Anti-Apple Anger

&#62;"Our technology choices reflect our values. People willing to yield some control to Apple for their needs are more likely to enjoy the benefits that Apple’s products bring by exerting that control. But people who don’t like being told what to do — people who believe they know what’s best for them, want full control over everything, and are willing to accept the resulting responsibilities — will be more comfortable with the alternatives."<p>This. A thousand times this.<p>Most people who know me consider me a rational guy. I'm the type that reads LessWrong, understands cognitive biases and knows who Kahneman &#38; Tversky are.<p>But I find myself with a deep...dislike of Apple. I fully admit that their products are superb. I admire, and respect the fanaticism and detail that goes into their products. As someone who loves money, I respect a company that rose from the ashes to having 100+ billion dollars in the bank.<p>But the notion that some guy deep in the bowels of Cupertino knows what I want more than I do makes me recoil violently. I think it's the libertarian in me. I have an inherent distrust of, and contempt for institutions, particularly when they want to decide what's 'right' for me. And the, dare I say <i>cultish</i> (ate least to me) behaviour of many Macolytes only makes me more wary. It's like the recent article proclaiming Apples 'genius' in acquiring Bill Nguyen's team after the Color acquisition. It reminds me of the North Korea articles I've been reading today.<p>Note that you'll never see any posts on HN from me engaging in any flamewars about Apple, because as an individualist, I believe that my preferences are exactly that: <i>my</i> preferences. Others are allowed to have theirs. I do find the sycophancy by the usual suspects distasteful, though.<p>Kudos to Marco for a very insightful piece.

A lot of the elitism (or at least what I consider elitism) from Gruber, Arment, Siegler et all is incredibly off-putting to me -- and I own a MacBook Air, iPad, and iPhone.<p>That being said, I think this is an incredibly well-reasoned and well-crafted explanation of the massive chasm between Apple 'fanboys' and Apple 'haters' -- and explains to me why, as a current zealot of the iOS ecosystem, I nonetheless find so much Apple commentary off-putting. Really great job by Marco and makes me much more inclined to subscribe to the Magazine.<p>Nothing's perfect for everyone. Some things are perfect for some people.

"But I never see Microsoft fans attacking Android fans, or vice versa. And the rise of anti-Apple anger has risen dramatically as Apple has been so successful in recent years."<p>Seriously? Is he completely blind. The amount anger aimed at Google/Android from the Microsoft camp over the past year has been deafening. For me it's the other way around. I no longer see Microsoft fans attacking Apple (like they used to). Now, they almost always attack Android/Google.<p>One more thing. If Apple didn't start the fanboy culture, they certainly took it up a notch. Apple fanboys/girls have been filling the internet with crap for years. Now that Android has become so popular, a lot of people that used to feel marginalized have decided to jump on the bandwagon and they are taking every opportunity to vent.<p>Overall I find this all quite disturbing but not for the same reasons as the original author who quite honestly, comes across as a bit of an elitist. He does make some good points when he explains that these are different platforms with different pros/cons and everyone will never agree to use the same platform. However, it is evident that he just doesn't know anything about anything other than Apple. The new Microsoft products (Windows Phone 8, Windows RT, Windows 8 App Store) are not open platforms. They are indeed just as closed as iOS (and much more so than OSX).<p>In fact I wish that all of the fanboys/girls online would spend their time discussing the real differences between these companies and what the net effect is on users. Maybe then we could get some things fixed. For example I am an Android user and, though I REALLY LIKE Apple products, I will not purchase and use a device that I cannot gain root access to. The way I see it, if it's Apple's device to control, than I am merely renting it. On the other hand, one thing that Apple has impressed me with is how they have taken away control from the phone companies. This is where I wish Google would fight harder. I want to see a real Nexus device on every carrier. Anyway, I feel these are things that merit real discussion, consensus building, online petitions, etc....<p>...fanboy bickering is pointless and deconstructive. In the end we, as users, need to forget about being fanboys and learn to be activists.

Did a horse with blinkers write the article?<p>&#62; <i>"I’ve noticed a very clear trend among tech sites I read: Android fans are unusually quick to fill the comment box with rage on articles that mention anything positive about Apple or its products. The reverse — Apple fans leaving angry comments on pro-Android articles — is almost completely absent from the sites I’ve seen"</i>

Much of the reaction to Apple can be attributed to the culture of contempt Apple fosters among its customers and communicated through its corporate actions. People respond negatively to being held in contempt. Film at 11.<p>From, "They have no taste" embodied in "I'm a Mac" to lawsuits against...well name a competitor they haven't sued...Apple has encouraged the disparagement of users of competing products. "Blue Screen" is most frequently used by Apple customers on the internet.<p>(hyperbole)<p>People get angry over Apple for the same reasons they get angry at Fox News - intellectual dishonesty for the sake of ideology. Only Gruber could attribute the rise of flat design aesthetics to some app few people own while ignoring Metro. PG accuses Microsoft of malfeasance in his essays on the Good.<p>It's never enough to love Apple. That love requires someone else be put down.<p>(/hyperbole)

The explanation for anti-Apple anger is far simpler, and doesn't need a reference to the actual products at all.<p>Anger comes from insecurity. People get angry when they feel threatened. People feel threats come from the top dog (this assessment is usually not very accurate, but it is human psychology). People who feel (whether rightly or wrongly) that their side is securely on top, don't bother getting angry.<p>Thus, in the nineties the Internet was full of shouting about 'micro$oft' whereas nobody ever bothered criticizing Apple, because everyone perceived that Microsoft was winning an Apple was losing. Today, Apple is perceived as the top dog and therefore a threat. I don't know who's going to be the top dog ten years from now, but I do know whoever it is, that's where the anger is going to be directed.

Ah my favorite topic, ok here we go:<p>I disagree.<p>Apple fans are the absolute worst. Not want to offend anyone here, but there's a certain type of delusional Apple fans, also known as members of the Apple Cult. The member strongly believes, that Apple products are perfect, flawless, and that every other competing product is inferior and can't comprehend why some people prefer other products. He/She will also <i>always</i> defend everything Apple does, spinning and twisting every news story to make Apple appear in a positive light and often directly contradict their previous stance, when Apple does something unexpected. These types also collect old Apple computers, like they're trophys, and pay for a cinema ticket to watch a Steve Jobs interview.<p>They glorify Apples quarterly earning report and don't seem to notice that it's actually them paying a $500 profit margin on an iPhone - or maybe they're just happy to do so.<p>I know, because I've met a few in real life, and the worst thing it's completely pointless to discuss anything related to Apples decisions with them - it's like talking against a wall. That's why they get called Sheeple, mindless worse ship of a corporation.<p>Disclaimer: I don't hate Apple, I'm happy we have 2 ecosystems, strictly talking about the fans here.

Marco got lost in diagnosis wonderland here. Anti-platform anger is like anything else in the adversarial world of online commenting. People from Michigan hate on Ohio State. People from Alabama hate on Obama. People with PCs hate on Macs. People with Xbox 360s hate on Playstations. People with Android hate on Apple.<p>If he doesn't see people with Apple hating on Android he isn't looking hard enough. True there are more people that hate on Apple but they are the biggest target now and that's to be expected just as there were more people hating on MS when they were the biggest target.

I think one phenomenon is that Android users have more experience with iOS than vice versa. I've been pretty much iOS/OS X-only since 2005/2006, I honestly don't know what's up in Android land these days. And, aside from an ill-fated tryst with Windows Phone 8, I'm not super interested in what's happening in Android land.<p>I don't feel compelled to comment on Android threads because I don't really care. But I feel like Android users have an idea of why they chose Android over iOS and feel compelled to educate people in these threads.

Oldie but i still laugh every time I read it. <a href="http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=macs_cant" rel="nofollow">http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=macs_cant</a>

I think Apple has positioned itself well in the day-to-day life of the average consumer, and they will likely hold that spot for some time to come.<p>Apple almost sold more iphones in the last 3 months than they did in the whole year of 2010. Yet to most people Apple is also doomed and everything they're doing is wrong.<p>Outside the circle of tech journalists and gadget aficionados, people want Apple products. I hear great things about the jellybean and samsung phones and I read anti-apple writings on the web all the time.<p>On the other hand, almost everyone I know with a smartphone has an iPhone. I don't think of myself as being in a bubble, I'm a student at a big college in a big city, and most of the people I come across have iPhones/ipods/even iPads. Families buy eachother apple products. When I see a non-iPhone user, they are more often not even using a smartphone, but waiting for the iPhone5 or 5S, in transition to getting an iPhone..<p>I don't doubt google created an amazing mobile OS, but I certainly don't see those phones on a day to day basis.

<i>Most people don’t care about technology choices as much as we do.</i><p>And this is where he lost me.

Let's be honest here... Nearly everyone who is passionate about one platform or another lives in some kind of glass house. Why does Arment feel it's necessary to throw stones like this? I realize some are reading this as a more "balanced" post, but I have to side with those considering this to be yet more elitism as I've come to expect.<p>Just as anecdotally, but no less data-driven, there is an obvious counter argument to his claim. I will concede his notion that Apple people don't spew anti-Android on pro-Android posts. That is because, from my own informal observations, Apple fans are too busy defending their own gates on the Apple support forums. It is unequivocally the most combative and abrasive "help forum" I've ever experienced.<p>As a person who owns and really enjoy Apple products (the MacBook Air, for my needs, is hands-down the best computer I've ever owned... and what I'm typing on at this moment), they're still far from perfect. Numerous times I've tried searching for resolutions to issues, and naturally, discussions.apple.com is typically a top result on Google. Even when finding an OP that precisely describes the issue I'm experiencing, more often than not, responses are along the exact lines of how Arment describes Apple's response:<p><i>"You don’t need that. Here, try this partial workaround or alternative solution instead."</i><p>Except, they usually don't "just work." And yes, I really do <i>need</i> what Apple broke. It took until 10.8.2 for Remote Desktop to work reliably again after Mountain Lion's initial release. I spent hours researching and found no reasonable workaround to get an piece of software written by Apple to work with Apple's OS. But yet, there were plenty of people asking why that was needed. I merely had to setup this convoluted alternative and I would be back in business... oh, wait. That still didn't work.<p>In my mind, this is worse than Arment's claim, as it's Apple people getting attacked by other Apple people for the heresy of wanting something to work. He's railing against the anger from Microsoft and Android, but he is okay with the cannibalism in the Apple camp?<p>I could go on, but I feel like I've already written a disproportionate amount more than I actually care about this guy's hypocritical, fact-less editorials. I guess my opinion finally got dragged low enough with this post to finally speak up. I would suggest he looks a little closer to the mothership before trying to paint this kind of picture. However, I can't fool myself into thinking he'd be the slightest bit open to the feedback.

Disagree. Anti-Apple crowd has at least partly a very solid and rational ground to stand upon.<p>Apple's much admired and followed direction is pointing exactly to the opposite way that most hackers should prefer and push towards.<p>Look at an iPhone 5 and a Raspberry Pi: one goes North and the other goes South. One had a heavy marketing and costs a lot, and cannot be opened without breaking it. The other the opposite: it isn't even sold in a "box"!<p>So, now, objectively, all things being equal, tell me frankly which one in an iPhone 5 and a Raspberry Pi should have the preference of hackers (in the wide sense)?<p>And don't tell me a Pi can't be used as a phone: I am well aware of that. My question is general, which device is more akin of hacker culture, and why?

Its important to note that Apple, being a hardware+software, solution receives hate from 2 sides.<p>Some people don't like OS X<p>Some people don't like paying 2x for the same hardware<p>I suspect that this alone contributes to a 2x increase in vitriol.

My issue is fundamentally similar to my issue with Google or Facebook. Information and money are power. Apple is the richest company on the planet. I'm uncomfortable with Apple gaining more money and, therefore, more power.<p>Their actions have often been highly disconcerting. I'm surprised that I don't see more people who consider Apple to be dangerous.<p>I don't really have issues with Apple products. In my experience, they've been of fine quality.

&#62; No, you can’t have that hardware keyboard or removable battery. No, you can’t install that app. No, you can’t have that feature."<p>"And yes, you can sit still in this drawer while I upgrade my custom rom on the other device. But don't worry, you are <i>so</i> elite. See you later."

&#62;Apple’s products say “no” a lot.<p>Which is why it's so depressing that so many wallets say "yes" to apple.

You can't blame the artist for their fans.