TE
TechEcho
Home24h TopNewestBestAskShowJobs
GitHubTwitter
Home

TechEcho

A tech news platform built with Next.js, providing global tech news and discussions.

GitHubTwitter

Home

HomeNewestBestAskShowJobs

Resources

HackerNews APIOriginal HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 TechEcho. All rights reserved.

ViaCycle (YC S12) Is A Zipcar For Bikes, Coming To San Francisco Soon

150 pointsby kojialmost 13 years ago

27 comments

jelliclealmost 13 years ago
I love the idea, but it's doomed to failure.<p>I live in a city with a bike-sharing system. It's deeply unprofitable and exists only at the sufferance of the city government. There are a number of flaws. Number 1 is that people who ride bikes don't rent them, they own them. For $100 anyone can purchase a bicycle that will last indefinitely and be available 24/7/365. Number 2 is that people vandalize the shit out of bicycles. Seats will be stolen, tires slashed, bicycles thrown in the river, cables cut. You're free to go after this sort of bicycle since it has no owner - no one is going to come storming out of a nearby store and kick your ass. Crackheads will steal a bicycle seat and try to sell it for $5 to get a hit of crack - I have watched them do it. We live in a world where people are routinely electrocuted trying to steal copper from live power wires and blown up stealing gasoline from pipelines. Those bikes might as well have a sign on them saying "steal me". If even ONE of the components can be removed and sold for a few dollars...<p><a href="http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/pariss-pedal-power-sets-free-uncivilized-behaviour/article1186322/" rel="nofollow">http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/pariss-pedal-power...</a><p><a href="http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2009/06/26/montreal-missing-bixi-bikes.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2009/06/26/mont...</a><p>Combining high cost of bicycles, ongoing cost to repair/replace/corral wayward bicycles, and low cost of the alternative (owning a bicycle), there is just no chance that this can be a successful business. You will recall people talking about the future of electricity, as being "too cheap to meter". Well, electricity never made it that far, but time on a bicycle did. Bicycle-time is too cheap to meter.<p>(There may be some future for the company selling to cities or other large entities which intend to subsidize all the costs associated, but it can never be successful as a stand-alone business.)
评论 #4387144 未加载
评论 #4387079 未加载
评论 #4387120 未加载
评论 #4387070 未加载
评论 #4387135 未加载
评论 #4387550 未加载
评论 #4387271 未加载
评论 #4387350 未加载
评论 #4387103 未加载
评论 #4387172 未加载
评论 #4387707 未加载
评论 #4389649 未加载
评论 #4387693 未加载
评论 #4387625 未加载
评论 #4387068 未加载
评论 #4387324 未加载
评论 #4387737 未加载
jhuckesteinalmost 13 years ago
In Germany we have a system like this called call-a-bike (it's run by the german railway!). It works surprisingly well. You're allowed to leave the bikes wherever you want and if they are left unused for a while a truck will come and move them back to a central location.<p>I really like what via cycle has done with the SMS unlocking. Back when I was in Germany, almost three years ago now (!), you had to call a service line to find/unlock a bike. Late at night there were usually wait times and it was especially difficult to manage the entire process if you were a little tipsy.<p>There's similar systems in many other European countries. I hear great things about a system in France called velib (I think).<p><i>Edit: I forgot to mention, the German bikes also have a second seat on the back. I'm not sure from the picture if this is also true for viaCycle but it's definitely one of the best features. Here's a picture <a href="http://www.pedelecforum.de/forum/imgcache/5382.png*" rel="nofollow">http://www.pedelecforum.de/forum/imgcache/5382.png*</a>
评论 #4386902 未加载
评论 #4387012 未加载
crazygringoalmost 13 years ago
How are they going to deal with the fact that demand is not geographically distributed/balanced?<p>E.g. everyone wants to ride towards downtown in the morning, so there are no bikes left elsewhere, and there isn't enough space downtown to hold all the bikes. And only 2/3 of the morning people want to ride back in the evening, because they're doing other things in the evening.<p>IIRC, some European cities have whole trucks that carry bikes between neighborhoods throughout the day to solve this problem. But that only works if you have big concentrated bike-parking stations. You can't do this if bikes are parked all over the place on the street.<p>It would be really interesting if this service would pay <i>you</i> to ride bikes in the opposite direction of demand. But I can't imagine that would be economical. There just aren't enough people to bike from downtown to the suburbs in the morning, plus you're going to have to pay for them all to get back downtown afterwards!
评论 #4387663 未加载
graemealmost 13 years ago
Interesting. I'm in Montreal, the birthplace of Bixi, which runs the London bike share program, and the upcoming NYC program as well as many others. Works fairly well, but apart from the cost the docking stations cost the city parking revenue.<p>One major administrative cost is moving bikes around. People tend to take them downtown during the day, and out of the town at night. Even if you don't need docks, you still have to move bikes.
评论 #4386943 未加载
评论 #4386974 未加载
orang55almost 13 years ago
Yes, the cost of installing a Bixi-like system is fairly expensive.<p>However, when you're talking about transportation systems, Bikesharing is an absolute steal. Repaving a city street costs $338,000 per mile. A city bus costs anywhere from $500-750,000. Subway cars and commuter railcars run in the range of $2 million <i>each</i>.<p>A 15-dock bikesharing station plus 8 bikes costs as much as a Lexus. <a href="http://www.capitalbikeshare.com/assets/pdf/cabi_station_sponsorship_flyer.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.capitalbikeshare.com/assets/pdf/cabi_station_spon...</a><p>Washington, DC built its entire bikesharing system for somewhere between $6 and $10 million. That's way less than the cost of a single 8-car Metro train.<p>If we're talking about a system for a large city, the infrastructure costs are low enough as to be irrelevant. If the system can cover its operating costs (which DC's does, even at a surprisingly-high $1,860/bike/year cost), it's basically a slam-dunk.<p>The bigger challenge will come from figuring out how to scale the system out into the suburbs.<p>The problems associated with a decentralized system such as ViaCycle (difficult to attract causal users/tourists, significantly more prone to theft, much more difficult to redistribute, similar maintenance costs, more expensive bikes) don't seem to compensate for the reduced capital costs.
评论 #4390062 未加载
gojomoalmost 13 years ago
Clearly, the time is almost right for my 'next wave' collaborative consumption startups:<p><i>UnterCab</i>: the Uber for pedicabs and piggyback-rides<p><i>SmallBearings</i>: the RelayRides for rollerskates &#38; skateboards<p><i>Hoparound</i>: that seldom-used pogostick doesn't have to be gathering dust anymore
评论 #4387538 未加载
physcabalmost 13 years ago
ViaCycle should sell its locking system then anyone with an unused bike can participate in the program!
评论 #4386997 未加载
评论 #4387006 未加载
carlobalmost 13 years ago
I love bikes. I love the idea. I've loved living in Paris where a similar system was in place (Vélib').<p>However I think this is a textbook example of the shortcomings of capitalism: while it is great for everyone to live in a city where you can use such a bike, there is no way in hell this will pay for itself.<p>JCDecaux operates the Vélib' system and was estimated to get the equivalent of 2000 euros per bike per year in advertising concessions from Paris' municipality [1] and still not to make a profit.<p>As pointed out by others there are very high running costs and I believe the only viable way to pay for this is through taxes. I also believe taxes are the only just way to pay for it, because everyone benefits from living in a city with more bikes and less cars not only the users.<p>Again, I'd love to be proven wrong and see SF become a greener city through this, but I'm a bit skeptical.<p>[1] in French <a href="http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vélib%27#Viabilit.C3.A9" rel="nofollow">http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vélib%27#Viabilit.C3.A9</a>
jasonkesteralmost 13 years ago
This is pretty common in Europe, and as mentioned elsewhere here, somewhat doomed. I couldn't find anything in the linked article explaining how the founders hope to improve on those programs.<p>In particular, I'm curious to see how they plan to avoid the "Velib Extreme" phenomenon:<p><a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7881079.stm" rel="nofollow">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7881079.stm</a><p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afE44cHNkEg" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afE44cHNkEg</a>
makmanalpalmost 13 years ago
We got this in Boston / Cambridge / Somerville: <a href="http://www.thehubway.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.thehubway.com/</a>
maartenschollalmost 13 years ago
Concerning the design of the bikes, I think there is still room for improvement. The designers can look at the design of the Public Transportation Bike ("OV-Fiets") in the Netherlands[1] which was a major success in a country where there already were more bikes than people before it's introduction.<p>For a bike that is available 24 you would want a bicycle lamp on the front with a dynamo instead of just reflectors. This is a safety concern because reflectors have proven to be unreliable to signal other road users.<p>The bike doesn't have any mudguards but I suspect the weather in SF allows that :).<p>The carrier on the back wheel doesn't look that sturdy and there is a large gap in the middle. A front rack to place heavier cargo on could be a benefit.<p>What about bright colors so the bike stands out?<p>[1]<a href="http://www.ov-fiets.nl/binaries/content/gallery/OV-fiets/nieuwsbrieven/zakelijk/vrouwopfiets_270_211px.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://www.ov-fiets.nl/binaries/content/gallery/OV-fiets/nie...</a>
评论 #4387753 未加载
评论 #4387425 未加载
elmarschramlalmost 13 years ago
Bike-for-hire systems are like public transport: hard to run at a profit, but useful for a city to have. Most systems I know (Velib in Paris, Callabike in Munich) are very popular, but effectively run and subsidized by the government.<p>ViaCycle does not plant to operate the bikeshare, but providing the bike infrastructure for the operator. Which is a smart move - because a) being the operator is unprofitable and b) operators probably dont want to deal with the bike tech.<p>I would love to see a standardized, mass-produced bike intended for rent-a-bike services. It's really a different kind of bike - you need excellent protection against vandalism and theft more than sportiness or low weight. Also, each system currently has its own GPS/Phone tracking and hire system. If a company liek ViaCycle provides a cheaper, standardized system, it would probably lower the cost of runing a bike-for-hire system quite a bit.
kurtvarneralmost 13 years ago
Their pricing structure seems super confusing. There's two full paragraphs talking about it.
评论 #4386995 未加载
jasonlotitoalmost 13 years ago
First thing I thought of is Bixi up in Montreal (and in Toronto, London, and Ottawa).
extraioalmost 13 years ago
I'm wondering what happens when someone gets hit by a car and complains that the bike didn't include a helmet.<p>Don't get me wrong. I love the idea in every way, shape, and form - but I have serious questions about the legal safety issues.
评论 #4387505 未加载
评论 #4387014 未加载
评论 #4387032 未加载
koenigdavidmjalmost 13 years ago
Puget Sound Bike Share ( <a href="http://pugetsoundbikeshare.org/" rel="nofollow">http://pugetsoundbikeshare.org/</a> ) is in the early planning stages of getting something similar set up in Seattle.
评论 #4386977 未加载
评论 #4386869 未加载
评论 #4386916 未加载
评论 #4386941 未加载
lucaspilleralmost 13 years ago
In the past I've used the government funded hire schemes in London and Dublin extensively and have had good experiences with them. I know how much they cost, so I'm happy to see an alternative.<p>The only issue I see with this is that it looks particularly easy to remove their locking system. It uses a chain lock, so what is to stop me from "locking" it without putting the chain through the wheel? From there is looks easy to remove their hardware with a spanner as it seems to just be attached to the pannier rack mounting points.
rsbrownalmost 13 years ago
Yo, ViaCycle team: stop what you're doing right now and get an email signup form deployed to your homepage ASAP.<p>I saw the headline, read the article, got excited, landed on the homepage, looked for San Francisco on the list of programs... then left the site, disappointed. You won't get a lot of opportunities to capture customers like the one you just got (and lost) with me.<p>Use mailchimp or something similar and you can fill this deficiency in a few minutes.
评论 #4387595 未加载
mmahemoffalmost 13 years ago
"In addition, there is also an upfront cost of about $1,000 to $1,500 for every bike."<p>A recent article from the Economist says London's bikes cost average price is £14,460/bike each, subsidised by government and advertising. Companies like ViaCycle will hopefully drop the price of these schemes. <a href="http://www.economist.com/node/21557527" rel="nofollow">http://www.economist.com/node/21557527</a>
评论 #4387325 未加载
schiffernalmost 13 years ago
Seems very similar to SoBi's offering. SoBi has the advantage of built-in vandalism detection, welded on GPS tracker (it looks like ViaCycle's is bolted on), a sealed shaft-driven drivetrain, and a more durable frame geometry.<p><a href="http://socialbicycles.com/" rel="nofollow">http://socialbicycles.com/</a><p>Exciting times. It looks like the next generation of bike sharing systems is arriving.
评论 #4387833 未加载
codegeekalmost 13 years ago
About time. In the US, we seriously need more emphasis on bikes and encouraging people to use them for shorter commutes. We either have to drive or walk (mostly). I once met a european lady (from Amsterdam I think) who would not stop talking about how behind the US in terms of bike culture, hardly any bike lanes on roads etc.
评论 #4387134 未加载
maccam94almost 13 years ago
We just got a similar system in Boston: <a href="http://www.thehubway.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.thehubway.com/</a>
chollida1almost 13 years ago
Good luck<p>We have this type of system( Bixi) in Toronto. When I first heard of it I kind-of sneered at it. I wasn't sure who would actually use this system.<p>But it's pretty popular. Not sure if it makes any money though.
avreealmost 13 years ago
There's a company doing this peer-to-peer (like Getaround, but for bikes) called Spinlister. <a href="https://www.spinlister.com/" rel="nofollow">https://www.spinlister.com/</a>
评论 #4387124 未加载
dougzoralmost 13 years ago
This reminds me some of WeBike: <a href="http://webikedoyou.com/" rel="nofollow">http://webikedoyou.com/</a><p>Regardless, glad to see some fellow Yellow Jackets doing well! Good luck guys!
parsnipsalmost 13 years ago
How do they tackle the stolen/abandoned/damaged bike problems that plague every community bike program?
评论 #4386944 未加载
manaskarekaralmost 13 years ago
I wonder if they considered calling themselves iCycle.