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Ask HN: Is a completed course on codeacademy enough to get a programming job?

7 pointsby kevbamover 12 years ago
Hi, I am currently doing the Javascript course on codeacademy. I am about 40% of the way through the course and I am moving fast. I really enjoy the challenges and feel I am learning a lot. I have also signed up to the codeschool objective C course.<p>However, I was wondering if having completed the Javascript course really means anything to a potential employer? Would a potential employer hire me on the back of completing a codeacademy course? Of course it would help with other tech jobs and with my own projects, but would it get me a job as a programmer?Any feedback you could give me on this would be greatly appreciated.

6 comments

ColinWrightover 12 years ago
I've been helping someone recently who says he's completed the Python course on codecademy. I have no reason to doubt him, but he is confused on important issues, and cannot write code.<p>The evidence I have is meagre, but suggests that a codecademy course is not necessarily worth anything.<p>Of course, it may be that you have aptitude, and the Codecademy course is exactly what you needed to get you started, and that you can (or soon will be able to) program, but I wouldn't hire you based on completing a Codecademy course. I probably wouldn't even telephone interview you on that basis.<p>I'd want to see something you've written, then I'd want to write something with you. Then I'd want to see you think about an appropriate problem.
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gexlaover 12 years ago
An American friend of mine living in the Philippines with nothing much to do landed a gig for $100 to build a landing page using a WYSIWYG HTML editor. He had only ever built a few sites using this editor and knew next to nothing otherwise. I think he was even able to complete it within a few hours. So, yes, as long as you are willing to spend time to do something for somebody else who doesn't have that time, then you can get paid.<p>If you are looking for an actual full time job, then this is highly unlikely.<p>Web development shops don't do training. They are looking for people who can hit the ground running with little or no help. Making a web development shop work is difficult, and someone with little experience will only cost the shop money, which creates a burden for the business. They also need people who are well rounded, so that one person can do most of what they require, what's left over can be outsourced.<p>Startups are much the same as web development shops. They don't have the resources to train people and they need for their developers to be well rounded.<p>As a JS developer you would be a specialist, and specialists can really only get freelance work from development teams who don't have enough free resources in that area to finish that part of a project but don't have enough work in that area to justify hiring someone full time.<p>Large established businesses which have a lot of resources (or startups which are very well funded) are in a better position to train people. They may also be more open to doing so if they have to quickly ramp up their development staff. But you probably won't get into a Facebook or a Google without excellent credentials (graduating from a big name school if you don't already have experience) and getting through a daunting interview process.<p>There are exceptions out there. See hungryacademy.com (for LivingSocial) as an example, but this is not the norm.<p>The easiest way to land work right away is to go the freelance route. Unfortunately, this can also be the most difficult route to make a living as you would be running a business and managing cashflow as opposed to receiving a regular paycheck. With an employer, you can get paid through your learning curve, but with freelancing your learning curve may result in being late on rent (and figuring out how to make freelancing really work can take years for some people.) This is also a bit of a backwards route because ideally you would first become an expert by learning from a successful web development shop before striking out on your own.<p>However, at the end of the day, we are all hustling. We need to somehow get from point A to point B and by sheer willpower we will figure it out (or get replaced by someone who will.) You need to also be hustling and eventually you also will find a way.<p>My suggestion.<p>The next logical step from JS is to make sure that you are functional in HTML/CSS, as that gives you a solid foundation for front-end web development work. At this point, you would still be a specialist, so you would need to go further. The HTML/CSS is often done by designers or can easily be outsourced because there are a lot of solid people in this area. So this alone won't land you a job unless you are a solid designer. Again, the details vary depending on the employer.<p>Because you have mentioned objective-c, I'm assuming that you are not a designer and would need to go the coder route. So, you will need to augment your front-end skills with some back-end skills. As a coder, you don't need to be a wizard with HTML/CSS because of the already mentioned reasons. Just be good enough that you can put together those elements if you need to. You now need to select a general direction for the back-end. PHP, Ruby or Python are the most likely choices here.<p>You need to consider potential markets before making a decision on your first back-end platform. The market for PHP developers is huge, but there is also a ton of competion. The market for Clojure developers is relatively small, but you also have less competition. Additionally, you could further drill down into specializing on specific content management systems, such as Wordpress, or frameworks, such as Rails. Take a look through available jobs (as well as the budgets and the competition for these jobs) at Elance and Odesk to get a feel for this.<p>Once you have started to learn your chosen platform, you need practice every day until you find that you are able to take care of the basics without having to look through documentation at every step of the way. At this point you are functional and you need to start publishing some code to Github as potential clients or employers will ask to see samples of what you have done.<p>Your next task is to come up with a project where you take care of everything from A to Z. If you have followed the above advice, then this is probably a web application. Make sure that you finish the application and get it shipped. Do some light promotion to get a little traffic. This will give you an idea of what the entire process of creating a web application requires and will help fill in some of the gaps that the above advice didn't cover.<p>Congrats, you are now functional enough that you can start considering your options for building an income. You now need to start networking (actually, start this process as early as you can.) Find the communities for your chosen platforms / markets and start participating. In particular, look for places where paying clients are part of the community.<p>Notice that I haven't touched on Objective-C. You could probably take the same route with Objective-C but I don't have the same experience to make suggestions in that area. Javascript is a scripting language for web applications, so I would suggest that since you put in that time that you continue following the web side of development. Go through my suggestions and then make the decision of continuing with web development or making the move to native mobile apps. Personally, I wouldn't want to get started with mobile apps without having web development experience under my belt.
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bulltaleover 12 years ago
You can compare finishing the course on codeacademy with finishing any school or course; the one hiring you will ask two questions: 1) What is the quality of this course? 2) How can I judge the applicant's performance against the quality of the course?<p>For 1) you have an issue: Codeacademy is so new, that the quality of the course cannot be determined by the quality of previous "alumni". The one hiring you has to make an educated guess. He can look at the courses and estimate the quality himself.<p>This makes 2) hard too, since he will not know if finishing this course in say, two weeks, is excellent or subpar.<p>It will probably convince the one hiring you that you have a basic command of javascript, but you really need to develop something that shows how this command is rated outside the course.<p><pre><code> - Submit patches to open source js projects and get them accepted - Answer questions on http://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/javascript - Build a js library </code></pre> This will help validate your codeacedemy skills.
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robinwarrenover 12 years ago
As a manager who hires developers I'd say no. Mainly because any single thing isn't going to be enough to get you a job, or possibly even an interview.<p>My suggestions:<p>1. Put up as much of your course work as possible on GitHub. This gives an employer the chance to look at your code, and shows you can use Git.<p>2. Take on a project to build something. Possibly your course work covers this, I don't know. I'd suggest some simple app/website/gizmo which actually does something. It doesn't have to be unique but should show you can build a larger project without creating a confusing mess.<p>3. Rinse and repeat. The above would be enough to land you a junior developer job assuming you're actually good enough at the coding. You can always learn more and more, ie security, scalability, design etc. I'd look into any of those if they interest you. Otherwise wait until you need them.<p>I run a developer jobsite btw, the link is in my profile.
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j2baxover 12 years ago
This is from a small 18 man shop... Generally we hire based on potential as judged by our lead developers. Most of our best talent has been nurtured right in house. We find that this is generally less expensive and it fosters much better loyalty. We have developers going on 7+ years with us. Some of our worst experiences have come from hiring seasoned rock stars that feel entirely too entitled. This isn't to say there aren't many seasoned pros that are still humble enough to work with, we just havent had a ton of luck with them.<p>That said, it would depend on our current work load and how much promise we saw in you based on what you've done so far. your pay would most definitely start low (probably around $16.00/hr) but based on progress we'd advance you pretty quickly.<p>To answer the question... I doubt I would hire you solely based on your codecademy course work. I'd be looking for a website that you've applied your learnings to.
yieldsover 12 years ago
I wouldn't hire someone that complete a course on codeacademy, and doesn't have anything to show me, if he has open source projects and i like what i see, i would hire him.
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