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SF's Rising Rental Prices beat NYC: $3500/month for single family homes

58 pointsby jackhammer2022over 12 years ago

15 comments

mc32over 12 years ago
San Francisco has limited land, so there is a natural constraint on growth; in addition, there is a form of rent control and then there are lots of stipulations for building new units in the city. these things contribute to the low inventory, I think.<p>I wish they would allow more common sense building in the city. For example, in some areas, the shadows from new buildings may not be allowed to cast on neighborhood parks from 10am to 4pm, or so. This has killed a few projects. Then you have powerful neighborhood groups (like the ones along the embarcadero) who won't allow dense building because they would limit their view. I understand their position, but it's a selfish one. No one "owns" a view. More over, their buildings obstruct buildings behind them, but they would insist on having their own buildings be demolished to give others a view --nevermind that this could go on till very few houses were left.<p>The building requirements, in my layman's view, is that the requirements are onerous (compared to say San Jose) and make housing in SF an artificially limited/scarce resource which puts pressure on housing. The Peninsula is not much better. Neighbors always bring up traffic but then never approve BART to alleviate some of that traffic concern (or some other form of local mass transit (let's say spurs from the main Caltrain stations meandering to the local downtowns which host offices). My frustration is such that I wish someone like ABAG were given the power to overrule locals and allow them to do proper (integrated regional) planning and allow building up (vertically) to take the pressure off of housing in the Bay Area.
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jbogganover 12 years ago
I think the increase in rental prices is going to continue for quite awhile. My recent experience moving to SF and trying to find a place was incredible. I was just looking for sublets, but most people that I got to personally meet told me their email rate for a CL ad was 150-300 emails a day. I quickly learned that unless I was discovering the ad within 2 hours of posting there was no point to even replying.<p>I was only able to get an apartment after (1) enlisting my mother on the East Coast to spend all her spare time on CL forwarding me appropriate listings, (2) calling an ad's phone number 22 minutes after it was posted, (3) making sure I was the very first person that was personally screened, and (4) forcing a check for two months' rent into their hand unsolicited with the message that if they found anyone better I'd just stop payment. It's a rough market and it is still getting crazier. I think someone on a previous HN comment thread mentioned the city gained only 270 new housing units last year.
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BadassFractalover 12 years ago
This chart from Lovely was making the rounds of /r/sanfrancisco the other day, sounds relevant to this post: <a href="http://cdn1.uptownalmanac.com/cdn/farfuture/N3k8kY5x460_wHNRZtkp6o_AmKVLJEfZ8idNV6rTQCU/mtime:1337022082/sites/default/files/images-on-cdn/5-14-12uuugggghhhh.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://cdn1.uptownalmanac.com/cdn/farfuture/N3k8kY5x460_wHNR...</a>
briandearover 12 years ago
San Francisco is a nice enough place, but I fail to see the attraction: high taxes, fees for everything you do, a fascist city council, homeless people pretty much do whatever they want and people that love to berate you for not driving a Prius. The geography of San Fran is nice but it's like living in an Al Gore version of Animal Farm. Aside from the weather, Texas is a far more logical place to be. In Austin, $3500 per month would buy a palace compared to San Fran.
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roycyangover 12 years ago
I dont think this article is comparing apples to apples. There are no single family homes to be had in most of manhattan and parts of Brooklyn. I'm living in pacific heights now and also live in lower manhattan. Manhattan is still a bit more expensive IMHO.
briandearover 12 years ago
"Rent control protects tennants from higher prices.."<p>That's bullshit. What rent control does is distorts the market so you have people hanging onto apartments when they may not need them. As a result, it creates shortages. When some dude in Soho NYC is paying $600 for a nice two bedroom, and his next door neighbor is paying $4500, then there's a big problem with that system.
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grimlckover 12 years ago
Isn't this just a symptom of san francisco proper being much smaller than new york city?<p>A more fair comparision is comparing San Francisco to Manhattan.
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cletusover 12 years ago
San Francisco is now for all intents and purposes a boom town.<p>At one end of the spectrum it is awash with tech money from the likes of Google, Facebook and Twitter. On the other you have pretty much everyone else.<p>I'm familiar with this coming from Perth, Western Australia. Australia is undergoing an unprecedented resources boom thanks to China's insatiable appetite for metals and petroleum products. This has affected different parts of the country differently. Perth, Brisbane and some region centers have ridden this wave for more than a decade.<p>On one side you have those who have owned property for this entire time who are sitting on huge windfalls (eg a house you could buy for $85,000 in 2001 cost $350,000 by 2005). Now you won't find a house cheaper than $250,000 in the Perth metropolitan area which stretches for 100 miles of coast and 50 miles inland (at peak; it's in between a triangle and a semicircle).<p>To view this is a positive is ultimately shortsighted. You see, it's incredibly difficult for new people entering the market. And I'm not just talking about purchasing. It flows on to renting. Those rents are inputs into all other costs and this all adds up to an inflation bomb just waiting to explode.<p>The "haves" in Australia are those associated with mining and construction (since mining demands a lot of infrastructure). The "have nots" are everyone else. The have nots are, at best, asset rich and cash poor.<p>At some point the economy simply ceases to function. Office space is incredibly expensive in Perth such that, for example, there are fewer and fewer software engineering jobs as companies relocate or centralize to Sydney and Melbourne (exacerbating a natural trend), which incidentally is one of the reasons I moved a couple of years ago.<p>Honestly I think it's cheaper for me to live in Manhattan than anywhere central in Perth now. <i>Manhattan</i>. Rents are more expensive here but not by much. Everything else is cheaper. I can walk into a large number of eateries and have appetizers for &#60;$5 and entres for &#60;$10, just as one data point. Utilities in Perth are super-expensive. I know people with $1500 electricity bills... for <i>two months</i>.<p>Now Perth isn't land-contrained like San Francisco (or Manhattan) for that matter but the socialist bent in SF is ultimately a problem.<p>Rent control is a huge problem in SF. This has been covered here previously. Some estimates run at 1 in 8 rentable units being left permanently vacant, arguably due to rent control.<p>The city's building restrictions mean new units simply aren't entering the market.<p>NYC has several things going for it here:<p>1. It did away with rent control in 1973. It provided a smooth landing with rent stabilization, which is now rapidly disappearing from Manhattan;<p>2. Manhattan has excellent transport links, probably the best in the country. The fact is if you work in Manhattan, you can live in the five boroughs, New Jersey, upstate New York, Long Island or even further afield without having to drive into the city.<p>Compare this to the woeful transport situation (in comparison) in the Bay area. Caltrain is barely serviceable and at best runs once or twice an hour.<p>3. New York allows new construction, at least in some areas. Financial district, Battery Park, Midtown West, etc;<p>4. The surrounding areas of NYC are more densely populated. Compare this to, say, Menlo Park, which reserves almost all land for single-family residences on large blocks and like much of the rest of the Valley, virtually prohibits high-rise construction.<p>This low density is ultimately shortsighted as it comes at the expensive of amenities and will at some point impact the ability for employers to stay in the area as the rising property prices make commercial activity increasingly untenable.<p>5. The geography doesn't help SF. Whereas New York, London and other densely populated urban centers can expand in multiple directions, SF is more constricted.<p>Facebook really wanted to stay in Palo Alto. Zoning restrictions made it difficult. They had split offices and eventually had to move. Twitter for some reason is sticking to SoMA but as the seedier areas gentrify and go up in cost, this is going to become increasingly difficult. At some point it's simply going to make more sense to relocate out of these kinds of areas.<p>What happens to SF when large numbers of jobs move out of the city?<p>The whole rent control and construction limits is going to have to end. The longer it goes on, the worse the correction will be (IMHO).
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steve8918over 12 years ago
We got lucky. 1.5 years ago, we rented a house in SF for $2700, and the rent was frozen at $2700 for up to 3 years. A friend of ours moved into our neighborhood and is paying $3300/month for a comparable place.<p>I'm not sure what we're going to do once the lease is up in 1.5 years, hopefully the rent prices will stabilize. I know my friend in SOMA who bought his 2 br condo for $580k can now sell it for probably $800k, and charge at least $4k/month for it. It's absolutely crazy how much rents have gone up, it's as bad as during the dotcom boom, where my rent went up $500/month after the 1st year lease. (I moved out to a worse neighborhood instead of renewing the lease).
ajaysover 12 years ago
Let's not forget: AirBnB isn't helping either. No, not the AirBnB employees; but the loads of people renting out their spare rooms, when earlier they would have taken in a roommate. I just checked, and 2300 listings came up for San Francisco.<p>Plus, SF Tenants Union is very powerful. Once you are a renter, you can basically do anything and the landlord can't kick you out. Consider this example from today's paper: <a href="http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Landlord-nightmare-in-eviction-attempt-3849250.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Landlord-nightmare-in-...</a> . As a result, some people are leery of renting.<p>In other words: while the demand has gone up, the supply seems to have come down.
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vinayan3over 12 years ago
:( I've been living with roommates for a few years in SF. I want to move to a 1BR place I guess it won't happen till the bust happens.
andrewfelixover 12 years ago
This is nothing compared to Sydney. We were paying $4k AUD for a run down 3 bed apartment in Newtown. This has been the norm for quite some time, and is probably down to the fact that Sydney has 1% vacancy.<p>I've since moved to a town called Newcastle and pay $1700.
ronaldjover 12 years ago
My friend and I always talk about how, given our salaries, we could have both bought houses by now if we weren't living in the Bay Area. A tempting idea is just to save as much as possible for a few years and then move someplace cheaper.
mixonicover 12 years ago
Finally, something New Yorkers are happy to be #2 at.
jcfreiover 12 years ago
how are the prices in the rest of the bay? equally high?
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