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Square introduces monthly pricing

258 pointsby MIT_Hackeralmost 13 years ago

28 comments

abalonealmost 13 years ago
Kudos for the "ballsy" simplicity. I don't know if people appreciate how big of a risk this is for Square.<p>Square is placing a big bet on the numbers working out in the long run. If their analysis is just a little bit wrong, they're going to burn through millions of dollars in losses.<p>Why? Because the 1.3% "sweet spot" is almost certainly well below their cost. "Interchange" is the wholesale rate that processors like Square pay to card networks. Visa &#38; Mastercard publish their rates and as far as anyone knows they're not negotiable. According to FeeFighters which did a lot of public research around rates, the average interchange rate for a typical card mix is:<p>1.58% + $0.13 per transaction<p>Unless they've figured out a way around standard interchange, this is Square's approximate cost.<p>Remix that into a 2.75% flat rate and you'll find that Square already charges less than that cost for purchases below ~$6 (even considering that there's a special, lower small ticket interchange rate). And now for businesses that hit the sweet spot around $17-21K/month, Square's probably also taking a loss.<p>No doubt Square is betting on a mix of merchants that fall in the profitable peaks between those troughs. All in the name of simplicity.<p>Sources: <a href="http://feefighters.com/square-calculator" rel="nofollow">http://feefighters.com/square-calculator</a> <a href="http://usa.visa.com/merchants/operations/interchange_rates.html" rel="nofollow">http://usa.visa.com/merchants/operations/interchange_rates.h...</a>
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stevencoronaalmost 13 years ago
There are limits (it's still _revolutionary_ for an industry that loves to nickle &#38; dime, though)<p>Up to $400 per any single transaction and up to $250,000 in total transactions per year—or approximately $21,000 per month. Swiped transactions over these limits simply cost 2.75% per swipe.<p>$21,000 * .0275 = $577.5 in fees.<p>I would love to see more Square adoption. In Charleston, lots of cart vendors (hot dogs, popsicles) use Square, as well as many vendors at the farmers market.
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lordlarmalmost 13 years ago
The next step for Square, in my opinion, is developing a reader for the EMV cards (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMV" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMV</a>), which is hugely dominant in Europe - and also more secure. See a this useful Quora post, from 12 months ago: <a href="http://www.quora.com/How-does-Square-intend-to-translate-their-business-to-UK-Europe-where-the-Chip-and-Pin-process-is-the-standard" rel="nofollow">http://www.quora.com/How-does-Square-intend-to-translate-the...</a><p>Going international, or making such a reader, opens up an enormous market and the potential is huge.<p>I'm waiting, excited, as I see Square disrupting this business. As tibbon asked earlier in the comments: "why has no one disrupted this market before". I'll think it is a good question, I have no answer, but find it is about time. Ref. <a href="http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4392763" rel="nofollow">http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4392763</a><p>Also, an interesting firm from Sweden, which is worth following now is iZettle (<a href="https://www.izettle.com/" rel="nofollow">https://www.izettle.com/</a>) which has developed an EMV reader. Noticably their, "how much do I pay to use iZettle" page is intresting. <a href="http://help.izettle.com/customer/en_us/portal/articles/530952-how-much-do-i-pay-to-use-izettle-#" rel="nofollow">http://help.izettle.com/customer/en_us/portal/articles/53095...</a>
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tibbonalmost 13 years ago
So two things that I've never understood.<p>1) Why is it just now that someone's actually providing competitive service in this space? We've had people selling CC machines and service for years...<p>2) Where (in general, not just with Square) does the money actually go? It seems that prior to Square announcing this, getting under 2-3% or so was nearly impossible. On the scale of the US economy alone, that's HUGE money. What are the fixed per-transactions costs? Its just pushing around bits in a system right?
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tehwebguyalmost 13 years ago
Pretty cool, but it's definitely a gamble for a small business that doesn't have proven revenue yet:<p>- At $10k / month $275 is 2.75%<p>- At $5k / month $275 is 5.5%<p>- At $2500 / month $275 is 11%<p>It doesn't say if there's a commitment or if there's a way to switch back and forth depending on volume.
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personaalmost 13 years ago
Maximum savings for a business is capped at $3,575/yr and if they sell less than $120k/yr, businesses will actually be losing money.<p>It sounds more like a safe customer acquisition strategy for Square (with acquisition cost maxed at that value) then a huge savings for small businesses (min swipe cost would be at 1.32% compared to 2.75%).
biotalmost 13 years ago
Through the use of elementary arithmetic, Square is charging every company the average expected transaction fees for the month, regardless of whether the actual transaction fees would be higher or lower than this. So half the companies save money while the other half lose money.<p>This is being spun as an innovation when, in reality, it's likely to net Square more revenue as there are probably more merchants between $0 - $10K than there are $10K - $21K.
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rodlyalmost 13 years ago
Is it illegal to chop up payments that exceed $400? If not, I'd say this is a nice way to save a bit of money if you do more than $10,000 in business every month. Not sure if it's worth the hassle to implement though.
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jsherryalmost 13 years ago
If a merchant does at least $13,000 per month in credit card revenue, this is a good deal (read on for assumptions).<p>Quick and dirty math here: Stripe charges $275 per month for card revenues up to $21,000 per month. I took a look at <a href="http://truecostofcredit.com" rel="nofollow">http://truecostofcredit.com</a> (courtesy of FeeFighters) and the merchant fees per transaction vary widely based on the type of merchant as well as card type. For the sake of argument, let's say the average Visa/MC transactions costs the merchant 1.75%. And let's say that the average AmEx transaction costs the merchant 3.5%. Now let's assume it's an 80%/20% distribution between MC/Visa and AmEx transactions, respectively, bringing a blended rate of 2.1%. Assuming that the merchant is charged 2.1% per transaction by their credit card company, the tipping point is $13,095 of revenue per month. Anything above and beyond that and this is a good deal. Below it, it's not (aside from the fact that's a fixed cost versus a variable one which is worth something).
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philip1209almost 13 years ago
I see a potential for abuse - if the cash back on certain credit cards exceeds the max rate, people could cycle money through for profit.<p>e.g. I had a 2% cash back credit card<p>Cashback: 21k/mo * 2%=$420<p>Fees: $275<p>Upside potential: $145/mo<p>Not much profit possible, but with multiple accounts at roughly 2 $400 swipes per day per account, I would watch out for something like this.
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Iaksalmost 13 years ago
In case anyone from square is reading this - you're page loads absolutely 0 content with JS disabled. Just some feedback, take it or leave it.
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lwhialmost 13 years ago
So if your (small) business takes $60,000 in a year, you will pay square $3300; effectively a rate of 5.5%.<p>If your business takes $160,000 in a year, you end up paying square a rate of around 2.06%.<p>Is this really that revolutionary? (.. am I oversimplifying the situation?)
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Cyranixalmost 13 years ago
Coming back from Portland and pleasantly surprised at the number of cabs using Square. Not an expert in the world of taxi companies, but at first glance the monthly pricing seems like a potential match for them.
allforJessealmost 13 years ago
And now, let's watch as Square gets implemented at bars everywhere.
GauntletWizardalmost 13 years ago
Let's do the math, here: "for small businesses processing up to $250,000 per year". So, the most you're processing is a quarter million/year, and you're paying 275/month = 3300 per year. $3300/$250000 means you're paying an effective processing fee of 1.32%. That's a big savings over their usual 2.75%, but it's still probably more than the big players are paying. And that's assuming that you use it for optimal efficiency. The breakeven point is ($3300 / .0275) = $120,000, which is reasonable, all things considered - I know a couple of small shops that do ~$200,000/year of business. I know a friend stated that his breakeven point for his small shop was $400 in sales a day, and that he was living well on ~$600. It would probably be advantageous for him to move entirely to Square, based on those numbers.
hboonalmost 13 years ago
OT, but any one knows why square.com redirects to squareup.com instead of the other way round?
Simucalalmost 13 years ago
Square is really opening the door for credit processing in a lot of places that it wasn't practical before. I just went to a "Food Truck Friday" event at a local park and every single food truck was accepting credit cards via Square.
MIT_Hackeralmost 13 years ago
Press Release: <a href="https://squareup.com/news/releases/2012/square-introduces-one-monthly-price-for-small-businesses" rel="nofollow">https://squareup.com/news/releases/2012/square-introduces-on...</a>
username3almost 13 years ago
Square should automatically wave fees after collecting $275 per month.
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conductralmost 13 years ago
This benefits only those processing $15.5K - $30.0K per month. Otherwise, Intuit's Gopayment at $12.95+1.7% is best.<p><a href="https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0An_-Z6kZBAXndFF5TE1zSEpUNjRpUHhCLXJEVnUxeHc" rel="nofollow">https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0An_-Z6kZBAXndFF...</a><p>Addition: Gopayment is also better than Square's standard 2.75% for anyone processing more than ~$1,200 per month
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jdelsmanalmost 13 years ago
I honestly wish they had some kind of affiliate program. I'd make so much money pimping Square out to local businesses, especially the ones I truly care about. I am so sick of being told: "Sorry, we don't accept AMEX" or simply "Sorry, we don't accept credit cards." Are you kidding? It is 2012!
tejasmi5almost 13 years ago
A business doing $250k in annual business most likely has their own point of sale system. The 1.3% cost would be more attractive if there was an API that businesses could then just integrate into the existing POS system.
grandalfalmost 13 years ago
This is very cool but not a free lunch. The fees have to come from somewhere. How about no fees for chargebacks too?
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ChiperSoftalmost 13 years ago
I'd love to see a payment gateway offer this, like Stripe. It'd be HUGE for micro-payments.
trustfundbabyalmost 13 years ago
If Stripe follows suit, I might just wet myself.
BallinBigealmost 13 years ago
this is going to cost small - mid cap merchants more money!
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bluekite2000almost 13 years ago
Now I m waiting for Stripe to do the same thing
BryanB55almost 13 years ago
That sounds pretty awesome at first but I guess it would require some math to figure out if you really are saving much compared to normal CC processing.
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