this anti-college talk - at the bike shop a while back, the worker asked what I was majoring in, I told him CS, and he asked if getting a college degree was really worth it, as if he thought it wasn't. Yes, it's worth it if what you plan to do is go to grad school or enter academia. It's worth it because it's the only feasible way to do this. It's worth it because my current presence on a university campus gives me opportunities for research and for invaluable interactions with faculty and fellow students.<p>I understand that the backlash is mostly driven by the observation that increasingly, people are pursuing expensive college degrees only to end up working at Starbucks, simply because they have been made to believe that it is in some way "the thing to do". But college is still worth it and a good idea for a great many types of people, not the least of which are programmers (as distinct from computer scientists). An education in CS is almost certainly one of the best things someone who hopes to be a programmer can obtain.

<i>Success is sitting right infront of you.</i><p>But if he'd finished college, he'd know that "infront" is two words!<p>But in all honesty, I also dropped out of college and I agree with the sentiment of this post wholeheartedly.<p>In fact, I might go a step further and say that the fear and uncertainty that came with not having a degree actually pushed me to hustle harder than I think I would've otherwise.

It could be worse, you could have started law school circa 2006.<p>3 years completely wasted, vis-a-vis programming and arguably just about the whole tech universe, $150,000 in tuition. After that you get a degree that serves as an entrance to a profession that is extremely economically depressed, near universally reviled, and the few jobs there are have terrible working conditions and are filled with unhappy people.<p>Live, learn, and try and pass on some hard won lessons.

Sounds like one lazy and irresponsible student to me. It's great that you made it. More power to you for that. But why did you waste your money if you were not gonna do the work? Doesn't matter how scared you were from your parents. You dropped out and then decided to grow up. I'm a guy that does NOT believe college is for everyone.

The problem with this line of argument is that it is anecdotal. Yes, it’s great that this guy has gone on to earn a lot of money, but that result is not typical.<p>This is the data from Australia:<p>Over the working lifetime of a university graduate the financial gain generated from income is more than $1.5 million or 70 per cent more than those whose highest qualification is Year 12, even after taking into account the foregone earnings of students while they study. (<a href="http://www.youth.nsw.gov.au/__data/page/1165/whatpricetheclevercountry.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.youth.nsw.gov.au/__data/page/1165/whatpricethecle...</a>)<p>Bruce Chapman, the designer of Australia's income contingent education loan system, found that the Return on Investment of higher education in Australia is between 10 and 6 per cent. (<a href="http://vital.new.voced.edu.au/vital/access/services/Download/ngv:25834/SOURCE2" rel="nofollow">http://vital.new.voced.edu.au/vital/access/services/Download...</a>)

College was actually exactly what this guy needed. He found his passion, discovered what did and did not work for him in terms of learning, and managed to enter the job market at a time where people with his level of experience and expertise could demand salary like what he has now. Offsetting a few years in either direction and he likely would have entered the job market at a very BAD time for people without college degrees.<p>"I'm in the middle of college but like work a lot better, I'll finish someday" is very different than "I never went to college, and spent the last few years making ends meat. I programed at home, and I'm great. Give me $100k." Pretending those are the same is just intellectually dishonest.<p>If he thinks college was his biggest mistake and he's doing really well after doing some college (and still trading on college acceptance/progress as part of his contract negotiation), well that's just a poor understanding of cause and effect.

I studied aerospace engineering at college. I think it was great.<p>When faced with a large amount of work to do, it's easy to dismiss it. It's not so easy to actually do it. When I realised that (unlike high school) I actually had to do work to pass (and letting down extended family by failing wasn't really an option), I managed to work out how to apply myself to things that I didn't necessarily enjoy. Interestingly, when you actually apply yourself to a course what once seemed like a pile of uninteresting work to slog through starts to become interesting.<p>I've had plenty of courses that I wouldn't have learnt about myself. It's not until you force yourself to spend a semester studying something that you realise just how useful it can be in other areas of your life.<p>It was only really the last two years of my degree that I went from sort-of enjoying it to truly enjoying it. Sometimes there's a bit of a slog to get through before you can do interesting things. Engineering degrees (and probably computer science degrees) are like that. You have to learn the (often dull) basics before you learn the interesting things. The author makes the mistake of assuming that their experience (one year of OK performance followed by a year of not going to classes) is indicative of the college experience. That's not necessarily true.<p>Beyond academics, I got so much out of college in many ways. The ability to spend a year studying in another country, the wide range of people I met, the opportunities that I had to work with lots of people on interesting projects. College isn't just about going to classes and doing exams.<p>My degree didn't cost nearly as much as the authors one would have. I don't think I would have paid $40,000/year for my degree. However, there's plenty of options that don't cost that much that offer the same (or similar) teaching experience. I completely agree that college isn't for everyone, but I don't think the author really addresses why. What the article really says is that they didn't apply themselves very well to hard topics that they weren't interested in. Unfortunately not everything is instantly fun.

I commend Steve's effort and hard work.<p>I am a dropout; and we have recruited dropouts, engineering graduates, MBAs and students pursuing a degree distance a learning program at our startup. The best recruits were actually the distance learning students and dropouts by far.<p>I always recommend young hackers to take a year or two off before going to college and figure out what they want to do. For most jobs in Internet, a University degree is hardly helpful.<p>In fact, you can actually learn more by working at start for a year than you would learn in 4 years in college. An undergraduate programmer who can network his way to a job can get salary similar to graduates. The only challenge will be to network and demonstrate your skills because recruiters won't be selling you.

As a European I find that the sheer amount of money required to get higher education in the US is absolutely crazy. In most (if not all) of Europe, universities are paid from tax payers money and are basically free for all who have the necessary qualification to attend them.<p>That shows though. I have the impression that you can make rather decent money in the US without ever going to college but there's not a glimpse of hope for you to do that in Europe. Without at least a minor in something you'll top out at about 2.5k€/month (that's an annual salary of abour 35000$) being employed anywhere. So, all in all, you're <i>expected</i> to go to university.<p>Oh and btw, going to university was in fact a great idea for me, personally.

$44k a year for tuition is ridiculous and entirely not worth it if your primary goal is to get a job that does not require a college degree.<p>However, paying a reasonable amount for tuition with the goal of personal enrichment and/or getting a job that requires a college degree is certainly worth it.<p>As a current college student and part-time developer, I feel like college was a great choice for me-- even though I could've landed a full-time programming job without it. Although the curriculum can be monotonous at times, just having the chance to talk and work with other computer science students on a daily basis has been enlightening.<p>Yes, you can teach yourself programming-- but college can help (really!).

Going to college (as an adult) was by far the best thing I have ever done for myself.<p>I already had a career and thought I knew it all but the experience of working on theory and mixing in with some seriously smart people really pushed me to places that I would never have gotten to on my own.<p>Also I owe much of my current success to the relationships I formed during my time at university.

I'm in the same boat as the OP: I've been in school for 3 years but everything I know comes from teaching myself. I dropped out and started teaching myself rails/html/css and I'm currently looking for a programming gig(hopefully in a startup). I agree with the OP's sentiment that you shouldn't go for a college degree unless you're looking to work in something that requires credibility(law, medical, etc) and I always tell Highschool graduates about the many options they can pursue without having to waste money paying for a diluted and meaningless education.

This article is awesome.<p>If people don't want it to be advice, then don't take it as advice. It's just another anecdote to put inside your little book of anecdotes.<p>The thing is, the OP is targeting his advice at people who are in similar situations to him - people who know that university is moving too slowly, is too expensive, and not right for them.<p>His advice clearly isn't prescriptive to everyone. It is worth noting his circumstances. He may not have had the opportunity to attend a university that stimulated him. Attending a State College may have been cheaper, but even worse from a quality perspective.<p>Nobody knows. Point is, instead of judging the guy, why don't you read the piece for what it is - a story about how, for some people (and an increasing number of people at that), college is their biggest mistake. And you will notice that the title reads 'College is <i>my</i> biggest mistake' - not necessarily <i>yours</i>.<p>ps Statistics about populations of people who don't graduate are useless, as it clearly includes all sorts of idiots, drug addicts and fools who are on the wrong side of the bell curve. Show me statistics on people who drop out of degrees two years in to pursue entrepreneurial opportunities vs the graduating population and I might pay attention.

It's kinda sad that you have to pay that much for an education. In other countries, for example in Scandinavia, higher education is free (with the cost of higher taxes of course). Although, some people in IT still choose to skip it. It shows.

Not that this is a particularly insightful point, but I keep wondering, why does it never come up in these discussions that college is FUN? Regardless of its financial value or lack thereof, it really is an experience like no other.

As someone who failed every aspect of my education in high school with exception for music, English and the boringly easy to pass computer classes this resonates with me so much. I had always shared an interest in computers and electronics as a kid, but never went to college or undertook any secondary education whatsoever.<p>I went from having nothing to living comfortably and I'm still in my early 20's without a college education and don't plan on getting one. I work alongside people who spent 4 to 6 years studying to work where they are now and it feels nice knowing I didn't have to get in large amounts of debt to get to the same place as they did.<p>You definitely need to be able to sell yourself though. Every employer I've ever worked with has been impressed when I tell what got me into development was building a gaming clan website for a Tony Hawks Underground 2 game clan and I kept learning from then on.<p>This has inspired me to share my story which I'll write a blog post about shortly as well.

The only thing I feel I got from college is meeting my wife. Oh, well that and 85k in debt. I did graduate, with a 3.0, but the sentiment is the same. College hasn't done anything for my career so far.<p>That said, the whole "I can learn more in one afternoon vs a semester" is just dribble. Total BS. And turns me off to the whole message, sorry.

The real moral of the story: make most of the NOW.<p>You didn't do that in college, and failed.<p>You did that afterwards, and succeeded.

In my experience, I almost never look into "education" part of the CV when interviewing. I do ask questions which are taught in decent CS courses, but I couldn't care less, if the answer is right, about where it came from. Degree is just a piece of paper, it is knowledge and skills that matter.<p>I have a CS degree and I think it gave me a lot and helped a lot in my professional advancement. However, this way of learning is not for everybody, and I do see how somebody could have acquired the same knowledge and skills without any formal framework. I probably could not - and I know that if I join any formal framework, even free no-commitment one like Coursera - I learn much more effectively than if I just try to do it by myself. But for many people it is the opposite, and these people can be and often are more successful than I am.<p>So formal education is <i>very</i> useful - for some. For some it is not, so I completely understand why OP thinks it was his biggest mistake and I think he has made the right decision for him. I'd suggest him to try some free education though - like Coursera or many other major colleges have now free online course. You don't get the degree, but you do get the knowledge, and that's IMHO much more valuable.<p>OTOH, the formal degree may also be usable for some big companies and some other things (e.g. immigration, for those that want to live in different country than they were born in) - but one can do without it too.

The article seems to suppose that the purpose of education is a job. The purpose of education is not a job.

If you want to hustle, create great internet products and live a creative free, independent life then college and it's massive debt may not be right for you.<p>But if you want a lower risk, stable life with good long term prospects then college may not be such a bad idea.<p>One of the things college (actually my masters degree) taught me is that the answer to most important questions is 'it depends'. There is no one size fits all approach to most big decisions in life - that I think is wonderful because it leads to such diversity.

Of course "find your passion and the rest will follow" works great if your passion is for something that has a great market salary. What if your passion is sculpturing, or gardening?

For me personally, college wasn't about academic learning. It was about personal growth and making a lot of mistakes (and learning from them).<p>Before university I programmed for the love of coding. My four years at university ripped the programming soul out of me. A year after university I regained that love again and started learning on the job as an apprentice programmer.<p>Everything since then has been learnt off my own back, via the internet, or from my peers and work colleagues.<p>Education, especially learning how to develop software applications, is not taught well in traditional "red-brick" British universities. That may well have changed since my days some 20 years ago, but back then it was all theoretical lectures and very little practice. I was not inspired by anyone nor aspired to become anything better during those four years (from an academic perspective).<p>Don't get me wrong, university isn't a place where you get you should expect to be hand held through your studies. Personal drive is absolutely required. College isn't high school where you get hassled for your home work submissions. However, good mentors and inspirational tutors would have made the whole thing much more attractive.<p>That aside, there is one thing I have learnt that I would happily pass on; it is to never assume someone that didn't go to college isn't as smart as you are. I work with several very smart people. Regarding two in particular, one went to Oxford and the other didn't go to university at all. Both amaze me every day with their abilities to tackle hard technical problems.

I ended up paying $23k for a piece of paper that I'm pretty sure hasn't done me any good. I learned a little, but not much, and I could have learned it on my own anyhow. Most of it I already knew.<p>Yet I'm still not willing to say I wasted that time and money. There's still some chance that it'll turn out to be really valuable, and getting through the system helped with some of my issues with valuation of my own abilities.<p>When I eventually got a job, they didn't care about my paperwork. In fact, my resume was worse than the other candidate's, and they said so. What got me the job was the BrainBench tests they put me through. Without those, I would not have gotten that first job. (Actually, it was the second, but the first was rather non-traditional and <i>before</i> college.)<p>Anyhow, I think the value of these anecdotes is to let people know that there are alternatives to traditional education. It's not right for everyone, or even most people, but you shouldn't feel railroaded into it. If you have the skills to do the job already, you should <i>consider</i> just going and getting a job, instead.

I actually have never been in college nor in 'high school'. I have attended a secondary school in germany and continued with being chef. Later I started learning to program on my own, because computers have been always fascinating to me, especially writing software. By the age of 24 I applied for a free lance job. The company I have been working for has employed me after two months and let go all other freelancers :D Now 6 years later I am team leader in the development department of AVG Technologies. However now going to RedHat to pursue new paths :)<p>I can second that it is not really necessary to have a degree in computer science, maths or physics or anything to get a job. If you are good and you show passion you might get a job easier than you might think :-)<p>A little advice to Recruiters/HR people: Stop filtering out people based on their degrees, you're missing out on good opportunities by doing so.

I am astounded at the cost of college, just some 10 years after I started school. My first semester at a decent State university cost me something like $900. I even had a scholarship for enough to cover that semester from doing well on some standardized test. By the time I finished school a few years later It was about $1700 a semester (maybe not exactly, but close to double).<p>I can't imagine paying $44k for a bachelors degree in any subject. If that $44k only covers tuition, not books or cost of living, it is insane.<p>Why is going to a community college for the first one or two years of your higher education experience never promoted? It gives you a chance to see if you'll enjoy that 'college experience', you'll get to sit in a wide range of classes or relatively little money and if you want to continue you can then transfer out. I didn't take this path, but if I had to do it again I would.

The value of a university education does not principally lie in how much money you can make afterwards. Many people go to university to learn, to build a philosophy for life, to meet and engage with other engaged people.<p>But I paid orders of magnitude less so maybe that gives me the freedom to be more contemplative.

US college education is increasingly demanded even for middle class jobs. new generations will have a tougher time landing decent gigs as even the manufacturing jobs become more and more complex.<p>while software engineering is something that can be learned by reading a book and hacking away at home until one can get through a jr programmer interview, or maybe even pick up programming on your own to a higher degree, not everyone can learn this way, and not lots of jobs will require formal training.<p>i don't like when this is painted in black and white colors .. i.e. "college education is a waste of time and money" or.. "college education is a must" .. but i do think it will be in higher demand as more jobs become high tech, and we can't all be Steve Corona smart :)

Good God man.<p>I wasn't born in the US, but came over young. The whole college evaluation, application, and selection process was one giant set of mysteries to me. Yet, this is all about exactly those questions. At least I feel better, apparently I could've done a <i>lot</i> worse.<p>Cost - debt or opportunity cost of cash. Treat it as exactly that, a risk you're taking for some expected gain. A high-ranked, expensive school is only worth it if you're going to get something out of it. Your ability to withstand debt (or cash burned) is runway you can use for other things. I'm sorry this guy spent a mercedes benz on stuff he didn't want. But he shouldn't have spent a mercedes benz. My highest undergrad tuition over 4 years was $4k (after fees) per semester. Without a strong interest in a particular field that the school's well-known for, I don't see why it's worth it. And if you're not sure, there's always grad school. People tend to look only at the school of your last degree.<p>Specialization - I can't understand how people choose majors without looking <i>hard</i> at the ease of getting a job in the field, the effort spent in the degree, how much they like the topic, and the amount you can expect to make. Somehow it turned into a "what's your calling?" question, which is an asshole question to ask anyone, much less some poor 18 year old coming out of 12 years of highly homogenizing k-12.<p>Frankly, if I had supreme fascist control over a school, departments with poor (say, &#60;85% after 3 months of searching) hiring likelihood should charge double tuition, and require field-specific talent auditions like a good music school to get in. Waivers if it's a second degree, or a written letter of intent to go to law school after.<p>Finally, what happened to trade school? Les time, higher per-class-hour relevance to the primary goal, and it's a job you can explain to your friends. My CS dept had a 90% drop rate over 4 years (300 freshman, 30 graduating seniors). A lot of those kids would've been happier in trade school, instead of hopping over to business (or business IT). Paid at least as well, and with less debt.

There's something of a survivor bias to this story. That is to say, there are probably a lot more people who drop out of college and don't amount to very much. Those guys don't tend to shout from the rooftops very much. Which should mean applying his approach, to college, for our own situations it might not necessarily be wise.<p>Having said that, there are probably quite a lot of successful people who didn't amount to much in college. And I think being a free-thinking, rebel, hustler doesn't necessarily make a good student but might very well make a good captain of business. But how cool would it be to have/be both?<p>But he's right, if it's not for you it doesn't necessarily mean you've failed.

You people had to spend 100k+ on a college education to learn "humanities" and how to be social?!? You don't think you would have "grown as a person" if you hadn't gone to college?! This.is.horrifying. If you do anything Please do one of the following: Talk to a real life person, visit a library, read a book about something other than vampires, and most importantly- GET OUT AND SEE THE WORLD! The author is challenging you to take a good look at your path in life and make the best choice for YOU. He's not saying all of us degree carrying people are idiots. He even acknowledges that plenty of careers need a degree. Maybe some of you SHOULD stay in school...

Mac OS X: Avadis Tevanian - B.A. in Mathematics from the University of Rochester, and his M.S. and Ph.D. degrees in computer science from Carnegie Mellon University<p>Python: Guido van Rossum - masters degree in mathematics and computer science from the University of Amsterdam<p>Ruby on Rails: David Heinemeier Hansson - bachelor's degree in Computer Science<p>Ruby: Yukihiro Matsumoto - He graduated with an information science degree from University of Tsukuba<p>Linux: Linus Torvalds - master's degree in computer science from NODES research group<p>SpaceX: Elon Musk - From the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania, he received an undergraduate degree in Economics, and stayed on another year to finish a second bachelor's degree in physics.<p>...I could go on

I think this link started out as a post here on hn[1]. I'm not sure why the author insists on using $175k in debt as a strawman for the discussion. In the earlier thread on HN he stated that $100k, not $175k, was the actual debt figure he was confronted with. It is unfortunate because the discussion of higher-ed/debt is an important topic (I dropped out of law school for similar reasons) and the inflated debt figure needlessly cheapens the discussion.<p>[1] <a href="http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4332885" rel="nofollow">http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4332885</a>

It is possible to get by without documentation backing up your experience, but having an education doesn't close doors, and not having an education will close some doors.<p>Yes, fine, many times, in the right market, with the right skill set, you can rely on high demand and great ability to sell yourself, but my college education means that I can change country and get a cushy job at whim, even in a totally shitty economy, with very little effort (but the education took a lot of effort).

It might not be for everyone, but a college with courses like "World of Business" and "Data Base Concepts" is laughable as all hell anyway. At least go to a real college.

There is always an opportunity cost. I did a startup over last summer and dropped out to focus on it, and I have learned exponentially more since being out. I still advocate an education, because I wouldn't have had the base to learn on my own after that. Being a self funded scientist rather than a student has been more more interesting/beneficial. I still learn every day (business and tech side..)

Like most things, you get what you put into college. If you aren't going into it with the idea that you want to be there, chances are you won't come away with as positive an outlook as somebody who did want to be there. With that in mind, I think the title should be "Don't spend money on things you don't want to do" but then, I guess nobody would click on the link...

"I could teach myself more in an afternoon than I would learn in a 10-week class"... depends on what you consider "learning". Of course you don't need to go to any class to learn Rails and get a pay check. To learn hundred other life skills you need to go to class. You are equating "success" with size of pay check. That might not be the measure for many.

i both agree and disagree.<p>if IT sector wouldn't be so hungry for developers, author of this article would be called at minimum insane when he asked 100k salary. and it isn't some constant thing. i think that if now would be bubble burst in IT sector, this author would continue to work for 10$ per hour.<p>i agree with main idea, that college should not be mandatory thing in everybody's life - all job market should be in balance : somebody must work lower-level work, somebody has to do programming, managing, financing. if everybody would be with Professor-level education, who would clean toilets in restaurants?

Yup. Go 1-2 years, take as many higher level classes as you can, meet people, begin to learn world != high school, hustle for that first job.<p>It also helps if economy isn't in shitter like it has been for many years.

OP, you are my inspiration from now on. I'm in a very similar situation. And you've just given me some hope. And thanks for that. I'll strive to teach myself more stuff.

I really wish people the best in their careers. As far as attending college, I know the things that you don't and won't and that is good enough for me.

Just because you fail at something doesn't mean you didn't learn or gain something from it.<p>Failing college could be the reason why he is so successful.

just goes to show how over-inflated salaries for programmers are. it is not rocket science anymore.<p>actual rocket science though? good luck without an actual education.<p>and i sure hope as hell that this mindset doesn't reach the medical field. studying to be a surgeon? i taught myself...yeah, sure...

Does anyone know if this blog is a Tumblr? I just like the layout. Thanks.

College rocked! I dorked out with some really smart people, learned a fuckton, got laid somehow, and after paying teh dues got a fabulous job. At the time, state school didn't cost so much, so no debt! Blah dee blah, good for you no-college man.

I'm less likely to use twitpic now from the tone of this article.

it's all a question of : did you learn the <i>right thing, or meet the </i>right people.<p>i did both outside of college, while attending it. So it's not my biggest mistake.

More challenging colleges teach you far more than you can teach yourselves.<p>A top 5 computer science school churns out a much more capable and knowledgeable computer science major who is both well versed in theory and knows how computers actually works down to the bytes.<p>Kudos to the writer, his ability to hustle is strong. There is more than one kind of talent.

I'd like to see some of the code that this guy has written. He said he can learn more in an afternoon than a whole class? HA! He's confidant I'll grant him that. But also a deceiver. But perhaps the good kind of deceiver. Press him to cut some code, and in an instant will get some other poor programmer to do it for him. There are plenty of good rule-following programmers out there to purchase... For a salary.<p>I respect people like this because without them, there would be no companies to work for. Someone has to get pissed off with the way things are, and go out and BUILD something great. But he doesn't come across as a rule following person. We need their charisma and confidence, but without someone to cut the code and do the job, it will be like the cure for cancer, constant vaporware. The substance of venture capitalist's nightmares.<p>We need people like him, but we have to understand he isn't the generative force in the world, he's the scrappy leader. Hopefully his defiant vision for the world is good. Else he'll get his big bubble popped and end up looking for a job without a degree. And I don't wish that on any passionate-for-learning people.

He has a story very similar to mine, but I don't really use my personal anecdotes to give other people advice.<p>And yeah, that first job where I started making decent money after years of minimum wage?<p>Just like winning the powerball.<p>I'm very happy and grateful for what I have, but I'm even more grateful I joined a startup of such great people.

Lol! "I could teach myself more in an afternoon than I would learn in a 10-week class." Really genius? "Calculus B: F" Any it says <i>repeated</i>! Why didn't you take five afternoons and graduate then?<p>It is a well-known fact that becoming a "high-level" web programmer doesn't require brains or a degree. Now this post makes it clear that, even such people who miserably fail to get a degree can write PHP programs and Javascript.

I'm so tired of these articles from people that didn't even make it in college who are so proud to proclaim what a waste college is. Or that having skills means getting a job.<p>I knew rails and linux and a half a dozen other things and had built a product for a client before graduating highschool. I also lived in the middle of no-where in the Midwest.