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Warrantless wiretaps? Congress votes yes

180 pointsby zoowarover 12 years ago

12 comments

tptacekover 12 years ago
You'd want to know but could not easily learn from this article that the wiretaps in question here pertain to foreign intelligence surveillance (ie, the government's authorization to spy on foreign entities).<p>You'd probably also want to know that the hotbutton issue actually at play in this authorization is programmatic surveillance, which is what it sounds like: automated collection and analysis of intercepts. The statutory problem with programmatic intercepts is not that they're unlawful, but rather that FISA ss written required individual suspicion for every captured communication, which is logistically intractable for this application.<p>The law as written limits the application of programmatic surveillance authorizations:<p><pre><code> An acquisition authorized under subsection (a)– (1) may not intentionally target any person known at the time of acquisition to be located in the United States; (2) may not intentionally target a person reasonably believed to be located outside the United States if the purpose of such acquisition is to target a particular, known person reasonably believed to be in the United States; (3) may not intentionally target a United States person reasonably believed to be located outside the United States; (4) may not intentionally acquire any communication as to which the sender and all intended recipients are known at the time of the acquisition to be located in the United States; and (5) shall be conducted in a manner consistent with the fourth amendment to the Constitution of the United States. </code></pre> None of these points are to suggest that Wyden is wrong to be seeking accountability for FISA warrants or that nobody should be concerned about foreign surveillance or that there aren't real concerns that foreign surveillance is capturing lots of domestic communication.
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mtgxover 12 years ago
I recommend reading Greenwald's long article on this. I think he explains better than anyone else the <i>absurdity</i> of the situation and the shamelessness of the senators who voted for FISA and against the amendments to it:<p><a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/28/fisa-feinstein-obama-democrats-eavesdropping" rel="nofollow">http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/28/fisa-fei...</a>
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notatoadover 12 years ago
It really scares me that the only issues able to find bipartisan support in congress seem to be the bills that benefit <i>nobody</i>. The republicans and democrats can never agree when there is good to be done, but when they get the chance to fuck over the average citizen they're full of cooperation.
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gueloover 12 years ago
For those in here defending no oversight of FISA, note that the 2008 FISA revision included retroactive immunity for telecoms that had already been caught illegally monitoring Americans. Since then the program has been operating in complete secrecy, though there have been hints by Senators privy to classified information that alarming levels of spying on ordinary Americans is taking place. There have also been periodic leaks and whistle blowers hinting at massive data gathering operations. I think there is a big likelihood that ALL of our private electronic communications are being illegally monitored. The complete opposition to congressional oversight is another big hint that illegal activity is going on.
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charonn0over 12 years ago
Sen. Feinstein, who I've voted for since I was 18, just lost a huge chunk of the respect I had for her.
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linuxhanslover 12 years ago
Sigh. Some things will never change. Surveillance will only increase, slowly. And like frogs in water that is slowly warmed we'll just all go along with it, until we're nicely cooked.<p>* There is no terrorist lurking under every rock and behind every corner.<p>* 9-11 will repeat itself, because the context is changed now. Passengers can no longer assume that they will get away alive by complying, so they will fight back.<p>* These things do not have to be carried out in secrecy.<p>* These measures are ineffective anyway. Anybody who is able to pull of planting an impactful bomb somewhere in the US can most definitely also figure out how to securely communicate or how to hide a communication.<p>Edit: Formatting
toki5over 12 years ago
I'm confused by the title of this article. Do FISA warrants not count as warrants?
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urzaover 12 years ago
<i>Jacob Appelbaum 29C3 Keynote: Not My Department</i><p><a href="http://youtu.be/QNsePZj_Yks" rel="nofollow">http://youtu.be/QNsePZj_Yks</a>
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eschulteover 12 years ago
Here is a more complete (but still short) article on the same topic [1], and here are the records of the votes for the passage of this bill, and the rejection of the three proposed ammendments (search for "00236" in the table) [2]. The second link is useful if you want to see how your representative voted.<p>[1] <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/29/us/politics/senate-votes-to-extend-electronic-surveillance-authority-under-fisa.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/29/us/politics/senate-votes-t...</a><p>[2] <a href="http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/vote_menu_112_2.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/vote_m...</a>
ISLover 12 years ago
Has FISA-authorized surveillance been found constitutional?
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alisnicover 12 years ago
This will sound silly, but after watching The Wire, I am tempted to support
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maeon3over 12 years ago
America is going to be destroyed by these ticks in government, these are the hyopthermia pains before the coming realization that we will not recover and be frozen to suffer death by slow freezing, this will take 20 years, but our great nation will fall.<p>As hackers we must prepare to plant the seed for a superior nation when we are overrun by communists, socialists, corruption in every layer of government and business, and bleed from so many ticks and parasites that the collective dies from an unexpected shock to our system.<p>this is our writing on the wall. you have been measured and found wanting.
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