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DuoBook: Generate bilingual stories to learn any language

95 pointsby celltalk18 days ago

23 comments

kriro15 days ago
I&#x27;d suggest an extra tier where you can generate a very tiny story without signup to try it first.<p>As is, I jumped out of the funnel already.
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celltalk18 days ago
My best friend and I had been trying to learn Dutch for a while. About a month ago, we picked up some Donald Duck books in Dutch, thinking they&#x27;d be fun and simple to start with. But soon enough, we found ourselves constantly switching between the book and our phones, struggling to follow the story—definitely not the immersive experience we had hoped for...<p>That’s when I remembered those books with one language on one page and the translation on the opposite page. Inspired by that concept, I thought, why not use AI to create something similar, but even more interactive?<p>So, we built DuoBook.<p>Here&#x27;s how it works:<p>1) Start writing your story in your language.<p>2) Select the language you want to learn.<p>3) AI helps complete the story, side-by-side with your native language.<p>It’s still early days, and it might not be perfect, but it&#x27;s genuinely helping us—and we hope it helps you too!<p>Check it out: duobook.co
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jasonpeacock15 days ago
Related is Prismatext, which intermixes the new language into the text of a book in your native language, so you get in-place, contextual learning of the new language:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;prismatext.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;prismatext.com&#x2F;</a>
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DHolzer15 days ago
consider telling us upfront about the login requirement and&#x2F;or have the three demo stories prepared in all combinations, saves you money too.
99990000099915 days ago
This is neat.<p>But, please focus on 3 or 4 languages. Do those well.<p>Asian languages ( apparently Cantonese isn’t on the list ) are very hard to machine translate.<p>As is this is just Chat GPT + AWS Translate + AWS Text To Speech. Along with Firebase for user management and a very nice UX front end.<p>To turn this into a product I’d select maybe 3 languages, French , Spanish, German and hire advisors for all 3. Work on creating a few stories edited by your advisors and add basic gamification&#x2F;quizzes.<p>I like the idea though
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hliyan15 days ago
Tried this with my native language. Many errors. Probably because the language is only spoken by 20 million people (Sinhala). Suggestion: ability to highlight one word and have its translation highlighted. Could catch errors like the one I encountered: &quot;A robot lives alone on Mars&quot; got translated to &quot;A robot was born alone on Mars&quot;
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endofreach14 days ago
Whenever i am in a new country, i hit the first bookstore in the city centre. Child section often has disney books or similar. Sometimes even bilingual versions. I recommend it.<p>No idea how to order my food, but if i ever need to find my son, who&#x27;s a clownfish, and was kidnapped, and i need to do it in italian, i am ready.
wahnfrieden15 days ago
For Japanese specifically I made an iOS&#x2F;macOS native app for learning by reading. It curates a library of RSS feeds and some books rather than generating them with AI because there are still issues with the naturalness of LLM-made Japanese writing. I&#x27;ve found many learners are still apprehensive of using generated content.<p>To calibrate the content to your reading level, rather than generating the content, it tracks your comprehension and shows you how much of a given webpage or book you already understand.<p>It has optional Anki integration if you don&#x27;t want to use the built-in ones. I work on this full-time now and am about to launch a manga reading mode, plus Netflix caption lookups.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;reader.manabi.io" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;reader.manabi.io</a>
dustincoates15 days ago
Great stuff, congrats!<p>A couple of suggestions: - I&#x27;m learning Hebrew and I&#x27;m at the beginner stage, so it would be good to have niqqud. Even with the STT, it&#x27;s helpful at this stage. - For the STT, every time I tried it, it just said something that sounded like &quot;Dodd.&quot;
gxonatano9 days ago
Almost every time I see claims to the effect of &quot;learn any language&quot; or &quot;learn all languages,&quot; on HN or otherwise, it&#x27;s about a smallish subset of languages. No matter how many languages you think you support, you don&#x27;t support them all, so why make such a wild claim?
hs58615 days ago
I wanted to work on a similar idea recently for my personal use, but I wanted to use books and stories that already have the texts in the two languages that I am interested in (e.g. Harry Potter).<p>So you pass in two texts and get back some form of aligned text. If you have some knowledge of the language you are trying to learn and are ok without a perfect sentence-to-sentence alignment, then this would work.<p>My motivation is to improve my wife&#x27;s and my knowledge of each other&#x27;s languages while reading books to our daughter.<p>For a moment I got excited that someone else had already built it :)
outside123415 days ago
Good approach. I basically do the same thing with Apple Books. I read in Spanish and then when I don&#x27;t know a word I highlight the whole sentence and click Translate.
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dinkblam15 days ago
very nice but:<p>1.) a &quot;long&quot; story is still only like 20 sentences 2.) a real translation for each sentence is nice but often you are still left wondering what each word means. a &quot;word by word&quot; literal translation would be more useful either as an option or additionally. or the ability to click on any word and see the translation (bonus points for the declinations &#x2F; conjugations too)
PebblesRox13 days ago
I like it! I came back today after making a story yesterday and it had not saved my language.<p>Also, I’m using it in the phone and don’t see a way to get the translation of just one word since I can’t hover.
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hejsansvejsan15 days ago
Interesting bug: when pressing the text-to-speech button to hear my Swedish story read out loud, what I get is a pretty good rendition of the text read as if it were French.
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ErigmolCt15 days ago
Kinda curious how good the AI translations are. If it&#x27;s just straight-up machine translation, that might get rough fast depending on the language pair
ordzo15 days ago
I tried it on Icelandic and the grammar was horrible.
flipchart15 days ago
Please split Portuguese into European and Brazilian
j4515 days ago
This is a great design to line up the similarities and context from sentence to sentence.
sagon_ren15 days ago
I tried it on a not so popular African language, pretty good result.
drillsteps514 days ago
Lifelong foreign language learner here.<p>What would really help is a way to find stories at a pre-defined learner level in a particular language.<p>Ie you say you&#x27;re studying Japanese, your learner level is such and such, give me an example of an article at that level (from a blog, news article, anywhere).<p>Regardless of good LLMs are rn it&#x27;s still a slop if not verified by human speaker. Ability to find texts in open access written by human beings would be so much more helpful.<p>Of course a lot of them are not REALLY written by humans anymore but one problem at a time :)
jamesdutc14 days ago
Congratulations to the creators for successfully releasing this product!<p>(I&#x27;m trying to start with a positive tone, since I have only negative things to say about the site itself. I want to make sure that I&#x27;m coming across a <i>critical</i> without coming across as <i>mean</i>.)<p>I spent a few minutes generating a couple of sample stories using their prompts for the pair that I&#x27;m most qualified to evaluate “English”→“Chinese (Traditional)” and just wasn&#x27;t very impressed. Honestly, I think the approach is largely a dead-end.<p>Let&#x27;s set aside that “Chinese (Traditional)” is not a language, and that someone with experience learning or teaching Chinese ought to know this (and, as I will argue, knowing this is critical to producing high-quality educational materials!) That the creators of this tool aren&#x27;t particularly familiar with the languages themselves is probably much less consequential than that they don&#x27;t really appear to be familiar with the pedagogy of teaching or learning languages.<p>One would anticipate that the languages that most learners want to learn are subject to broad market forces, and that, as a consequence, these languages already have a variety of high-quality, human-written primary texts and educational texts (many of which may even be free-to-access!) For the language pair I tested, this is definitely true, and I would encourage every learner to start with those materials (and to avoid anything AI-generated.)<p>(Of course, if I wanted to learn a less-common language where materials are hard to find this might be marginally useful—e.g., Telugu probably has more total speakers than Italian, but my local high school probably has an Italian class—but I would wonder whether the training set would be good enough to accurately reproduce the language. I suppose if I wanted to learn an endangered language, where they may simply not be enough native speakers to maintain a rich catalogue of written language, then someone could train an AI to reproduce this language to aid in learning, but a similar question arises as to whether this kind of preservation or reconstruction is sufficiently “faithful.”)<p>It&#x27;s absolutely the case that AI tools are at a point where (for common languages) they are able to reliably generate grammatically accurate language, independent of its factual accuracy. Indeed, while I could spot fluency issues in the sample stories I reviewed (since, of course, “Chinese (Traditional)” is not a language,) I could not spot outright grammatical errors. (This is an impressive accomplishment for AI models!)<p>But this is really a solution looking for a problem (and, in my opinion, finding the most obvious but also least useful.)<p>Contrast these randomly generated story with the equivalent from a human-generated educational resource. In the case of a human-generated educational resource, the quality of language may actually be <i>worse</i> than than that in the AI generated resource (even in the face of sloppy AI writing tends to be!) In fact, in the case of Chinese (“Traditional” or otherwise,) this is absolutely guaranteed to be the case for an introductory text. Almost all introductory texts will be written in a very choppy, repetitive style: e.g., 「那隻狗很可愛。我養的狗也很可愛。」<p>(It&#x27;s likely the case that even intermediate and advanced learning materials will not resemble actual primary texts. e.g., I was reading the news the other day and came across the sentence 「北捷重申,無論任何年齡,各車站閘門前的黃色標線內一律禁止喝水等飲食行為,除非是身體不適或母乳哺育」 which is perfectly appropriate for an intermediate learner… except 「閘門」 is simply not useful or appropriate textbook vocabulary!)<p>So why is the human-generated educational material better? Well, there&#x27;s a lot of design to writing these kinds of materials. How do we teach and reïterate the most broadly useful grammatical structures and vocabulary? How do we teach this in a way that maximises retention? (And, often, how do we expose the learner to useful cultural background that will help them when they visit a region where the language is spoken?)<p>All of this is visible in human-generated materials, yet none of this is evident in these AI-generated materials. It is, in fact, this design that makes these materials useful in the first place. In the absence of it, we end up with vocabulary lists that define 「狗:dog」 next to 「呈現:to emerge」 where a human educator would align the difficulty of these terms to the order and process in which a human learner would learn them. Similarly, a human educator knows how to evolve a student&#x27;s fluency with language and understanding of tone and register, taking them from 「媽媽: mother」 to 「母親: mother」 perhaps even strategically including 「媽咪: mommy」 or even 「阿母 a-bú: mother (台)」 to engage the student. (Real educators do this very often, and students tend to really like it when they get “fun fact”-style local flavour!) I have not seen anyone attempt to introduce any of this design into AI-generated learning materials, and I suspect this is why they always come across as being so bland and mushy. Instead, the AI-generated materials are creating only rote practice items (which is why their prompts typically include things like “limit the generated text to use only vocabulary as published in the prep materials for such-and-such language proficiency exam.”) This kind of practice is, indeed, useful, but it&#x27;s debatable whether it&#x27;s measurably more useful than just spaced-repetition with flashcards.<p>Now, contrast these materials with primary texts (i.e., written language artefacts produced for an audience of native speakers.) Primary texts are often very difficult to incorporate into language learning, especially for languages like Chinese. This is probably because at the introductory level, the materials simply aren&#x27;t dense enough for an adult learner, and at the advanced level, probably because these materials are far too challenging given the amount of specialised terminology and vocabulary used. (There are, in fact, very appropriate materials that sit between these extremes, such as news magazines or short stories written for middle schoolers, but these materials can be hard to access.)<p>The benefit of the primary text is that it is very close to the actual goal of the learner: I really don&#x27;t want to read a story about a lost dog, and I only do it, because with enough practice reading such drivel, I might eventually read ‘Dream of the Red Mansion’ or ‘Red Sorghum.’ As a consequence, what most learners will reach for are “graded readers” which are adaptations of well-known works with simplified language and grammar. I&#x27;m on the fence with how well AI can create these for us. On the one hand, there is a pedagogical and creative dimension to producing a good graded reader. The former may be possible to approximate with additional prompting (“use only vocabulary from this list; use only grammatical structures familiar to a learner at this tested level,”) but I&#x27;m not sure about the latter. The reader is probably losing a lot when we simplify Gandalf to ‘Run away now!’<p>So while I&#x27;m quite hopeful that AI technologies can improve language learning, this kind of tool just doesn&#x27;t seem to add anything to what already exists and is already much better.<p>The approach is just <i>too obvious</i>. I think it&#x27;s too focused on finding a way to adapt something we know that AI can do well (generate grammatically correct text) to something we want to be able to do more cheaply or effectively (teach language learners how to read) without really considering how to solve this problem.
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dgimla2013 days ago
Yet another frontend for ChatGPT. You can do all of this on ChatGPT.